Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[katydid23]

I think all confessions are in per Gull.

Yes, they are all coming in as evidence. But I think there will still be many sidebar battles over 'HOW' they will be submitted to the jury. Will some be played for them to hear or will it be done by transcript ? Will some confessions be seen on prison video, but then testified to, since no audio? Will the typed confession letter to warden be shown on large video screen or be read by the warden to the jury?

Lots of upcoming discussions between both sides about HOW these confessions will be submitted to the jurors. IMO

 

[Justice101]

I think it was partially due to Libby’s more extensive injuries and the way in which each was redressed or not. That’s not my opinion though. The unusual way Abby was redressed IMO is not the act of a deliberate and methodical killer, instead it’s an indication of mental unwellness. IIRC the other reason is it was reported RA apologized for murdering Abby but not Libby. MOO

Crazy thought... though it really doesn't matter as to RA's innocence or guilt.

But if he killed them due to anger (and it was not a SA per se), could RA have taken their clothes off to make it look like a SA and then later became secondarily embarrassed to see them naked like that and that is why he tried to cover (Abby) (who looked more like a child) and maybe also had trouble redressing with their regular clothes because the clothes were wet? Ever tried to take off a wet T shirt? it is almost impossible. Putting one on would be about the same.

Based on the timing when he was apparently seen muddy and bloody, he had a long time to contemplate what he had done.

I just wonder if all this was related to his anger and that he truly had remorse immediately after and tried to clear his conscious somewhat by trying to redress them.

My personal feeling is that he may have initially got mad when they giggled like teenagers do all the time at everything. He thought it was directed at him, he followed them and pulled the gun on them and he knew he had committed a crime, needed to "take care" of the witnesses. By the time he had killed them, he maybe couldn't believe what he had done and tried to cover it up while also being ashamed for what he had done.

Maybe I am giving him way more credit than he deserves.

Sorry for all the opinions... but I cannot wrap my head around someone doing something like this.

 

[Justice101]

There are multiple reasons why I believe Libby was the main target that day. This is off the top of my head. I am sure there are more but it’s what I can remember at the moment.

1) His daughter looks like Libby

2) The brunt of the rage that day seems to have been aimed at Libby going by the wounds.

3) He dressed Abby but left Libby nude, which is degrading.

4) He apologized for killing Abby but didn’t say the same about Libby.

Is there a link to what was officially disclosed as to confessions? I'd like to read that if available.

 

[shonyakay]

There are multiple reasons why I believe Libby was the main target that day. This is off the top of my head. I am sure there are more but it’s what I can remember at the moment.

1) His daughter looks like Libby

2) The brunt of the rage that day seems to have been aimed at Libby going by the wounds.

3) He dressed Abby but left Libby nude, which is degrading.

4) He apologized for killing Abby but didn’t say the same about Libby.

Thanks. I guess what I was asking was why do you think Libby was targeted prior to that day?

All of these points could be explained by transpiring that particular day right before, during, and after the crimes. Imo.

 

[ClearAhead]

Crazy thought... though it really doesn't matter as to RA's innocence or guilt.

But if he killed them due to anger (and it was not a SA per se), could RA have taken their clothes off to make it look like a SA and then later became secondarily embarrassed to see them naked like that and that is why he tried to cover (Abby) (who looked more like a child) and maybe also had trouble redressing with their regular clothes because the clothes were wet? Ever tried to take off a wet T shirt? it is almost impossible. Putting one on would be about the same.

Based on the timing when he was apparently seen muddy and bloody, he had a long time to contemplate what he had done.

I just wonder if all this was related to his anger and that he truly had remorse immediately after and tried to clear his conscious somewhat by trying to redress them.

My personal feeling is that he may have initially got mad when they giggled like teenagers do all the time at everything. He thought it was directed at him, he followed them and pulled the gun on them and he knew he had committed a crime, needed to "take care" of the witnesses. By the time he had killed them, he maybe couldn't believe what he had done and tried to cover it up while also being ashamed for what he had done.

Maybe I am giving him way more credit than he deserves.

Sorry for all the opinions... but I cannot wrap my head around someone doing something like this.

Yes it’s a good thing that motive isn’t required to be proven. And unlike a movie or novel, even after a conviction often the motive remains unknown, especially in non domestic homicides. But as humans I think we always like to have all the answers, no lose ends. Even if catfishing is involved the same unanswered question remains, how or why did that go one step further to become targeted murders?

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Is there a link to what was officially disclosed as to confessions? I'd like to read that if available.

No, nothing such as confession transcripts have been released. Just some references made during the recent 3-day hearings the regarding the D’s unsuccessful motion to have them tossed.

This is a brief summary from that hearing.

Did Richard Allen confess to killing two Delphi teens? Here's what we learned

Witnesses testified this week about Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's statements and behavior following his arrest.

www.indystar.com

 

[sunshineray]

There are multiple reasons why I believe Libby was the main target that day. This is off the top of my head. I am sure there are more but it’s what I can remember at the moment.

1) His daughter looks like Libby

2) The brunt of the rage that day seems to have been aimed at Libby going by the wounds.

3) He dressed Abby but left Libby nude, which is degrading.

4) He apologized for killing Abby but didn’t say the same about Libby.

Yes, Libby resisted, we know that from the blood spatter expert testimony. But it seems Abby didn't fit RA's agenda so had to be restored, given dignity in death while Libby was put on display, at first, to humiliate in death. I say at first because I do believe partially covering her with leaves was because the killer wanted to hide what he did to Libby after the fact. Then he thought to cover it all up. I think the branches were harder to find in the immediate area and he was interrupted in his covering up by DG calling out. Then it was all self-preservation on his mind and he forgot about camouflaging what he did. JMO

 

[shonyakay]

Yes it’s a good thing that motive isn’t required to be proven. And unlike a movie or novel, even after a conviction often the motive remains unknown, especially in non domestic homicides. But as humans I think we always like to have all the answers, no lose ends. Even if catfishing is involved the same unanswered question remains, how or why did that go one step further to become targeted murders?

JMO

I think this was a sexually motivated crime. The Unified Command Center also believed this.
NM gave RA's motive on Cross with Dr.PM.

 

[Megnut]

Trying to relate... to the witnesses...

I have had the experience of slowed driving where a car passes me, then up ahead that car is involved in a crash. Unsettling. I can't fathom what it's like to learn "you" were the last and another "you", the first to cross (the general area of) a crime scene. Projected guilt, as if one could have known and prevented it; retrograde fear, that it could have been you, that you were that close to evil and didn't even know it; hyperawareness, a kind of PTSD reaction to virtually any
situation, what's ahead, what's behind -- or more accurately, who's ahead, who's behind; even an exhausting vigilance, forcing the brain to memorize every passerby. It could eat your brain.

He destroyed Abby and Libby that day bit there's just no shortage of hurt. So many, deeply impacted by the actions of one man. That's a staggering level of self-centeredness.

His life, such as it is, continues. Food, visits, phone calls. Still the center of his sick universe.

Praying for the jury to come -- for their dedication and time. This will change them too.

They were little girls.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841150729374847173

It's now been 2 months since #WTHR first asked Judge Frances Gull to release publicly-filed exhibits introduced during pre-trial hearings in the #Delphi murders case. The judge said she won't release the exhibits for months. Last night we filed a legal motion to change that. 1/

Court exhibits can be introduced in 2 ways: with a request to seal the exhibits to protect sensitive info or not under seal, which means they become public records available to the public & media. The state and defense introduced DOZENS of exhibits--nearly all NOT under seal. 2/

On Aug 2 (one day after the hearings in Delphi), WTHR requested access to all of the publicly-filed exhibits under Indiana's Access to Public Records Act. A few weeks later, the court told me Gull would release the info only AFTER the trial. We believe this violates APRA. 3/

So we tried another route: refiling the request in late August under Indiana's Access to Court Records rules, which also say publicly-filed exhibits & other court docs should be open to public inspection. We reiterated we want to inspect only the exhibits NOT filed under seal. 4/

WTHR also offered to travel to Allen County to inspect the records in the judge's courtroom. We received a formal reply from Judge Gull, again stating she would not make the records available until after the trial, delaying release even further if Richard Allen is convicted. 5/

Judge Gull is responsible for ensuring a fair trial for Richard Allen & the victim's families. We do not believe violating the right of the public and press to access public records is necessary to ensure a fair trial. That is why we chose to file this motion. 6/

We are grateful for the partnership of other media & media organizations (local, state and national) to join WTHR in a group effort to ensure the public gets to track the #Delphi proceedings & not have to wait months to access info that should be public now under state law. 7/

Here is the full motion filed by WTHR and the coalition of other media organizations. We are hopeful the judge will permit timely access to both the pre-trial and trial exhibits as required under APRA and ACR rules. 8/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841157138619453857

 

[shonyakay]

It was a sexually motivated crime with the murders occurring before the assault(s) could take place, a box cutter was the murder weapon, Abby apparently wasn't redressed AFTER she died, and the sticks were used to cover up the bodies.

All of this can be ascertained from
NM's cross of Dr.PM ....


Motive / Sexual Assault

Q. Fair to say a crime could be sexually motivated, but before the sexual assault occurs, the crime is committed; fair?
A. Could you say that again?
Q. Sure. The crime initially could be sexually motivated, but before any kind of sexual assault occurs, the person kills the victim.
A. Yes.
Q. If the Defendant said that, would that be important information for you to review before you made your analysis?


Murder weapon / Box cutter

Q. Do you know what murder weapon was used to kill the victims?

Q. Did you assume, from the evidence that you saw from the Defense, that it was a knife?

Q. If a knife wasn't used, would that change your interpretation of the crime scene?

Q. What if it was a box cutter?


Victims clothing / Abby dressed BEFORE being killed

Q. Do you agree that A.W., her body is right where she died, it was not moved?

Q. But you're assuming she (AW) was redressed after she died.

(Further) Well, if she got dressed before she (AW) died, there wouldn't be any positioning of the body.


Covering up Crime / Sticks

Q. If the Defendant made a statement that the branches are there intended to cover the bodies, would that change your opinion?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/allenperlmutteraug1-pdf.530071/

 

[sunshineray]

Crazy thought... though it really doesn't matter as to RA's innocence or guilt.

But if he killed them due to anger (and it was not a SA per se), could RA have taken their clothes off to make it look like a SA and then later became secondarily embarrassed to see them naked like that and that is why he tried to cover (Abby) (who looked more like a child) and maybe also had trouble redressing with their regular clothes because the clothes were wet? Ever tried to take off a wet T shirt? it is almost impossible. Putting one on would be about the same.

Based on the timing when he was apparently seen muddy and bloody, he had a long time to contemplate what he had done.

I just wonder if all this was related to his anger and that he truly had remorse immediately after and tried to clear his conscious somewhat by trying to redress them.

My personal feeling is that he may have initially got mad when they giggled like teenagers do all the time at everything. He thought it was directed at him, he followed them and pulled the gun on them and he knew he had committed a crime, needed to "take care" of the witnesses. By the time he had killed them, he maybe couldn't believe what he had done and tried to cover it up while also being ashamed for what he had done.

Maybe I am giving him way more credit than he deserves.

Sorry for all the opinions... but I cannot wrap my head around someone doing something like this.

I think his re-dressing of Abby (either letting her put pants on or RA doing it after he mortally wounded her) and his putting leaves covering Libby's chest area could show some after the fact remorse. That may be what ISP Carter was referring to at the April 2019 PC when he mentioned the killer having some little bit of conscience.

 

[iamshadow21]

It was a sexually motivated crime with the murders occurring before the assault(s) could take place, a box cutter was the murder weapon, Abby apparently wasn't redressed AFTER she died, and the sticks were used to cover up the bodies.

All of this can be ascertained from
NM's cross of Dr.PM ....


Motive / Sexual Assault

Q. Fair to say a crime could be sexually motivated, but before the sexual assault occurs, the crime is committed; fair?
A. Could you say that again?
Q. Sure. The crime initially could be sexually motivated, but before any kind of sexual assault occurs, the person kills the victim.
A. Yes.
Q. If the Defendant said that, would that be important information for you to review before you made your analysis?


Murder weapon / Box cutter

Q. Do you know what murder weapon was used to kill the victims?

Q. Did you assume, from the evidence that you saw from the Defense, that it was a knife?

Q. If a knife wasn't used, would that change your interpretation of the crime scene?

Q. What if it was a box cutter?


Victims clothing / Abby dressed BEFORE being killed

Q. Do you agree that A.W., her body is right where she died, it was not moved?

Q. But you're assuming she (AW) was redressed after she died.

(Further) Well, if she got dressed before she (AW) died, there wouldn't be any positioning of the body.


Covering up Crime / Sticks

Q. If the Defendant made a statement that the branches are there intended to cover the bodies, would that change your opinion?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/allenperlmutteraug1-pdf.530071/

Does anyone else think that the witness used the wrong word when describing her expertise? She said Norse paganists were polygamists, and then went on to describe them having many gods. That's polytheism. Polygamists have lots of wives.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Is there a link to what was officially disclosed as to confessions? I'd like to read that if available.

Some were testified about by ISP Harshman (who listened and viewed all the media confessions) at the 3 day hearings. Here's a link to those.

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Iphi]

If he was meeting LG that day, then how was this arranged? The D tells us in Franks 1, FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

View attachment 534705
So by what means would he have been able to pre-arrange? Unless he used some phone that LE never found and a username / profile they couldn't connect him to?

Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. (But burden of proof is of course on the prosecution.)

 

[ClearAhead]

I’m recalling that LE had earlier stated the murders of Libby and Abby were NOT targeted. If it’s true catfishing was involved, they were targeted and their murders preplanned. Of course LE often change their opinion as the investigation moved on, if they found a CSAM connection. MOO

This is a snippet from a transcript of a Down the Hill podcast.

HLN’s Down the Hill Podcast – Comments

You may listen and subscribe to the podcast series here: HLN Down the Hill Podcast I’m listening to the Down the Hill podcast and making comments here. I didn’t want to start a new page but it’s t…

truthtellersweb.wordpress.com

Carter states that had they just went the other way… This tells us that this was not a targeted crime. He clearly implied that had they gone the other direction this would not have happened. It was a crime of opportunity.

 

[dkaras]

If he was meeting LG that day, then how was this arranged? The D tells us in Franks 1, FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

View attachment 534705
So by what means would he have been able to pre-arrange? Unless he used some phone that LE never found and a username / profile they couldn't connect him to?

JMO...I am leaning towards thinking there is a connection via the AShots account.

IIRC, the owner of that account (KK?) was letting other people use it (maybe for money?). And KK was catfishing LG using that account. Maybe BG was monitoring that account and saw that KK was supposed to meet LG, hoped to get there first. (I initially thought maybe KK arranged the meet for BG, but I believe that's been ruled out? Please correct me if I'm wrong!)

The AS account may not be DIRECTLY connected to RA's KNOWN devices. The FM is careful with words, and states "phone" singular, at least in your screenshot. But weren't there a few phones taken from RA's residence? Maybe not all of those were registered in RA's name, maybe they were burners, and maybe one of those had a connection to the AS account.

Anyway, just a theory. I don't think BG just happened across those girls. I think he knew they would be there.

All JMO!

 

[Ravenmoon]

In the beginning, I thought Libby was the target because of the leaked texts that got out regarding the alleged condition of their bodies.

I noticed when I first started posting here there seemed to be a common agreement between posters here that Libby was the target.

Could you share why you believe this to be the case?

JMO:

Libby was left nude and her killing was ( from what information is available) was overkill.

Also, he said he was sorry for killing Abby. There is no information that says he has remorse for the death of Libby.

AJMO

EBM to add that Libby seemed to have had a large online presence. Abby had one account on Facebook that we know of and it was a secret from her mom.

Also, I am seeing that Salah has already stated basically the same thing. I have a tendency to respond before reading through the entire thread first. Sorry about that!

 

[Argonaut]

Does anyone remember where Abbey was living at the time of her murder? It seems I remember that she and he mother lived along the road that ended where the private driveway went under the Monon bridge.

Was R.A. a deer hunter?

 

[Ravenmoon]

Thanks. I guess what I was asking was why do you think Libby was targeted prior to that day?

All of these points could be explained by transpiring that particular day right before, during, and after the crimes. Imo.

Completely my opinion:

Delphi is a small town. I have almost no doubt that RA had seen Libby around often.

I think that he was watching her on different social media apps and possibly ( not sure) connected with her this way.

I honestly think that he became obsessed with her and was stalking her.
JMO