ABC producer paid for George, Cindy Anthony to stay at the Ritz

[debs]

This has been a great thread for some awesome debate. I think it is telling that it took a media outlet to comfort and house the A's, feed them, etc., after they returned from their propaganda junket in California (searching for Caylee right?) While it is irrelevent that they stayed at the Ritz, or ate caviar by the shovel full, what is disgusting is that they obviously have no one else. It says a lot to me that this family has no one to go to. secretsquirrel stated that CA's parents were not immediate family and therefore going to them was not an option??? Cindy is Caylee's grandparent (as per my above post) yet she could not go to her own mother for shelter or comfort. I think this is indicative of a greater family dysfunction than just the "A" family of 4. What is wholly unsettling is that, like other posters have so well stated, their granddaughter had just been found dead and they had a business meeting? I find it appalling that the media would insinuate itself into this moment AND that the A's allowed it. The statistics tell us that hundreds of thousands of children go missing......how many circuses have we seen? I can think of only a couple, and they were circuses for similar reasons.....the media and the family dynamic of the missing child (e.g., JonBenet, Laci and Connor Peterson, Maddy Mann). So when the media gets ahold of a nutjob family like the A's we get the circus. If the media gets ahold of a family like say, the Smart family, you don't get a circus. So I blame both the media and the Anthony's for creating the debacle and taking the focus off of precious Caylee.

You, like Friday, have an amazing compassion. The Anthony-4 are insular. Their lives are their secret. They allow no one in who would dare to question them. It forces the hand of the extended family to accept them on their terms or be cut out, as we were given insight into per the emails from Shirley to her sister and Rick and Cindy. In short, it was a lot of "go along to get along" with the Anthony-4 for the extended family. I don't know that Cindy and George had no one else to turn to the night they returned from L.A. All we know is where they went, and with whom they met. It was their choice. They were not forced in any manner to sit at table with people with a business interest in their story. Instead of potentially being comforted by their extended family, they chose this.

 

[trafficsUP66]

If it's too late for you to edit maybe a mod could help you?
I was not trying to criticize you, only trying to keep on track,
no offense was intended.:blowkiss:

OH no, I took no offense!!

I appreciate very much that you pointed this out!!!: )

 

[debs]

snipped for space

I think they did know, their house was being searched and treated as a crime scene, how could they not know?

Then why the press statement about holding hope that it was not Caylee.

 

[lin]

Because I've often been so critical of the A's, my conscience demands that I speak up in their defense about a couple of things here.

I don't think it's really strange that they went to a hotel instead of going home, or that they dined with the others in the hotel's restraurant. Unfortunately, I have some personal insight from experience about what may have been going on with them at that point. It's perfectly possible they didn't want to go home because they just couldn't bear it, yet. They'd spent 5 debilitating months there, living on hope and fear, comforting themselves with Caylee's bedroom and toys, and they'd just discovered her body had been rotting right down the street. Last but not least, they also knew the media would be swarming all over the place if they went home.

It's also likely that they were too drained and emotionally battered to do anything except follow the orders/suggestions of others like heartbroken puppets, i.e., "You need to eat...We should eat in the hotel...Come downstairs to dinner...You shouldn't go home yet...Stay at the hotel another night..."

I'm puzzled by the fact that Cindy wanted to spend time that night with DC instead of George, but maybe he was asleep already.

You may very well be correct and I generally agree with your posts. We can't know for sure. I think the reason that some took offense to the Ritz and Norman's being set up through MB is that it fits the picture some have of the A's. I, for one, can easily imagine CA making demands even at a time like this. "If they don't want to help us, we'll talk with another station. Tell them we want the Ritz, not the Hilton. And tell them we'll be expecting a large dinner for everyone. We'll have Milsteads, Lee, Mallory and George, should we call ____?"

At least I admit the above is pure speculation, while many just make statements of fact as to the circumstances, usually sympathetic to the A's. It may not have happened anything like I suggested but with her personality, it wouldn't be a surprise to many of us to find out it did. And let's not forget, Caylee's remains were not identified at that time. They did not have a similar reaction when LP's divers claimed to find bones in the lake. Yes, they had to go somewhere but was this what was offered or was it demanded or negotiated?

If they were so upset as many assume, why were they surrounding themselves with PR, press and attorneys rather than family or seclusion? I've asked people to leave for much less pressing family circumstances. Is this whom one shares their "grief" with on the 'darkest day of their lives'? Sounds way too much like business as usual and also raises the question if this hasn't been the way it's been going for quite a while on their seemingly never ending media blitz.

Some very decent, compassionate posters, like you did in your post, imo tend to project their own experiences and feelings onto the A's. Also jmo, but the A's are not decent, compassionate people so that projection is going greatly skew things. Just about anything, in a microcosm, can be explained or forgiven. When one considers the totality of the circumstances, however, a true picture emerges. I don't see posters criticizing them for eating; I read it as criticism for continuing to be grasping, greedy, maniuplative people that will even use this "news" of possible remains of their grandchild to further their own agendas. At the Ritz, no less.

Of course, if we were to offer just about any poster here, under similar circumstances, a hotel room whether it be the Ritz or Holiday Inn, when they're distraught and cajoled, they're likely to accept. We may further convince them to have dinner at a place in the hotel, Norman's, Ruby Tuesday, whatever's there. A gathering including their adult children. But would most posters here also have the media, the PI's, the PR person and their attorneys at such a grief stricken gathering?

At the beginning of this case I had a great deal of compassion for the A's. I engaged in arguments in their defense, even with my own mother. It is their actions that eroded that sympathy. For anyone else in their circumstances, yes, I would have a great deal of empathy, compassion, sympathy. I can feel sorrow for the families of other murderers. But the A's are not like other people, imo. I can no longer see them as sympathetic victims; more like victimizers, particularly CA.

Just to clarify: I am in no way at all meaning to imply any negative implication toward any poster who has compassion for the A's. In fact, I think it is their own good nature, morals and experiences that they may be projecting on to the A's who, imo, are very unlike, maybe polar opposites of, those posters who are able to maintain compassion for them.

Sorry to toss all this out at you. Your post caused my thoughts to coalesce but it's something that's been nagging in my subconscious for a while. It's been a long time since they used up their last 'Victim - get out of responsibility free card' with me.

 

[Friday]

Friday, your compassion is insurmountable and abundant. However, the Anthony's did not know at the time that it was Caylee. Just that a small child's remains had been found. While the average bear would assume it to be Caylee, the statement the Anthony family put out regarding the find was that they "are realistic but continue to hope and pray that these remains are not those of our precious granddaughter, Caylee...." and then they go on to ask for prayers for Caylee "and all other missing children." In effect, despite overwhelming evidence to the possibility that it was indeed Caylee, they still held out hope that it was not.

Casey reacted to Padilla's find with disregard and Cindy charged down to J Blanchard Park like an avenging warrior, making a scene. Casey reacts to this news needing a sedative and Cindy reacts with quiet resignation. George reacts to both in a similar manner, angry. Cindy states she had someone looking in there a month earlier and the question WHY? is still large in this case. Their quiet acceptance of the word of remains that close to their home is contrary to the fact that there was someone out there in the same spot at Cindy's behest. Their addition of the hope they were not Caylee's remains are disingenuous, because they'd sent someone to look there.

The people with the Anthony's that night at the Ritz are not friends. They all have a vested interest in the case. George and Cindy and Lee and Mallory have with them people who are looking to make a name for themselves, or a dollar. There is just no other way to put that. It becomes a business meeting, with those who have a monetary interest outnumbering those with an emotional interest. It is a business meeting, regardless of the emotional state the Anthony's may have been in. What they ate and where they ate it is never the point. Who was with them, is. Whatever association and friendship that may have developed between the Anthony's and KFN and MB, it is still primarily a business venture for them. Jose serves no one but Casey, and ABC serves nothing but the media interest.

I find their reactions to be just as important as Casey's, for the fact that they'd sent someone to conduct a search in the very area. They met with people who had a business interest in being with them. I do not (despite Chilly's attempts to make my statements seem as though I do) care where they stayed, how long they stayed there, what they ate, and who paid for it. I do care about their reactions and their statements. I do care about the people who they were with and what those people could possibly get out of such a meeting at such a time. I do care that even if nothing more happened than that they ate and slept, what the Anthony's again have done is to put themselves into a position where people notice an inappropriateness. No one else was present or privy to what happened at the meeting. It could have been all innocent largesse (as I said before) on the part of ABC. Just because no story has yet come out from ABC does not mean that one will never come out. But again, those outside the family that attended have a business interest. And that is where the inappropriateness comes into play for me.

As I said before, there may be an innocent explanation there. Somewhere. But as of the night of that meeting at the Ritz, they did not have any confirmation that the remains found were those of Caylee and indeed their statement later on suggest they still hold hope they were not. So if they're broken down with grief and incapable of being in their home surrounded by her memory, I have to ask why. IF as they say they do not know, why must they avoid her memory there in the home? IF as they say they hold out hope, why did they have someone there looking a month earlier? IF as they say they want privacy, why were they meeting that night with someone from the media?

Now that I've read your post in opposion to my post, I can only say that you have a very agreeable way of disagreeing. :blowkiss:

 

[Gma Kat]

You, like Friday, have an amazing compassion. The Anthony-4 are insular. Their lives are their secret. They allow no one in who would dare to question them. It forces the hand of the extended family to accept them on their terms or be cut out, as we were given insight into per the emails from Shirley to her sister and Rick and Cindy. In short, it was a lot of "go along to get along" with the Anthony-4 for the extended family. I don't know that Cindy and George had no one else to turn to the night they returned from L.A. All we know is where they went, and with whom they met. It was their choice. They were not forced in any manner to sit at table with people with a business interest in their story. Instead of potentially being comforted by their extended family, they chose this.

Thank you for your kind words debs, I have to perform a snarkinectomy before hitting the "submit reply" button. I think your insight into the A family is spot on. Whether they chose to be alone or had no option still reflects the same image doesn't it. Sad, sad, sad.

 

[lin]

As a PS to an already over-long post and to further clarify:

For an example of what I was trying to explain above, Chilly Willy is a very well liked poster on this forum, even though Chilly Willy frequently expresses opinions diametrically opposed to the majority of posters on a given thread. Chilly Willy seems to have a very good heart and that is recognized by even those that disagree. That a poster has a big enough heart to forgive the A's and defend their actions is not a bad thing. It's just something I don't share.

Yeah, Chilly, I went there!

 

[lin]

IMO, she was not grateful at all. Caylee being found meant the donation jars for her search had to be put away, all of the internet
donation solicitations would end.
I have never heard Cindy publicly thank Kronk, actually, I don't think "thank you" is even part of her vocabulary.
It was ABC, not CBS, btw. Let's not involve an innocent network.

Exactly. The arrogance and sense of entitlement is repugnant. The vengeful attitude towards those trying to help, such as Kronk, LE, etc. is inexplicable and other things one shouldn't post on a nice forum.

 

[Gma Kat]

*snipped for space by gma kat*

At the beginning of this case I had a great deal of compassion for the A's. I engaged in arguments in their defense, even with my own mother. It is their actions that eroded that sympathy. For anyone else in their circumstances, yes, I would have a great deal of empathy, compassion, sympathy. I can feel sorrow for the families of other murderers. But the A's are not like other people, imo. I can no longer see them as sympathetic victims; more like victimizers, particularly CA.

Just to clarify: I am in no way at all meaning to imply any negative implication toward any poster who has compassion for the A's. In fact, I think it is their own good nature, morals and experiences that they may be projecting on to the A's who, imo, are very unlike, maybe polar opposites of, those posters who are able to maintain compassion for them.

Sorry to toss all this out at you. Your post caused my thoughts to coalesce but it's something that's been nagging in my subconscious for a while. It's been a long time since they used up their last 'Victim - get out of responsibility free card' with me.

Sorry to snip your excellent post, but just wanted to save time.
I TOTALLY agree with your post, especially the bolded portion. It's like all people start out at a 10 with me and take themselves down with their actions. The A's are at -5........

 

[lin]

Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
I wouldn't worry about another OJ situation, Patty. I don't think the world will ever again see such a huge miscarriage of justice. At least I hope not. Casey is definitely no OJ.

BTW, from all that I've heard, OJ's mom, Eunice, was a wonderful person.

Originally posted by Lin:

Robert Blake

My 2 cents: Phil Spector, trial #1

Thanks. Let's just hope that #2 finally ends with a conviction. Tuba, in the astrology thread, made an interesting observation along this line:

Very early last fall, I was fretting over defense experts who were appearing in charts as disserving the public and unfriendly to the juristic spirit of fairness and responsibility underlying court proceedings. I was looking toward the future and the future is now. Much will be made at trial of the NAS reports on investigatory findings. Defense will lean back and rely on the attack as L.K.B. and commentators like Judy Weintraub are actively doing now.

Ever greater refinements and surer proofs will be required to combat the broadside dismissal of "junk science". This is extremely costly in time, effort and materials mounted to meet the challenge from the defense. The prosecution has true wizards of science at its disposal but demands on them issue from other quarters as well as the Anthony case and there is the question as to how much energy can be fairly devoted to this one trial. Nevertheless, the findings and all of the mental & physical labor they represent must be protected from wild and dramatic but sometimes calculated onslaught. The only means to justifying the effort required to defeat continued assault on the investigation results is to implicitly present this case as an exemplar.

To which I responded, in part:

...

I truly hope, whether it be your thought or written in the stars, that you're correct and some decisions will be reached to set an iron clad precedent ensuring that justice cannot be bought by the OJ's, Robert Blakes and KCs of the world. From your keyboard to God's monitor.

Again, I certainly hope that's another outcome of this case, lessening the ability to buy an acquittal.

 

[Gma Kat]

As a PS to an already over-long post and to further clarify:

For an example of what I was trying to explain above, Chilly Willy is a very well liked poster on this forum, even though Chilly Willy frequently expresses opinions diametrically opposed to the majority of posters on a given thread. Chilly Willy seems to have a very good heart and that is recognized by even those that disagree. That a poster has a big enough heart to forgive the A's and defend their actions is not a bad thing. It's just something I don't share.

Yeah, Chilly, I went there!

You always know a thread will be interesting with a little ChillyWilly present! If it were'nt for the opposing opinions we share and digest this would be just another bashing forum, for which I am proud to say it is not. I have enjoyed this thread more than any thread in a long time because of the polar views shared from RESPECTED fellow WS'rs. I can honestly say that I am one of the biggest A bashers around, but reading the posts can make me look at everything different and once in awhile I actually change my opinion. So Lin your point is well taken and thanks for voicing it.

 

[DaughterAlice]

I haven't read most of the other posts, but I hold no grudges against them for staying at the Ritz, esp since they weren't paying. I think it was nice of ABC, assuming there really was no motive behind it. If I were in their position, I don't think I'd give a carp where I stayed. I would be a total zombie, whether you led me to the ritz or a janitor's closet.

 

[OneLostGrl]

As a PS to an already over-long post and to further clarify:

For an example of what I was trying to explain above, Chilly Willy is a very well liked poster on this forum, even though Chilly Willy frequently expresses opinions diametrically opposed to the majority of posters on a given thread. Chilly Willy seems to have a very good heart and that is recognized by even those that disagree. That a poster has a big enough heart to forgive the A's and defend their actions is not a bad thing. It's just something I don't share.

Yeah, Chilly, I went there!

Hey, you are able to recognize things in people that others here may not be able to. I know that I am.. seems Friday is too. While I fall for none of what the Anthony's say or do, I do have sympathy for what they are going through... I pray they get the help they need- (I'm proof that people can get better) I have a huge heart (ask any of my friends here on WS), I just recognize dysfunction and I'm not a sucker.

 

[Gma Kat]

P.S. - If the DA in the Phil Spector case can't convict then we need to do away with the jury system as we know it...sorry for the OT....but come one, that's the most competent DA I've ever seen in my 30-something years in the legal profession (oops, did I really just out my age?)......ITA with your post Lin, great find on the tuba post.

 

[Gma Kat]

I haven't read most of the other posts, but I hold no grudges against them for staying at the Ritz, esp since they weren't paying. I think it was nice of ABC, assuming there really was no motive behind it. If I were in their position, I don't think I'd give a carp where I stayed. I would be a total zombie, whether you led me to the ritz or a janitor's closet.

Perhaps the janitor's closet is where this meeting belonged...

 

[lin]

Friday, your compassion is insurmountable and abundant. However, the Anthony's did not know at the time that it was Caylee. Just that a small child's remains had been found. While the average bear would assume it to be Caylee, the statement the Anthony family put out regarding the find was that they "are realistic but continue to hope and pray that these remains are not those of our precious granddaughter, Caylee...." and then they go on to ask for prayers for Caylee "and all other missing children." In effect, despite overwhelming evidence to the possibility that it was indeed Caylee, they still held out hope that it was not.

Casey reacted to Padilla's find with disregard and Cindy charged down to J Blanchard Park like an avenging warrior, making a scene. Casey reacts to this news needing a sedative and Cindy reacts with quiet resignation. George reacts to both in a similar manner, angry. Cindy states she had someone looking in there a month earlier and the question WHY? is still large in this case. Their quiet acceptance of the word of remains that close to their home is contrary to the fact that there was someone out there in the same spot at Cindy's behest. Their addition of the hope they were not Caylee's remains are disingenuous, because they'd sent someone to look there.

The people with the Anthony's that night at the Ritz are not friends. They all have a vested interest in the case. George and Cindy and Lee and Mallory have with them people who are looking to make a name for themselves, or a dollar. There is just no other way to put that. It becomes a business meeting, with those who have a monetary interest outnumbering those with an emotional interest. It is a business meeting, regardless of the emotional state the Anthony's may have been in. What they ate and where they ate it is never the point. Who was with them, is. Whatever association and friendship that may have developed between the Anthony's and KFN and MB, it is still primarily a business venture for them. Jose serves no one but Casey, and ABC serves nothing but the media interest.

I find their reactions to be just as important as Casey's, for the fact that they'd sent someone to conduct a search in the very area. They met with people who had a business interest in being with them. I do not (despite Chilly's attempts to make my statements seem as though I do) care where they stayed, how long they stayed there, what they ate, and who paid for it. I do care about their reactions and their statements. I do care about the people who they were with and what those people could possibly get out of such a meeting at such a time. I do care that even if nothing more happened than that they ate and slept, what the Anthony's again have done is to put themselves into a position where people notice an inappropriateness. No one else was present or privy to what happened at the meeting. It could have been all innocent largesse (as I said before) on the part of ABC. Just because no story has yet come out from ABC does not mean that one will never come out. But again, those outside the family that attended have a business interest. And that is where the inappropriateness comes into play for me.

As I said before, there may be an innocent explanation there. Somewhere. But as of the night of that meeting at the Ritz, they did not have any confirmation that the remains found were those of Caylee and indeed their statement later on suggest they still hold hope they were not. So if they're broken down with grief and incapable of being in their home surrounded by her memory, I have to ask why. IF as they say they do not know, why must they avoid her memory there in the home? IF as they say they hold out hope, why did they have someone there looking a month earlier? IF as they say they want privacy, why were they meeting that night with someone from the media?

Excellent post, thanks.

 

[Gma Kat]

Hey, you are able to recognize things in people that others here may not be able to. I know that I am.. seems Friday is too. While I fall for none of what the Anthony's say or do, I do have sympathy for what they are going through... I pray they get the help they need- (I'm proof that people can get better) I have a huge heart (ask any of my friends here on WS), I just recognize dysfunction and I'm not a sucker.

Gma Kat here vouching for OneLostGirls big heart......

 

[lin]

Deb, I really applaud your post. One silver lining that might offset many of our feelings of inappropriateness and downright disgust (mine) is that one day the ABC person at that meeting may be called to testify about what took place there -- at the trial of CA, if it happens. May sound far-fetched but I think it's plausible. Nothing is over until it's over.

or JB's trial/hearing before ethics committee...

 

[RR0004]

Perhaps the janitor's closet is where this meeting belonged...

IMO. it sure did belong behind closed doors.

 

[Friday]

You may very well be correct and I generally agree with your posts. We can't know for sure. I think the reason that some took offense to the Ritz and Norman's being set up through MB is that it fits the picture some have of the A's. I, for one, can easily imagine CA making demands even at a time like this. "If they don't want to help us, we'll talk with another station. Tell them we want the Ritz, not the Hilton. And tell them we'll be expecting a large dinner for everyone. We'll have Milsteads, Lee, Mallory and George, should we call ____?"

At least I admit the above is pure speculation, while many just make statements of fact as to the circumstances, usually sympathetic to the A's. It may not have happened anything like I suggested but with her personality, it wouldn't be a surprise to many of us to find out it did. And let's not forget, Caylee's remains were not identified at that time. They did not have a similar reaction when LP's divers claimed to find bones in the lake. Yes, they had to go somewhere but was this what was offered or was it demanded or negotiated?

If they were so upset as many assume, why were they surrounding themselves with PR, press and attorneys rather than family or seclusion? I've asked people to leave for much less pressing family circumstances. Is this whom one shares their "grief" with on the 'darkest day of their lives'? Sounds way too much like business as usual and also raises the question if this hasn't been the way it's been going for quite a while on their seemingly never ending media blitz.

Some very decent, compassionate posters, like you did in your post, imo tend to project their own experiences and feelings onto the A's. Also jmo, but the A's are not decent, compassionate people so that projection is going greatly skew things. Just about anything, in a microcosm, can be explained or forgiven. When one considers the totality of the circumstances, however, a true picture emerges. I don't see posters criticizing them for eating; I read it as criticism for continuing to be grasping, greedy, maniuplative people that will even use this "news" of possible remains of their grandchild to further their own agendas. At the Ritz, no less.

Of course, if we were to offer just about any poster here, under similar circumstances, a hotel room whether it be the Ritz or Holiday Inn, when they're distraught and cajoled, they're likely to accept. We may further convince them to have dinner at a place in the hotel, Norman's, Ruby Tuesday, whatever's there. A gathering including their adult children. But would most posters here also have the media, the PI's, the PR person and their attorneys at such a grief stricken gathering?

At the beginning of this case I had a great deal of compassion for the A's. I engaged in arguments in their defense, even with my own mother. It is their actions that eroded that sympathy. For anyone else in their circumstances, yes, I would have a great deal of empathy, compassion, sympathy. I can feel sorrow for the families of other murderers. But the A's are not like other people, imo. I can no longer see them as sympathetic victims; more like victimizers, particularly CA.

Just to clarify: I am in no way at all meaning to imply any negative implication toward any poster who has compassion for the A's. In fact, I think it is their own good nature, morals and experiences that they may be projecting on to the A's who, imo, are very unlike, maybe polar opposites of, those posters who are able to maintain compassion for them.

Sorry to toss all this out at you. Your post caused my thoughts to coalesce but it's something that's been nagging in my subconscious for a while. It's been a long time since they used up their last 'Victim - get out of responsibility free card' with me.

I can only say to you the same thing I just said to Debs--You have a very agreeable way of disagreeing! LOL.

In my post I was trying--unsuccessfully, it seems (More LOL) --to isolate and address only the negative impression some have here about why anyone in the A's situation might choose to go to a hotel, rather than going to their home, and why anyone in their position might decide to have dinner in the chosen hotel's restraurant.

However, you and Debs are both right in that it's pointless and even disengenuous to try to justify an action while ignoring the particular motivations and circumstances that led to it, as well as past behavior of the people involved.