AB's Involvement ptII

[lonetraveler]

Hello Sleuthers,

For what it is worth I think a lot of us thought that there would be some type of sexual abuse claim in this horrible tragedy. It was laden with almost all of the warning signs, and to know that not only did she endure physical and mental abuse but probably sexual abuse is appalling even more then the situation was before. I just want to throw up whenever I think about it. And then the anger sets in.

As for whether I think that these two guys SY and JY really did this to Zahra I am not sure. But contrary to popular belief I do believe that someone in her house was sexually abusing her and I think that there it was probably her wannabe father and EB if you could call either one of them "parents" I would have. I think that the money being deposited in the account was for things that were very depraved. They have to have webcam and IP signatures to figure out where they went. If they have dug far enough they can do all kinds of things with remote access. I am really starting to understand the "period" remark. Wow! If he says in a taped conversation with a 911 operator that she is brooding and starting her period then he can explain away the blood on the mattress????? He in my opinion was abusing her too! Why try to get someone out of trouble that could have raped and harmed your daughter, if you have nothing to hide as well???? Also, I dont fall for the der-da-der look that he gives like he has no idea why anyone would think that he would be depraved enough to dismember his daughter. Neither do I fall for the "all I want is to find her and take her back to OZ" (not word for word) I think that the couple hurt her regularly and this time it went to far and Z could not bounce back from the last assault. They then went into panic mode and concocted some story about a kidnapper. And a fire in the back yard. To cover up possible evidence of the crime.

I am so sorry for the rant but I am SOOOOOOOOO very angry and I really think that AB and EB both had a hand in her death as a result of abuse that she probably dealt with for some time. If this in the wrong thread please feel free to delete it or move it to another one.IMHO

Hi Thisjusthurtsmyheart! Great post and your post summarizes my thoughts exactly. I didn't get to say Welcome earlier but I do now, Welcome!!!!!

 

[thisjusthurtsmyheart]

Hi Thisjusthurtsmyheart! Great post and your post summarizes my thoughts exactly. I didn't get to say Welcome earlier but I do now, Welcome!!!!!

Thank you Lonetraveler and I love it here. So many intelligent people sharing ideas and making connections all for the same goal. I do not know where I would be without WS. Especially with this case. It is by far the most heinous act that I have ever read about. I just thank the heavens that no one can ever hurt her again. And again thanx for the welcome i appreciate it alot.

Much Respect :angel:

 

[newone]

At some point, I hope that AB's immigration status is answered by MSM because I suspect that's part of the reason he's remained ''below our radar'' - a good dad would find the means to get his daughter back to Oz for treatment but he may not have had the $$ to do so. EB knew that if he left the country he might now get back in. He may rightfully be fully ashamed of not being able to provide for his daughter.

 

[passionflower]

A thought that bothers me, I hate to be grose, but how many hours would it take to
murder, dismember, dispose of a body, clean up , paint, remove mattress, get a new one, set a fire, use 2 cars.........all by yourself???
As a woman, I think you would need help.
ALSO, how long was AB gone from home? or was he right there???
Also not using the shower? etc. IIRC EB said there would still be blood, bones etc in bath tub drain.

 

[westsidefox64]

I read somewhere? that the blood splatter expert could tell how tall,what position the person doing the dismemberment was. My question is if the blood and tissue were wiped and painted over would the luminol still show where it was originally? I wish I knew more about this. TIA

 

[nomoresorrow]

A thought that bothers me, I hate to be grose, but how many hours would it take to
murder, dismember, dispose of a body, clean up , paint, remove mattress, get a new one, set a fire, use 2 cars.........all by yourself???
As a woman, I think you would need help.
ALSO, how long was AB gone from home? or was he right there???
Also not using the shower? etc. IIRC EB said there would still be blood, bones etc in bath tub drain.

I've wondered all of the above myself passion, inparticular the dismembering part. One thing that I commonly came across when googling for any info related to length of time it takes to dismember... was that dismembering a frozen corpse was commonly done as apparently it creates less mess (hate to say it that way...). With that said, I'm wondering if LE will be able to tell, from the tissue they've collected, if Zahra's body was frozen pre-dismemberment. That in itself may help to pinpoint further time of death AND substantiate, or not, Adam's timeline/story of events. Just thinking outloud here...

MOO ~

 

[thisjusthurtsmyheart]

Westside and Nomoresorrow,

I have had extensive research and have got my degree in CJ and graduated with honors. So i feel comfortable enough to answer these questions. So here goes.

In the case of the luminol, yes it will show up even after being painted and or cleaned with household cleaners including but not limited to bleach. I have heard of luminol still showing up signs years after something had happened. Which helps a lot in cold cases. So yes even through paint it will still show.

In the case of the body of poor little Zahra being frozen, I do not know if I would even think that this was the case due to all of the blood evidence that was found in her room and throughout the house. But if by chance she had been frozen then they would have been able to tell due to to tissue degradation before the decomposition process started to occur. There will be a different state that it would be in due to the freezing and dethawing of the skin. Also in personal opinion it would have taken less time to do if the body was frozen but then I don't think the mess would have been quite as ad as it was.

I am so sorry for having to talk about our dear Zahra in this manner, it seems so unreal still. :sick:

Much :beats: and Respect

I read somewhere? that the blood splatter expert could tell how tall,what position the person doing the dismemberment was. My question is if the blood and tissue were wiped and painted over would the luminol still show where it was originally? I wish I knew more about this. TIA

 

[nomoresorrow]

Westside and Nomoresorrow,

I have had extensive research and have got my degree in CJ and graduated with honors. So i feel comfortable enough to answer these questions. So here goes.

In the case of the luminol, yes it will show up even after being painted and or cleaned with household cleaners including but not limited to bleach. I have heard of luminol still showing up signs years after something had happened. Which helps a lot in cold cases. So yes even through paint it will still show.

In the case of the body of poor little Zahra being frozen, I do not know if I would even think that this was the case due to all of the blood evidence that was found in her room and throughout the house. But if by chance she had been frozen then they would have been able to tell due to to tissue degradation before the decomposition process started to occur. There will be a different state that it would be in due to the freezing and dethawing of the skin. Also in personal opinion it would have taken less time to do if the body was frozen but then I don't think the mess would have been quite as ad as it was.

I am so sorry for having to talk about our dear Zahra in this manner, it seems so unreal still. :sick:

Much :beats: and Respect

Thank you thisjusthurtsmyheart for your insight. I know these are beyond difficult things to discuss - I just hope that LE can find the whole truth thru the evidence they've collected, every individual involved can and will be charged, and justice will be served for precious Zahra.

MOO~

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I voted that i am not convinced of AB's involvement in this horrific crime. I just think about Kyron Horman's case, and how out of touch Kaine seemed in all that was going on in his household,and it seems he was in that home a lot of the time, and also worked from home. The woman he married with all her scheming and conniving, never ever expecting anything like that to happen to his precious child, that is now missing for 6 mnths. He was "clueless" too.
Also being an Aussie myself, well, Aussies are a different breed of people. Did AB work, i gather he did from what i have read. He may have been oblivious and out of touch with his child and as to what was going on with her. The stepmother in this case was also a known abuser, and AB had no history of this as far as i know. Maybe Zahra was threatened by this stepmother if she said anything to her dad, and was probably really scared of her if she was abusing Zahra.
Like i said Aussies are a different culture, and i don't think we have a track record of really horrific crimes against children, as seems to be almost an epedemic here in the USA.
Is there any validity to Zahra being sexually abused?. If that was the case then maybe the stepmother had her in a really vile situation to make money from exploiting Zahra, unbeknown to AB. What if she was sold off for sex, and it was those perps that murdered her, and then got rid of her because Zahra threatened to tell on them, and if the SM was in on this she would have been in the gun also for doing this to Zahra, and they would of all been facing serious jail time. JMO.

 

[TorisMom003]

One major point that AB has to explain........if he and EB went to Octoberfest (as has been reported by locals) and Zahra was not with them, where did he think she was? We know that Zahra was not seen by any neighbors at the Hickory home so none of them could have babysat her. We know that EB had severed ties with her family members and had not talked to them since before the move to the Hickory home so none of them could have babysat her. I can't see AB (if he is as loving of a father as he and his mother claim he is) leaving Zahra home at night alone especially when they were going to something that a kid would love. This occured the night before Zahra was reported missing by AB, so where was she?

 

[impatientredhead]

One major point that AB has to explain........if he and EB went to Octoberfest (as has been reported by locals) and Zahra was not with them, where did he think she was? We know that Zahra was not seen by any neighbors at the Hickory home so none of them could have babysat her. We know that EB had severed ties with her family members and had not talked to them since before the move to the Hickory home so none of them could have babysat her. I can't see AB (if he is as loving of a father as he and his mother claim he is) leaving Zahra home at night alone especially when they were going to something that a kid would love. This occured the night before Zahra was reported missing by AB, so where was she?

He already explained this, you must have forgot that she was in puberty and brooding in her room. Unless she wanted something from them.

Oh yeah, she had the flu somewhere in there too.

It is a crock but clearly he is more than willing to claim absent parent. clueless to what was going on around him.

But we can all conclude based on time lapsed and the amount of clean up that had to have gone on that the dismemberment, disposal, and housekeeping had pretty much concluded before our happy couple went out for the local celebration. If he physical evidence proves Adam was involved in at least the dismemberment and disposal of his daughters body, and they can show him out for drinks and socializing, that says a lot about state of mind regarding her death.

 

[agathawannabe]

He already explained this, you must have forgot that she was in puberty and brooding in her room. Unless she wanted something from them.

Oh yeah, she had the flu somewhere in there too.

It is a crock but clearly he is more than willing to claim absent parent. clueless to what was going on around him.

But we can all conclude based on time lapsed and the amount of clean up that had to have gone on that the dismemberment, disposal, and housekeeping had pretty much concluded before our happy couple went out for the local celebration. If he physical evidence proves Adam was involved in at least the dismemberment and disposal of his daughters body, and they can show him out for drinks and socializing, that says a lot about state of mind regarding her death.

Speculation alert:

Call me strange.. but I think AB may have thought Z was home in bed sleeping/resting to get recovered from a stomach virus. (and no, I wouldn't award him Father of the Year with lapses in judgment like this, among other parental failures)

Note: Hickory Oktoberfest started on Friday Oct 8 and went until 11 pm that night.

I think during Oktoberfest (Friday evening/night) IS the timeframe the dismemberment/dumping of Z's remains occurred.. and believe it or not, I think neither EB nor AB actually had a hand in it. (and, IMO, AB had no knowledge of it). Ironic, but I think it would fit EB's style to "set up" others to do this dirty work. And with the sorts of allegations we heard this week, there could have been others willing to take this on to ensure their own misdeeds were concealed. (I am not making any accusations here against the two who were named in those allegations.) I think EB was involved in other cover-up tasks (i.e. dumping the mattress earlier that day - or possibly the day before).

I think EB likely convinced AB to go to Oktoberfest to get him out of the house so *other* accomplices could have access to the house and vehicles. I think there were probably 2 or 3 accomplices (possibly even 4).

I think the accomplices did the dismembering, then 2 of them split up in the (company) Tahoe and the 1990 Camry to go distribute Z's remains. I think it's possible a 3rd (maybe 4th) stayed to clean up the crime scene at the house.

I think the 2005 Impala on the search warrant (the car with NO decomp hits on it) is likely what the Bakers would have driven to Oktoberfest.

I think the accomplices were very hurried to get everything done while the Bakers were out.. hence the "goo glove" dropped and left behind with no time for double-checking things.

I think EB was "briefed" by the accomplices as to the dumping sites. And IF there actually are discrepancies between what EB said (in the warrants) would be found and what was actually found at particular locations - I think she had either misunderstood or misremembered what she had been told (by the accomplices) was where.

Big-time speculation, I know. But I really think the story could be something similar to this when it all comes out.

And because I wholeheartedly believe there were accomplices in on this - I again, sincerely urge these accomplices to do the right thing - for a change. Go speak with police.

 

[KikiWanBaniki]

agatha--

I think that is an amazingly insightful and plausible theory! Wow!

 

[Kathaboo K]

Agatha I think you hit on something-EB was apparently involved in a weird lifestyle with all of her talk of wanting to be a Vampire and such.I'm sure she was involved with other wacko's who were on the same wavelength as her.She could have recruited some of her following to do her dirty work and used Zahra in some sort of satanic ritual they planned.Only a theory,but perhaps a possibility.

 

[agathawannabe]

Agatha I think you hit on something-EB was apparently involved in a weird lifestyle with all of her talk of wanting to be a Vampire and such.I'm sure she was involved with other wacko's who were on the same wavelength as her.She could have recruited some of her following to do her dirty work and used Zahra in some sort of satanic ritual they planned.Only a theory,but perhaps a possibility.

At this point, I can't rule out a possible ritualistic perversion as you suggest; although I tend to think the dismemberment was intended to try to conceal cause of death.

But.. was EB's rolodex replete with unsavory characters? I think it was.

I think I'm going to start a new thread to discuss/debate the theory I posted above.

 

[madeleine]

If he was involved in the cover up then he's got something to hide IMO,what exactly it is I don't know.
You wouldn't help a woman who just dismembered your kid unless you are sick as hell.
It's interesting,we kinda know what she accused him of but we don't know what HE told LE about her.Of course,I guess his defence (if guilty) is "I don't know what she did and if she did."Time will tell....

 

[madeleine]

I find it kinda telling that LE searched a large area near Adam Baker's job in wood chips for clues right after SHE was arrested (and started spilling the beans?)

 

[LaLaw2000]

I haven't been posting much lately because of the sickening nature of what happened to Zahra.

I have thought since early on that there was a third person involved. I still think that and also firmly believe that AB knew exactly what happened to Zahra. He may not have been involved in causing her death, but I believe he darn well helped in the clean up and disposal.

JMO

 

[madeleine]

Just watched his interview (and his mommy).
He's SCARED .
IMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

Speculation alert:

Call me strange.. but I think AB may have thought Z was home in bed sleeping/resting to get recovered from a stomach virus. (and no, I wouldn't award him Father of the Year with lapses in judgment like this, among other parental failures)

Note: Hickory Oktoberfest started on Friday Oct 8 and went until 11 pm that night.

I think during Oktoberfest (Friday evening/night) IS the timeframe the dismemberment/dumping of Z's remains occurred.. and believe it or not, I think neither EB nor AB actually had a hand in it. (and, IMO, AB had no knowledge of it). Ironic, but I think it would fit EB's style to "set up" others to do this dirty work. And with the sorts of allegations we heard this week, there could have been others willing to take this on to ensure their own misdeeds were concealed. (I am not making any accusations here against the two who were named in those allegations.) I think EB was involved in other cover-up tasks (i.e. dumping the mattress earlier that day - or possibly the day before).

I think EB likely convinced AB to go to Oktoberfest to get him out of the house so *other* accomplices could have access to the house and vehicles. I think there were probably 2 or 3 accomplices (possibly even 4).

I think the accomplices did the dismembering, then 2 of them split up in the (company) Tahoe and the 1990 Camry to go distribute Z's remains. I think it's possible a 3rd (maybe 4th) stayed to clean up the crime scene at the house.

I think the 2005 Impala on the search warrant (the car with NO decomp hits on it) is likely what the Bakers would have driven to Oktoberfest.

I think the accomplices were very hurried to get everything done while the Bakers were out.. hence the "goo glove" dropped and left behind with no time for double-checking things.

I think EB was "briefed" by the accomplices as to the dumping sites. And IF there actually are discrepancies between what EB said (in the warrants) would be found and what was actually found at particular locations - I think she had either misunderstood or misremembered what she had been told (by the accomplices) was where.

Big-time speculation, I know. But I really think the story could be something similar to this when it all comes out.

And because I wholeheartedly believe there were accomplices in on this - I again, sincerely urge these accomplices to do the right thing - for a change. Go speak with police.

Bolded by you..

ITA They need to speak with police.. instead of everywhere else...

imo