AB's involvement?

[Kamille]

She dismembered the leg there.

Who knows all of what she told them. I am just throwing a flip of a coin speculation of a different kind of theory. Sometimes if you look at something a little differently, something else becomes clearer. I'm not saying this is what happened, like Monk. I'm just throwing something fresh out there to see if something else clicks with someone else.

It is good to get different theories and look at things differently Clue Hopper...thank you. One thing I noted in your theory is about AB's legal and probable immigation issues and how calling the authorities regarding Zahra's death might have affected that. EB would have known about these issues and that he would have been found and have to face the legal charges and possibly deported regarding the immigration issues. But she did call in the authorities for the fire and the kidnapping caper so she wasn't try to save him from anything. She had to have known that both of AB's issues would be discovered at that point. She also would have known that this call would lead to her being found by the authorities and having to face her own legal charges.

What I'd be interested to know is what she asked of BB regarding the legal issue during the phone call on Oct 8th. Was she only asking BB to drop the charges on her? Saying that it was really all AB's idea to chase them down and threaten them so it should only be him that was charged? Was she already throwing him under the bus knowing that he'd eventually be deported?

So if she killed and disposed of Zahra alone or with outside help and got away with that with the "brilliant kidnapping plan", AB would likely have spent some time in jail on his threat charges and then would have been deported. Even if she had to do a bit of time on the threat charges because BB didn't budge on dropping the charges on her, in the end, she would be free to move on. So she called in the authorities instead of just packing up and moving on with AB again. I could never understand why they didn't just do that and continue to lie to family about Zahra's whereabouts.

Just another angle to throw out there.

MOO

 

[Clue Hopper]

It is good to get different theories and look at things differently Clue Hopper...thank you. One thing I noted in your theory is about AB's legal and probable immigation issues and how calling the authorities regarding Zahra's death might have affected that. EB would have known about these issues and that he would have been found and have to face the legal charges and possibly deported regarding the immigration issues. But she did call in the authorities for the fire and the kidnapping caper so she wasn't try to save him from anything. She had to have known that both of AB's issues would be discovered at that point. She also would have known that this call would lead to her being found by the authorities and having to face her own legal charges.

What I'd be interested to know is what she asked of BB regarding the legal issue during the phone call on Oct 8th. Was she only asking BB to drop the charges on her? Saying that it was really all AB's idea to chase them down and threaten them so it should only be him that was charged? Was she already throwing him under the bus knowing that he'd eventually be deported?

So if she killed and disposed of Zahra alone or with outside help and got away with that with the "brilliant kidnapping plan", AB would likely have spent some time in jail on his threat charges and then would have been deported. Even if she had to do a bit of time on the threat charges because BB didn't budge on dropping the charges on her, in the end, she would be free to move on. So she called in the authorities instead of just packing up and moving on with AB again. I could never understand why they didn't just do that and continue to lie to family about Zahra's whereabouts.

Just another angle to throw out there.

MOO

Almost as though a way of getting out from under them both and being free of it all.

 

[tlcya]

I am wondering about the dumpster that the matress was placed in. Do we have any links or info via EB's letters, attorney motions, etc telling us what specific dumpster the mattress was supposedly dumped in or its location?

I can't get past the witnesses at the (sawmills I think) Mobile Home Park (the one with the hill, previous address) who claim to have seen BOTH AB and EB at the MHP at night lurking about near the dumpster.

Will have to go searching for links when I get home from work today.

If the mattress was left in the dumpster at that MHP and the neighbors witness BOTH the Bakers near the dumpster area then that to means AB has some splaining to do RE: why was Zahra's matress being got rid of? Where was Zahra supposedly at while they were galavanting round town fly dumping mattress late at night? Did they leave her at home alone unsupervised with her brooding and her stomach virus?

all moo specuation. Later on tonight I intend to try to find some answers to those and more questions.

ETA Okay, my bad, links below show mattress was located near 21st street address

Which to me indicates it could have been wrestled over and into dumpster by one person or two and does nothing to help me prove one way or another if AB was part of that process. sigh.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I am wondering about the dumpster that the matress was placed in. Do we have any links or info via EB's letters, attorney motions, etc telling us what specific dumpster the mattress was supposedly dumped in or its location?

I can't get past the witnesses at the (sawmills I think) Mobile Home Park (the one with the hill, previous address) who claim to have seen BOTH AB and EB at the MHP at night lurking about near the dumpster.

Will have to go searching for links when I get home from work today.

If the mattress was left in the dumpster at that MHP and the neighbors witness BOTH the Bakers near the dumpster area then that to means AB has some splaining to do RE: why was Zahra's matress being got rid of? Where was Zahra supposedly at while they were galavanting round town fly dumping mattress late at night? Did they leave her at home alone unsupervised with her brooding and her stomach virus?

all moo specuation. Later on tonight I intend to try to find some answers to those and more questions.

I'm almost certain I read somewhere (please don't ask me where, I'm still trying to track down other links!), that LE took the dumpster itself into evidence.

Wondering if anyone else recalls reading that. :waitasec:

ETA: If my memory serves, it was one of the dumpsters behind the house. You can see those in SherlockHomey or Punknluvs pics.

 

[Lera213]

I am so upset that Adam is still out and his attorney is playing him up as a victim. I wanted to PUKE when I read this by his attorney:

His attorney, Mark Killian, told reporters after the hearing Thursday morning that Adam Baker "is doing as well as could be expected."

When asked if he will make Baker available to reporters, Killian responded, "He wants time to grieve and absorb all that's happened."



Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/11/18/811205/bakers-dont-appear-in-court-for.html#ixzz15ee9q6zU

 

[Kamille]

I am wondering about the dumpster that the matress was placed in. Do we have any links or info via EB's letters, attorney motions, etc telling us what specific dumpster the mattress was supposedly dumped in or its location?

I can't get past the witnesses at the (sawmills I think) Mobile Home Park (the one with the hill, previous address) who claim to have seen BOTH AB and EB at the MHP at night lurking about near the dumpster.

Will have to go searching for links when I get home from work today.

If the mattress was left in the dumpster at that MHP and the neighbors witness BOTH the Bakers near the dumpster area then that to means AB has some splaining to do RE: why was Zahra's matress being got rid of? Where was Zahra supposedly at while they were galavanting round town fly dumping mattress late at night? Did they leave her at home alone unsupervised with her brooding and her stomach virus?

all moo specuation. Later on tonight I intend to try to find some answers to those and more questions.

Here is a link to one story but because these news websites just keep updating, we have to figure out when the original story was posted and when the "three weeks ago" would be.

Meanwhile, the residents of a trailer park in Caldwell County where Zahra lived until mid-summer are still hoping the girl will be found alive, but they admit that hope is fading. Search teams combed the woods around the trailer park last Wednesday.

"They need to come back and do some more," said Tabitha Haas.

Haas said Adam and Elisa Baker were spotted in the neighborhood about three weeks ago.

"They came here at night," Haas said.

Peggy Johnson claims a few days later, "the most awful smell was coming up out of the manhole in my yard."

She said authorities lifted the lid and looked inside, but only for a few seconds.

"They's another manhole in the holler that they need to come back and look at," Johnson said.

The place she talked about is hidden in a valley area behind a vacant trailer. It is in the same area where the couple was spotted.

http://www.wbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=13297637

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Okay, here we go (thanks Owl!):

Pertaining to dumpster taken into evidence...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5684550&postcount=55"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #8[/ame]

 

[tehcloser]

The document says Baker also directed investigators to other sites where possible evidence was located, including the dumpster where Zahra's mattress was discarded and undisclosed items found at the family's home.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ents-zahra-was-dismembered.html#ixzz15eh5AOTB

 

[tlcya]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5816826&postcount=240"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Zahra Baker's Possible Cause(s) of Death[/ame]

dumpster taken from near 21st street baker residence.

 

[truckengirl]

I feel that they are both involved and that neither of them are smart enough to have cleaned their fingerprints off all the items that have been recovered such as the dumpster. I just dont think EB is smart enough to have done the dismemberment and getting rid of the evidence all by herself without AB knowing.

 

[westsidefox64]

BBM

I think the time frame (3 hours, according to when AB last saw Z and when the cars were seized) is enough for me to believe she couldn't possibly act alone. I think Z was dead and the act was done days before they came up with the kidnapping plan.

It's tough because we really don't know what type of man AB is. We've heard all the horror stories about EB, but what about Adam? We know he tried to run people off the road, that shows he may be capable of murder. He may have a secret violent side that nobody knew about.

I just don't feel in my heart EB acted alone and AB didn't notice one strange thing. Also, the fact that he chopped things up for a living, doesn't sit well with me either. I suppose with his line of work he would know how to go about dismembering things.

RBBM
I have looked at this post several times thinking something wasnt right about it. The cars were not taken at the time of the fire. That would have been the 3 hour point. IIRC they were taken after the dogs hit on them which was after Adams 911 call. JMO

 

[the seeker]

Just some thoughts
Usually you have a number of gel liners in varying degrees of thickness to help with the increase/decrease in the prosthetic fitting, daughter has 10 ie. fluid retention / swelling
Defense motion = strategic manoeuvring
Obtaining significant evidence- I suspect they may not of known exactly what they were going to find just the area/place to look. Whether this compromises the investigation etc do not know possibilities
are endless
The previous address and Monty Carlo keep coming back to me
The very careful wording of the press conference especially the swabs of both bio parents unless needed something to fill in at the PC
I seriously doubt they had access to the hickory address or would bother with the landfill. I would suspect the previous address or another location
Hardware of the prosthesis contains the means of the identification not the liners i.e. socket joints, daughters new joints actually come from Germany
AB's defense taking own pictures of various places around the hickory address means AB defense focusing on specifics as were there for relatively short time
Believe EB could of done this probable though had help. Part that has me is that only was person was seen sitting on steps not two
Dogs hitting on both vehicles if EB was in both one to dispose one to plant letter and gasoline
So far all about EB from what i see not AB at least this portion. Could be waiting on results MOO

BBM:

I just curious, what do you make out of that 911 call then? Do you really think that AB didnt know the ransom note was fake? Not attacking, just curious what your take is on those things that are so convincing to me.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I am wondering about the dumpster that the matress was placed in. Do we have any links or info via EB's letters, attorney motions, etc telling us what specific dumpster the mattress was supposedly dumped in or its location?

I can't get past the witnesses at the (sawmills I think) Mobile Home Park (the one with the hill, previous address) who claim to have seen BOTH AB and EB at the MHP at night lurking about near the dumpster.

Will have to go searching for links when I get home from work today.

If the mattress was left in the dumpster at that MHP and the neighbors witness BOTH the Bakers near the dumpster area then that to means AB has some splaining to do RE: why was Zahra's matress being got rid of? Where was Zahra supposedly at while they were galavanting round town fly dumping mattress late at night? Did they leave her at home alone unsupervised with her brooding and her stomach virus?

all moo specuation. Later on tonight I intend to try to find some answers to those and more questions.

ETA Okay, my bad, links below show mattress was located near 21st street address

Which to me indicates it could have been wrestled over and into dumpster by one person or two and does nothing to help me prove one way or another if AB was part of that process. sigh.

Maybe not, but the fact that the mattress may have been discarded in the dumpster directly behind the house DOES bring me straight back to AB's irrelevant statements to 911 operator about Zahra having entered puberty. :waitasec:

ETA: Even if he knew that the mattress was gone from the dumpster by the time the 911 call was made, he would certainly know that the dumpster (and possibly blood evidence) might still be sitting right out in plain view.

 

[raisincharlie]

After watching the raw footage of AB's interview, all I can say is he denies having dismembered Zahra, but not once does he deny having killed her. He only denies ever hurting her and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Bia.]

I really wish there was a place in me that could believe or at least feel he was some what innocent, but there isn't. I've gone through every scenario in my head and at the end of the day, he is always involved in some aspect.

I don't believe EB is fully capable of doing all that was done by herself. I also don't believe someone is that detached from their family/home that they didn't notice a crime scene taking place.

According to AB, both him and EB "slept in" the day Z went "missing". So, if he saw her at 2AM that morning and EB was in bed next to him the entire time (after the fire of course), how did she go about driving around the County disposing of body parts?

It's just such a bizarre story on his end, JMHO.

 

[april_showers]

BBM:

I just curious, what do you make out of that 911 call then? Do you really think that AB didnt know the ransom note was fake? Not attacking, just curious what your take is on those things that are so convincing to me.

I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but I'm chiming in anyway... =)

At this point, I'm still one of those undecided fence sitters as far as who did what, but I will concede that the 911 call was not typical of a panicked father. That brings most of us to the conclusion of his obvious involvement, but there is still that tiny part of me that doubts and wonders about possible alternate scenarios.

IF (and I'm not saying I believe this), but IF EB were entirely culpable, and possibly setting up AB, perhaps she convinced him to go along with a fake kidnapping? I'm picturing some type of "Zahra's fine, she's over at [insert random family member]. Just go along with this, and we'll be able to get some cash from your jerk of a boss." Desperate for money, not very bright... not an entirely implausible scenario, IMO. Expect EB was also using this as an opportunity to remove her culpability for a larger crime, unbeknownst to AB?

Ok, I know I'm stretching a bit... Just throwing that out there though....

 

[Kamille]

Maybe not, but the fact that the mattress may have been discarded in the dumpster directly behind the house DOES bring me straight back to AB's irrelevant statements to 911 operator about Zahra having entered puberty. :waitasec:

ETA: Even if he knew that the mattress was gone from the dumpster by the time the 911 call was made, he would certainly know that the dumpster (and possibly blood evidence) might still be sitting right out in plain view.

:waitasec:

I thought it had been established that the mattress was found in the landfill that picks up dumpsters from Caldwell County. The Hickory house is in Catawba County and the trash from those dumpsters goes elsewhere. Because of this, the mattress could not have been put in the dumpster at the restaurant near the house.

MOO

 

[the seeker]

I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but I'm chiming in anyway... =)

At this point, I'm still one of those undecided fence sitters as far as who did what, but I will concede that the 911 call was not typical of a panicked father. That brings most of us to the conclusion of his obvious involvement, but there is still that tiny part of me that doubts and wonders about possible alternate scenarios.

IF (and I'm not saying I believe this), but IF EB were entirely culpable, and possibly setting up AB, perhaps she convinced him to go along with a fake kidnapping? I'm picturing some type of "Zahra's fine, she's over at [insert random family member]. Just go along with this, and we'll be able to get some cash from your jerk of a boss." Desperate for money, not very bright... not an entirely implausible scenario, IMO. Expect EB was also using this as an opportunity to remove her culpability for a larger crime, unbeknownst to AB?

Ok, I know I'm stretching a bit... Just throwing that out there though....

Thank you. I guess a scenario like yours is possible...especially if AB isnt very bright. I just happen to think that EB is lacking in brightness too, so I dont think she would think of something like that, but I could be very wrong...she is a con artist and a speaker of lies (sounds better than calling her a liar, and Im not sure why I care about what I call her), so I suppose it is possible. Interesting, thanks!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

:waitasec:

I thought it had been established that the mattress was found in the landfill that picks up dumpsters from Caldwell County. The Hickory house is in Catawba County and the trash from those dumpsters goes elsewhere. Because of this, the mattress could not have been put in the dumpster at the restaurant near the house.

MOO

Well, it COULD have been put in the dumpster and removed later. But I see what you're saying. Good point.

 

[raisincharlie]

:waitasec:

I thought it had been established that the mattress was found in the landfill that picks up dumpsters from Caldwell County. The Hickory house is in Catawba County and the trash from those dumpsters goes elsewhere. Because of this, the mattress could not have been put in the dumpster at the restaurant near the house.

MOO

I don't believe that is the case. The facility is titled as Foothills Regional Landfill. In 2005 this landfill serviced 11 NC counties. In 2006 they filed for a permit to expand the landfill service to 25 NC counties. Don't know if that was approved or not, but it remains, the landfill is regional and not limited to Caldwell County only. See attached:

http://www.wastenotnc.org/swhome/caldwellfactsheetrev.pdf