AB's T Shirt

[ThoughtFox]

One more thing - I believe people can have no influences at all from the outside world and still be evil and still abuse or neglect children. People can twist religious belief and use it as a rationalization for child abuse. Happens all the time in many religions and cultures that have no rock and roll or movies.

Appearances are just deceiving. I think it's creepier that if you didn't know the facts of this case and saw that picture of AB, most people would say he looked normal. That is how creeps get away with this stuff.

 

[tehcloser]

I smile knowing who vengeance really belongs to.

 

[watergirl]

SOAD is one of my favorite bands. Read past the anger in the lyrics, you will see a search for truth and justice.

Intense. Relevant. Metal.

:rocker:

 

[AliceInPain]

Just to say... My son introduced me to this band, when he was 10. So I don't understand the anger.
Great band, great singer, great lyrics...
Would hope Zahra heard them in her life.
Thinking, she never did, regardless of her so-called fathers t-shirts : (

 

[passionflower]

My comment on the T shirt, is not a good one for a passport!!!
But then AB thinks he is one tough guy, HUH?

 

[Cyan]

(bbm)
I'm not sure I agree with that statement. When we listen to certain things day in and day out, whether we are aware of it, or not, they're affecting us. For instance, don't certain songs make you feel happy, while others make you feel sad? How you feel is going to color your perceptions, positively or negatively. That's going to affect your parenting.

As to the clothes one chooses to wear...children take in much more than we give them credit for. And, whether we choose to admit it or not, we do judge a person by what they are wearing. We can either say, "ugh! How inappropriate!" (judging), or we can say, "You go, girl!" (also judging). The only difference is one is negative, one is positive, but still making a judgement. So by what you wear, you are giving your children the impression in their developing minds that that is an "ok" way to dress, whether it's wearing fishnet stockings or flannel.

So, in short, I don't agree that it's ok to listen to whatever you want, and wear whatever you want, and still be an effective parent....because anything you do negatively has the ability to impact your children.

I do agree, however, with the idea that if you are putting them first, you're doing something right. That's where it all starts.

Well I'm 31. I have green hair. I like wearing punk clothing, and on occasion spend time hanging out with gutter punks.I *always* look pissed off. I lost 50 lbs in a matter of 2 months. I like to listen to SOAD, Dimmu Borgir, Stabbing Westward. I also have friends that are lawyers and doctors and retail workers. I have friends with long hair, short hair, blue hair, no hair, and rainbow hair. I lived in a ghetto for several years and I many patrol officers make me paranoid. I have a daughter. She's 9. She's given a LOT of freedom to choose her own clothing and hair styles and lots of other things. Her favorite songs are by Papa Roach and the Dresden Dolls. That's all that anyone sees. When I have to be bothered to go to a store, Im always wearing a hoodie and go with my obnoxiously loud music on my mp3 player.... That way, I don't have to overhear all of the gossip.

What people dont see is that I'm practically a hermit. I don't drink, smoke, and have never done illegal drugs... I haven't even smoked a J. I can't stand to be around most drug addicts and drunks. I've never been to jail, but I don't like most cops because of two incidents of getting pulled over and detained during routine traffic stops (tail lights out) in the pouring rain for 30 minutes because the officer kept misspelling the name of the driver of the car. I sometimes like the MUSIC or playing abilities of a band/its members, but not necessarily their lyrics, but the loud racket gets my adrenaline going and motivates me to not just sit around on my bum. I take my mp3 player when I do have to go out so I dont have to be forced to overhear anyone's gossip. Whats on that MP3 player besides SOAD, Dimmu, and SW? Dave Matthews, Collin Raye, Rob Thomas. As for my daughter.... She's extremely modest and she loves most music. She's an A & B student with friends. I've only heard her say one mean thing about anyone, ever. Even as a toddler the usual "HEY LOOK MOM! She's fat!" kind of thing never came out of her mouth. She plays soccer with her friends, teaches younger children to read.

I'd really hate to be judged by the photo of me from when I attempted to teach someone how to do "Dresden Dolls" style make up for Halloween or just by seeing me. We all have our suspicions and general knowledge in the case... but just sayin. How would a lot of you made me out to be?

 

[carbuff]

During the one and only presser that I have seen AB with one of the LE officers he was wearing a T-Shirt that said Vengence, this was right after Zahra went missing now that shirt is probably exactly what AB wanted to say.

Vengeance is also a band -- a rather good Dutch metal band from the 80's. I don't think I have any of their CDs but I wish I did. Not having seen the t-shirt in question I can't swear it was one of theirs, but given AB's musical taste, it seems likely.

 

[carbuff]

Just to say... My son introduced me to this band, when he was 10. So I don't understand the anger.
Great band, great singer, great lyrics...
Would hope Zahra heard them in her life.
Thinking, she never did, regardless of her so-called fathers t-shirts : (

Me too -- my son was like 14. He got me the Toxicity album for my birthday.

They're about social justice, and the anger of seeing the way society systematically mistreats so many of its weakest members. A lot of it is about the Armenian genocide. Musically, they're excellent.

 

[NancyA]

I think what’s important is having a sense of the appropriate as to what to wear when and where. We all have something of the chameleon in us which allows us to adapt to the many different environments we find ourselves in. Whatever our preferred look, on whatever part of the extreme spectrum, we know or should know enough to tone it up or down as the occasion requires. Bustier and mini for a night out getting down with your bad 50 year old self ? Fine - though my inner fashion cop is writing you up for violation of the law that says ‘*advertiser censored* OR legs NOT both’ . Bustier and mini at a PTA meeting? Not so much.

As far as how far the music we choose to listen to influences us, well, that argument has been raging since long before my dad took a dislike to my Black Sabbath albums when I was 15 and will still be raging long after my great great grandchildren are taking a dislike to their kids choice of music. IMO it depends on the person, there are always the aberrations, the ones who will take it to extremes, but even Ozzy at his most seductive couldn’t convince my 15 year old self to ‘push the needle in’ and even after almost 35 years as a metalhead/rock fan and constant listening I’ve yet to feel the urge to sell my soul to Satan or go out killing and maiming because of played backwards on vinyl ‘subliminal’ messages, and I can safely say the same about my many middle-aged rock fan friends.

With regard to AB’s Vengeance t-shirt, well tour shirts ARE probably the kind of thing he wears day in day out but in this case I’m convinced it was a calculated choice, he was sending a message “SHE did it and I’m just a poor grieving dad who’s out for payback”. I for one am not buying his message.

 

[TxLady2]

I think even if these two had dressed in nice clothes and listened to nothing but church hyms, they still would be evil inside.

 

[tlcya]

I have no problem with EB or AB's music choices. Music is music. I have no knowledge of whether they "exposed" Z to inappropriate music or lyrics, but given what I DO know was done to Zahra, this is a non-issue for me.

 

[Meagain]

Oh gee. System of a Down? Nothing crazy/dark, etc. about them. In fact, some would refer to them as fairly 'campy'. Some great technical stuff there for sure tho.

 

[carbuff]

I think even if these two had dressed in nice clothes and listened to nothing but church hyms, they still would be evil inside.

Yes, exactly!

 

[AquaEyes]

My son is sixteen and though he loves the Beatles I force fed to him, he has started to listen to some of these groups too. I was horrified at first. But I listen with him and we'll talk about lyrics or moods of songs. Often these songs tell of stories of fears and coming through those fears, or of failing and then succeeding. So, I try to be understanding and listen to the songs and I will give him my honest opinions. I look at music the way I look at reading books. They both tell tales of people's lives, or of ideas they have or from things in the news. A normal person reading Catcher in the Rye, or any number of books, will thoughtfully mull over the content or dismiss it. But, someone like the monster who murdered John Lennon, will self-identify with the character and imagine he is the character.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that it's the person that is faulty. IMO

 

[oh_gal]

Well I'm 31. I have green hair. I like wearing punk clothing, and on occasion spend time hanging out with gutter punks.I *always* look pissed off. I lost 50 lbs in a matter of 2 months. I like to listen to SOAD, Dimmu Borgir, Stabbing Westward. I also have friends that are lawyers and doctors and retail workers. I have friends with long hair, short hair, blue hair, no hair, and rainbow hair. I lived in a ghetto for several years and I many patrol officers make me paranoid. I have a daughter. She's 9. She's given a LOT of freedom to choose her own clothing and hair styles and lots of other things. Her favorite songs are by Papa Roach and the Dresden Dolls. That's all that anyone sees. When I have to be bothered to go to a store, Im always wearing a hoodie and go with my obnoxiously loud music on my mp3 player.... That way, I don't have to overhear all of the gossip.

What people dont see is that I'm practically a hermit. I don't drink, smoke, and have never done illegal drugs... I haven't even smoked a J. I can't stand to be around most drug addicts and drunks. I've never been to jail, but I don't like most cops because of two incidents of getting pulled over and detained during routine traffic stops (tail lights out) in the pouring rain for 30 minutes because the officer kept misspelling the name of the driver of the car. I sometimes like the MUSIC or playing abilities of a band/its members, but not necessarily their lyrics, but the loud racket gets my adrenaline going and motivates me to not just sit around on my bum. I take my mp3 player when I do have to go out so I dont have to be forced to overhear anyone's gossip. Whats on that MP3 player besides SOAD, Dimmu, and SW? Dave Matthews, Collin Raye, Rob Thomas. As for my daughter.... She's extremely modest and she loves most music. She's an A & B student with friends. I've only heard her say one mean thing about anyone, ever. Even as a toddler the usual "HEY LOOK MOM! She's fat!" kind of thing never came out of her mouth. She plays soccer with her friends, teaches younger children to read.

I'd really hate to be judged by the photo of me from when I attempted to teach someone how to do "Dresden Dolls" style make up for Halloween or just by seeing me. We all have our suspicions and general knowledge in the case... but just sayin. How would a lot of you made me out to be?

Thank you for your enlightening post. It sounds like you have a wonderful daughter!

Like you, I believe in what I wrote.

 

[Fyrecat]

I understand ,an adult maybe listening, but would it be common now a day to expose a child to this "music"?

I listened to as a pre teen, the sound track of Hair, some Alice Cooper, and then later on Ozzy. I am now alot more mellow.

I think that what the Bakers listened to didn't influence how they raised or treated Zahra. It was just music.

I do think it's an interesting, very sad and depressing case. I believe this child was sadly neglected medically. But I don't think they listened to some music that influenced them to treat her badly.

 

[kalekona]

(bbm)
I'm not sure I agree with that statement. When we listen to certain things day in and day out, whether we are aware of it, or not, they're affecting us. For instance, don't certain songs make you feel happy, while others make you feel sad? How you feel is going to color your perceptions, positively or negatively. That's going to affect your parenting.

As to the clothes one chooses to wear...children take in much more than we give them credit for. And, whether we choose to admit it or not, we do judge a person by what they are wearing. We can either say, "ugh! How inappropriate!" (judging), or we can say, "You go, girl!" (also judging). The only difference is one is negative, one is positive, but still making a judgement. So by what you wear, you are giving your children the impression in their developing minds that that is an "ok" way to dress, whether it's wearing fishnet stockings or flannel.

So, in short, I don't agree that it's ok to listen to whatever you want, and wear whatever you want, and still be an effective parent....because anything you do negatively has the ability to impact your children.

I do agree, however, with the idea that if you are putting them first, you're doing something right. That's where it all starts.

I listen to a bit of everything, very eclectic in my music and so are my oldest and youngest daughters- (middle one is deaf so her music is all about the beat and bass not the lyrics) My girls knew the lyrics to Rocky Horror Picture Show by I think Kindergarten- the youngest was head banging to Metallica in the womb (no joke) Yet my oldest didn't even curse until she was 18 other than when repeating lyrics of a song. Both girls are very modest and all three of them have turned out to be level headed, logical,law abiding young women. (ok the youngest still has 13 months before she is 18 but safe to say she didn't turn out to be a juvenile delequent. )
I never hid reality from any of them, very few movies and television shows were forbidden and they always watched the news with me. And we talked about all of it.
I live in a town where a lot of people don't believe in Television- they always try and tell me how much smarter their kids are and how parents who allow TV are bad parents-- I usually let them run on a bit then tell them that My daughter watched TV from morning to night and not only did she graduate with honors she a supervisor at a Television Station. (I get a kick out of the dumbfounded look they are left with)

My point is simple really (contrary to the novel length post I just wrote) It honestly doesn't matter what you wear,watch or listen to it matters how you TEACH them. How you explain right from wrong. And how you give them your time.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

While we're all vastly different and are drawn to many opposite styles of clothing and music, I think we'd all agree that our choices are not an indication of whether we are a good or bad person. Our fav styles are our attempt to project an image of ourselves that we admire.

I wouldn't even blink if I saw Adam wearing a shirt with sculls and vengeance written across his chest at any casual or entertainment venue. But at a media event about his missing daughter who is obviously in harm's way? Really? You want to wear images of death?

Regardless of Adam's preferred style, I think it was highly inappropriate (and even disrespectful) to wear that shirt. It doesn't make him a bad person but it sure shows me he makes many, many thoughtless and bad choices. moo, moo, moo

 

[oh_gal]

Just for the record.... I'm addicted to Billy The Exterminator -- and anyone who's watched his show knows that he doesn't dress (or look) mainstream. But underneath all his "bling" or whatever you want to call it, I see a genuinely nice guy.

 

[oh_gal]

I listen to a bit of everything, very eclectic in my music and so are my oldest and youngest daughters- (middle one is deaf so her music is all about the beat and bass not the lyrics) My girls knew the lyrics to Rocky Horror Picture Show by I think Kindergarten- the youngest was head banging to Metallica in the womb (no joke) Yet my oldest didn't even curse until she was 18 other than when repeating lyrics of a song. Both girls are very modest and all three of them have turned out to be level headed, logical,law abiding young women. (ok the youngest still has 13 months before she is 18 but safe to say she didn't turn out to be a juvenile delequent. )
I never hid reality from any of them, very few movies and television shows were forbidden and they always watched the news with me. And we talked about all of it.
I live in a town where a lot of people don't believe in Television- they always try and tell me how much smarter their kids are and how parents who allow TV are bad parents-- I usually let them run on a bit then tell them that My daughter watched TV from morning to night and not only did she graduate with honors she a supervisor at a Television Station. (I get a kick out of the dumbfounded look they are left with)

My point is simple really (contrary to the novel length post I just wrote) It honestly doesn't matter what you wear,watch or listen to it matters how you TEACH them. How you explain right from wrong. And how you give them your time.

(above bbm)
Thank you for your thought-provoking post.
I simply believe that we teach them (in part) by how we are, which includes how we dress and what we listen to, to name a few ways. Children learn what they live. Sometimes that's a good thing, and sometimes it's not.