Accident or Intentional; Evidence and Debate(MERGED)

[Mountain_Kat]

I too thought about a rag being held in place by the duct tape....but if that was the case, it would have been found with the remains.

As far as Caylee getting sick from chloroform, how do we know she didn't get sick? But I don't think this has been a long time practice of KC's. The computer searches are fairly recent and remember that KC didn't need to resort to such measures very often. She had parents who were all too willing to babysit when they were available.

I am conflicted about where Caylee died though. I was sure it was in the trunk of the car, but the 2 dog hits in the back yard have given me some pause to consider that it actually could have been right in the Anthony's house. KC is so nasty, imo, that I can imagine her drugging and/or taping Caylee because she wanted her to be quiet. And when she realized the baby was dead, contemplated burying her in the playhouse. Then she would have had to deal with the pavers and moving the structure and that was too much work for the princess. Thus, the laundry bag and trash bags and the garbage heap on Suburban Drive for her sweet child's final resting place.

I truly hope that the jury is paying attention to the defense's "case" and recognizes it for what it is...and calls Baez to task by finding his client guilty.

BBM

I originally thought she died in the house too, but then remembered Forgey telling us that a person could cut their finger, bleed on the grass, and when the blood began decomp, dogs would pick that up. Then it occurred to me, she didn't lay Caylee's body out in the backyard where any neighbor might see...she cleaned the shovel off after bagging Caylee in the trunk of the car. My thinking is that Caylee died in the trunk (sans bag), began to decompose and stink up the car (sorry guys). ICA backed into the garage, took laundry bag and plastic bags, borrowed the shovel so as not to touch anything "icky", bagged Caylee, and then went into the backyard to clean the shovel before returning it.

Or at least, that's my theory.

 

[6angels]

I hope it is a Accident....... Because I hope and Pray noone could ever harm there child in this way.....

In the end I think she killed her child. But as most already know I also don't agree with all the JB bashing. I believe Casey needs to spend the rest of her life in Prision for her crimes.( child abuse, False reports to the Cops, Murder etc)


My husband who also follows the case( but not as much as I do) and is a LE Officer thinks she Freaked and didn't report her daughter missing after a Accident. He does not know if the Accident was with the Pool or not but he does not believe she meant to kill Caylee . He also believes she needs to be in Jail for the rest of her life for not reporting it and for covering it up as she has ( as he believes). My husband also thinks Geroge knew about the accident but he was not involved IN the accident but did know about it and the cover up.

 

[aeneas1]

I also think that all of these pieces of evidence do not singularly point to a conviction. But together, they tell a very guilty story.

exactly - which is why the jury will return a verdict that, at the very least, will keep casey behind bars for decades to come...

 

[GeekyGirl]

Since the tape was still found stuck to the skull, wouldn't you presume the soaked rag it would be holding still stuck there too?

Excellent point!! I never even considered that, but you are so right. MOO

 

[Jstc4caylee]

Can someone please clear something up for me, that I really have not put much thought into until today. What is the consensus on how the ladder got put back up at the pool. Cindy is adamant that she took it down, and also that it was up on the 16th.

If Casey, just came up with the drowning defense later,why would she have the foresight to put the ladder up again?
Thanks...I just am getting clouded on this topic..

 

[MissJames]

I hope it is a Accident....... Because I hope and Pray noone could ever harm there child in this way.....

In the end I think she killed her child. But as most already know I also don't agree with all the JB bashing. I believe Casey needs to spend the rest of her life in Prision for her crimes.( child abuse, False reports to the Cops, Murder etc)


My husband who also follows the case( but not as much as I do) and is a LE Officer thinks she Freaked and didn't report her daughter missing after a Accident. He does not know if the Accident was with the Pool or not but he does not believe she meant to kill Caylee . He also believes she needs to be in Jail for the rest of her life for not reporting it and for covering it up as she has ( as he believes). My husband also thinks Geroge knew about the accident but he was not involved IN the accident but did know about it and the cover up.

This confuses me .As a former foster parent for 17 years ,I know parents harm their children in horrible ways every day.Pick any newsday and you can find a horror story about a parent hurting or killing their child. They aren't accidents.What's so special about this case?
LEO's deal with it on a daily basis ,also,so I'm just befuddled that ICA gets a pass here. If anyone has their eyes opened about parents hurting children it's the police ,who know it crosses every socio/economic line.What makes ICA any different?

 

[Soulmagent]

I hope it is a Accident....... Because I hope and Pray noone could ever harm there child in this way.....

In the end I think she killed her child. But as most already know I also don't agree with all the JB bashing. I believe Casey needs to spend the rest of her life in Prision for her crimes.( child abuse, False reports to the Cops, Murder etc)


My husband who also follows the case( but not as much as I do) and is a LE Officer thinks she Freaked and didn't report her daughter missing after a Accident. He does not know if the Accident was with the Pool or not but he does not believe she meant to kill Caylee . He also believes she needs to be in Jail for the rest of her life for not reporting it and for covering it up as she has ( as he believes). My husband also thinks Geroge knew about the accident but he was not involved IN the accident but did know about it and the cover up.

I am kinda wondering why your husband feels she should spend the rest of her life in jail for freaking and hiding an accident. That seems extreme to me for hiding an accident. Compared to other offenders who harm children on purpose not spending life in prison.

 

[6angels]

This confuses me .As a former foster parent for 17 years ,I know parents harm their children in horrible ways every day.Pick any newsday and you can find a horror story about a parent hurting or killing their child. They aren't accidents.What's so special about this case?
LEO's deal with it on a daily basis ,also,so I'm just befuddled that ICA gets a pass here. If anyone has their eyes opened about parents hurting children it's the police ,who know it crosses every socio/economic line.What makes ICA any different?

What exactly are you confused about? That I or my husband has our own opinions?
I was also a Foster Parent( and I was a Foster child) and now Adoptive mom. ETC. SO I am FULLY aware Parents harm their children. I am not giving ANYONE a Pass. It is EASIER for ME to think its a Accident ( I know its not I already said this) I have already said I think she's guilty Ive already said I think she should spend the rest of her life in Prision.

Yes my husband knows also that Parents harm thier children. He see's it all the time. For whatever reason he believe's she did not intend for her daughter to die ( he does not believe she planned it out) . Just bc he is LEO does not mean every case has to be cut and dry for him. He is allowed to have his Own Opinion I respect him enough to allow him to have his own opinions as he does me as well.

He believes that she should spend the Rest of her life in Prision for Child Neglect and Child abuse ( not reporting her child missing and he believes she was a abusive mother in not keeping her daughter safe) . He can not control who spends life in Prision for Crimes they commit. Just because others are not in Prosion for life for Abuse and or Neglect does not mean he does not think they should be.

Edit to Add I did just ask my husband and he did say he believes that Casey neglicted her daughter and that lead to her death but that it was not planned. Take it for what you will but its what he believes.

 

[JustMeDeb]

I think if it truly was an accident and she had come clean at the beginning, she wouldn't be in the situation she is now. But now after following the case, she no regard for anyone or anything. Her actions after the 16th as well as her non emotion in the courtroom hopefully will bring the correct justice.

I was thinking of something today. In her own warped mind, she may want to take the stand. Not only because she thinks she is charming and "such a good liar" everyone will believe her. But I also think, she could also give George, Cindy & Lee one last F.U. She could go up there and say anything she wants, no matter how outrageous. Remember she is in control in her mind.

I for one am hoping she takes the stand. Will have popcorn ready for everyone

 

[6angels]

I am kinda wondering why your husband feels she should spend the rest of her life in jail for freaking and hiding an accident. That seems extreme to me for hiding an accident. Compared to other offenders who harm children on purpose not spending life in prison.

I believe that He thinks she did not intend to kill Caylee but that her Neglect did kill her so maybe "accident" is the wrong word to use. and FYI he believes anyone that harms a child should spend life in Prision but he does not get to pick how long someone stays in Prision he just gets to arrest them and take them to jail and protect as many as he can.

 

[loreet]

I was just rereading Roy Kronk's transcripts and have to credit him for the kernel of this idea.

The week of June 16th must have been within 2 weeks of the last day of school at Hidden Oaks Elementary (the school next to the location where the remains were found). I don't know the exact date school ended in 2008, but this year is was June 7 at Hidden Oaks. Give the teachers a week to finish their paperwork and clear out. NOBODY was around that school. Certainly ICA noticed the difference in traffic flow, the presence or lack of school buses, etc. every single day during the many years since that school had been built.

I live by an elementary school. We plan when we leave and come home for the day to miss the school traffic. UPS drivers and postal employees time their deliveries around the flow of the school day. If I was going to plan a murder and dump a body in the woods next to the school I would wait until 2 weeks after school was released for the summer. I think Casey was watching and waiting every day. If I looked at her hard drive forensics again, I would look for the Hidden Oaks elementary school calendar. I am certain it is just one more piece of the puzzle, as we say, but it is a suspicious one.

 

[Chili Fries]

Maybe this has been discussed...but I think the syringe found in the Gatorade bottle may be pertinent. Perhaps Casey made some kind of chemical concoction which included chloroform and injected it into Caylee. What I'm saying, as awful as it sounds, is that maybe Casey tried multiple methods to murder the poor child until one did it.

 

[Controversialist]

I believe ICA took premeditated actions to end Caylee's life. I believe this primarily because of ICA's two subsequent cover-up attempts.

Why would ICA go to such extreme lengths to cover up a mere accident? She knew in October 2008 that the Fla. Grand Jury was charging her with homicide. What possible reason did she have at that point to continue hiding the accident, thus exposing herself to the full weight of the state seeking her execution?

I think the extremity of ICA's cover up is indicative of the severity of her crime.

:rocker:

 

[jane the dood]

I was just rereading Roy Kronk's transcripts and have to credit him for the kernel of this idea.

The week of June 16th must have been within 2 weeks of the last day of school at Hidden Oaks Elementary (the school next to the location where the remains were found). I don't know the exact date school ended in 2008, but this year is was June 7 at Hidden Oaks. Give the teachers a week to finish their paperwork and clear out. NOBODY was around that school. Certainly ICA noticed the difference in traffic flow, the presence or lack of school buses, etc. every single day during the many years since that school had been built.

I live by an elementary school. We plan when we leave and come home for the day to miss the school traffic. UPS drivers and postal employees time their deliveries around the flow of the school day. If I was going to plan a murder and dump a body in the woods next to the school I would wait until 2 weeks after school was released for the summer. I think Casey was watching and waiting every day. If I looked at her hard drive forensics again, I would look for the Hidden Oaks elementary school calendar. I am certain it is just one more piece of the puzzle, as we say, but it is a suspicious one.

Y'know, that is an excellent point.

 

[veejaye]

Last night, Mark Lippman, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, told Gary Tuchman on CNN's AC 360, that George and Cindy do not believe that Casey is innocent. However, they still love her and if she is convicted, they do not want her to get the death penalty.

I think most of us would agree that after Baez opening statment implicating them, there was no chance for them to hang on to any shred of denial. Baez claimed Cindy negligently left the pool ladder up and George moved the body.

What do all you think? I wonder if the timing of the interview is a push back from the defense's relestless attack on George especially an alleged mistress that is on the defense witness list.

Link to CNN article and video at the link below:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/23/florida.casey.anthony.trial/index.html

 

[veejaye]

Y'know, that is an excellent point.

Last night, Jane Velez-Mitchell did a drive in real time from the Anthony home to the dump site. A camera was mounted inside the car. You drive from 4937 Hopespring Dr. to the end of the block, make a right onto Suburban Drive, go a very short distance and you're there. The drive took one minute and 10 seconds. And Jane Velez-Mitchell was driving slowly.

Quite a few police officers and deputy sheriffs live on her block. Their official cars were packed in the driveways of their homes. Check the link to the google map below:

http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1T4...code_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ8gEwAA

 

[SCWldneart]

Without a doubt, intentional. The motive? Jealousy, plain and simple. KC was jealous of Caylee; jealous of the love and attention that Caylee received from everyone who once doted it all on her. Yes, she loved Caylee, but she grew to bitterly resent her. "Everything has been taken from me"....yes, and given to Caylee. "All they care about is getting Caylee back". "You and Dad have each other, Lee has Mallory....I have no one on my side." What she meant is that she has no one AT her side. She was jealous of everyone whom she thought was living a better life than she was. She became best buddies with AH, who just happened to be living in the same apt. as her ex, Ricardo. Her reason is so obvious. It gave her an excuse to stay over at Ricardo's, even after they broke up. All of KC's new friends were living the Bella Vita and she resented them for it because she couldn't be part of it. But most of all, she resented Caylee. Caylee became excess baggage that no one wanted any part of, ultimately, KC included. She wanted to be free to live the lifestyle all of her friends were living but that couldn't happen as long as she was living under her parent's roof. She couldn't afford a place of her own, obviously, couldn't afford to take care of Caylee and her needs, so her only solution, her only escape from her parent's rule, was to shack up with her boyfriend. She couldn't take Caylee with her, but neither could she leave Caylee with her parents. They would never allow her to do such a thing. The way KC saw it, her parents were using Caylee to control her, to keep her under their thumb. She knew they would never let her take Caylee out of their home which added to her increasing resentment for
Caylee. Caylee was suffocating her, binding her and restricting her and taking away her freedom; keeping her locked into a life she hated. Is it any wonder she did the same thing to Caylee that she believed Caylee had done to her?
Some people can't fathom how a mother could kill her child, but what needs to be pointed out, particularly in this case, is that, although KC loved Caylee, the love she had for her was not the love a mother has for a child. KC never developed a maternal bond with Caylee. That role was assumed by Cindy. The relationship between KC and Caylee was more likened to that of siblings.....in this case, Cain and Able.