AFTER the hearing - who do you find more credible?

[ilovewings]

i have a different take on the situation: we will never know the truth---her version of events will never be proven and neither will his: but, the hearing gave us a window into exactly who Brett Kavanaugh is, a very unusual situation. Supreme Court Justices sort of live in the shadows- we don't know much about most of them----except for Clarence Thomas. The window into Brett Kavanaugh did not present a pretty picture. I can understand his anger; being accused of a sexual attack that occurred 36 years ago, without any corroboration is upsetting. However, he was not able to control his emotions, which he should have been able to do given all of the coaching he had. His anger was enormous: it took over the room- his face was twisted in hate- He was in a rage. and my friends, his hate is directed towards the democrats. He vilified the democrats while praising Trump to the hilt.

After all is said and done, if he is nominated to the Supreme Court we will have a jurist that is clearly biased against democrats; the position of a supreme court justice is supposed to be non-partisan. that is not Brett Kavanaugh, and on that basis IMO he is not fit to be a supreme court judge.

 

[Poppyflower]

I believe Dr. Ford. I found Kavanaugh to be out of control and scary.

 

[Elley Mae]

This is a BS poll, the alleged rapist?

There was no rape.

 

[kaen]

After letting the dust settle in my frustrated mind, I continue to look at that temperament we saw. His behavior against Klobuchar was inexcusable and transparent as to how he looks upon those who challenge him. He was spared having to publicly answer questions on his previous rulings, writings and actions because the White House refused to release them. I am almost sure if he had to defend his previous stances evidenced in emails/letters/directives/decisions he would have gotten to the point of being ballistic and non-cooperative in the way he was with Klobuchar.

He may or may not have done things (he remembers or doesn't remember) to Dr. Ford. And, he may have been angry at the way he was caught in the crossfire of a partisan congress who can't be civil or work across the aisle. However that kind of behavior doesn't just emerge after this kind of crisis. I would venture to guess that whenever he doesn't get what he wants or thinks he deserves he is belligerent. He demonstrated that with Klobuchar who he claimed to respect and think fondly of.

 

[1&2&3]

When does a person who has no proof to back up her claims get this far with her accusations?

And, to top it off, it was 36 years ago.

While on the other hand, who has a calendar from 36 years ago detailing their activities? Really??

Maybe the FBI could start with one of the other notations on Kavanaugh’s calendar in checking the accuracy of it.

 

[neesaki]

wow...No one corroborated any of her accusations against him. The most recent accusation, that he was in a crew that gang raped girls for TWO YEARS of high school, was a pathetic joke. His daughters had to hear of these accusations, which are totally unfounded.

And it seems that everyone here is mocking him, assuming he is a rapist? Wondering why he seemed upset and unhinged?

wow...our country is in a very bad way. Does #metoo now mean that every accusation, even uncorroborated ones from 40 years ago are automatically TRUE?

This man has devoted his entire life to public service. He has no history of being a drunk. He partied in high school and college, like every other student I know.

He wouldn't have accomplished what he did if he had been a hapless, blackout drunk. He was first in his class, lettered in 3 sports and did lots of charity/volunteer work.

And a woman can say he groped her 40 years ago, and no one else remembers it but her---and I am supposed to throw this man out on his ear, on her word?

Her therapist never wrote down HIS name. How do we know it was him?

Why doesn't she know whose house she was in? How can he fight the charges, give an alibi if she doesn't know where they were? Did she go to parties at 15 where she didn't know whose party it was?

It saddens me that everyone is so absolutely certain that he is guilty. But without any real evidence. My son's best friend was arrested and charged with date rape in his 2nd year of college. It nearly ruined his entire life. SHE LIED AND FALSELY ACCUSED HIM. After 6 months the cops realized it was a lie and dropped the charges but the major damage was done already.

This is very sad...

I’m so sorry about your son. You make a good point about the effects of false accusations. There was a young man in my community that was falsely accused of rape who committed suicide. Tragic, whether these are false I gave no idea.

 

[LietKynes]

Not only did I feel the sincerity and anguish in her testimony, but what really solidified my feeling is when he referred to 'this thing'. Sexual assault is just that...not 'this thing'. I wonder if any of his loved ones were ever sexually assaulted if he would refer to it as 'this thing'.

BBM

Agreed. No, it is not.
(sorry, needed to edit this post to clarify)

But if he knows he didn't assault anyone... than it IS "this thing".
"This thing" (alleged assault) , aka a "false accusation".
I'm thinking that's what he meant.
And of course he wouldn't take it lightly if this happened to his relative.

I can understand his frustration if he hasn't assaulted anyone !

This should have been investigated years ago.
It's very possible Ms. Ford reported him to her parents, her friends, and the police .
So I'd assume they filed a report -- and then they just blew her off , not taking her seriously ?
If so, shame on them !

And why didn't the FBI do a proper investigation (about Ford's remembrances and accusations) by now ?

Why didn't they investigate as soon as D. Feinstein received the letter about the accusations ?
Not trying to sound too political, just pointing out the obvious.

I realize they conducted some investigations on Kavanaugh previously, but were they sloppy, incompetent ones ?

One would think the FBI should've done a professional investigation; because if Kavanaugh was prone to assaulting every woman he came across-- -wouldn't he be flagged as a security risk ?

My friend from childhood -- vehemently disagrees.
She says that it's time for America to change .
Time for men (esp. men in her opinion) to be charged and convicted based on a woman's feelings and recollections.
We respectfully agree to disagree on many issues. Lol, she's a die hard feminist and I'm not. So our friendship "coexists".

 

[LietKynes]

This is a BS poll, the alleged rapist?

There was no rape.

BBM

That's what I thought.

Although some women would classify groping as 'rape and assault'.
I do not .
My friend was groped in 9th grade ; when a boy pinched her bottom.
She hasn't accused him of 'rape' at all.
And that has not caused her any suffering over the years.

Somewhere there must be a police report floating around regarding Ford's assaults by the boys in school.
Assault is traumatic and often the first thing a girl/lady would do is to report it. In order to receive justice , and to "name and shame" the attacker.

I know we can't become too political in this forum.
It'd be nice to have a thread open for just politics, lol.

 

[LietKynes]

Never mind about Feinstein.(Had to backtrack about information)
Obviously haven't been following this as much as some.

She (Diane Feinstein) had the information since July. She could have started an FBI investigation immediately.... but she held onto this letter until now.
Maybe SHE should be investigated ?

 

[neesaki]

BBM

That's what I thought.
Although some women would classify groping as rape and assault.
Did Kavanaugh grope anyone in high school ?

Somewhere there must be a police report floating around regarding Ford's assaults by the boys in school.
Assault is traumatic and often the first thing a girl/lady would do is to report it. In order to receive justice , and to name and shame the attacker.

I know we can't become too political in this forum.
It'd be nice to have a thread open for just politics, lol.

If some women consider gro

BBM

That's what I thought.
Although some women would classify groping as rape and assault.
Did Kavanaugh grope anyone in high school ?

Somewhere there must be a police report floating around regarding Ford's assaults by the boys in school.
Assault is traumatic and often the first thing a girl/lady would do is to report it. In order to receive justice , and to name and shame the attacker.

I know we can't become too political in this forum.
It'd be nice to have a thread open for just politics, lol.

Trying again, this new forum does not, for some reason like IPads. I had never had problems before....

Re: your comment as groping as rape and assault, then I suppose I should have considered the incidents I had with boys as such. Which, btw, I do not.
I have come to the point that I’m thinking Dr. Ford might have some personal issues.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

BBM

That's what I thought.
Although some women would classify groping as rape and assault.
Did Kavanaugh grope anyone in high school ?

Somewhere there must be a police report floating around regarding Ford's assaults by the boys in school.
Assault is traumatic and often the first thing a girl/lady would do is to report it. In order to receive justice , and to name and shame the attacker.

I know we can't become too political in this forum.
It'd be nice to have a thread open for just politics, lol.

Cariis obviously made a typo. We're discussing serious allegations of sexual assault.

And you're wrong in stating the first thing a "lady" would do is report it to "name and shame the attacker."

Proof:

Crime Reports

• Rape is the most under-reported crime; 63% of sexual assaults are not reported to police (m)
• The prevalence of false reporting is low between 2% and 10%. For example, a study of eight U.S. communities, which included 2,059 cases of sexual assault, found a 7.1% rate of false reports (i). A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston found a 5.9% rate of false reports (h). Researchers studied 812 reports of sexual assault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1% rate of false reports (g).

Proof:

Unfounded reports:

An unfounded report is a case that is investigated and found to be either false or baseless. The ‘unfounded’ classification is often confused with false allegations, in part because the definitions may seem similar. For example, unfounded cases include those that law enforcement believes do not meet the legal criteria for rape. It does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from the legal perspective, in that jurisdiction, the case does not meet the legal criteria, or it is “baseless.”

• False report: A false report is a reported crime to a law enforcement agency that an investigation factually proves never occurred.

• Baseless report: A baseless report is one in which it is determined that the incident does not meet the elements of the crime, but is presumed truthful. Similarly, "unsubstantiated report" terminology is not generally used for UCR purposes, but is often used in regular language and child abuse reporting. To be unsubstantiated, a report must “provide insufficient evidence to determine whether or not crime occurred.” ​

 

[Poppyflower]

Never mind about Feinstein.(Had to backtrack about information)
Obviously haven't been following this as much as some.

She (Diane Feinstein) had the information since July. She could have started an FBI investigation immediately.... but she held onto this letter until now.
Maybe SHE should be investigated ?

She was asked to not say anything about it. She respected Dr. Ford and didn't release it. Dr. Ford put in her information of BK sexually assaulting her when there was a list of nominees. She was nervous this would happen.

Dr. Ford also told her therapist about the sexual assault in 2012.

 

[LietKynes]

If some women consider gro


Trying again, this new forum does not, for some reason like IPads. I had never had problems before....

Re: your comment as groping as rape and assault, then I suppose I should have considered the incidents I had with boys as such. Which, btw, I do not.
I have come to the point that I’m thinking Dr. Ford might have some personal issues.

Yes, the WS forum has been majorly lagging for me today.
I edited my post to reflect my views.

 

[Poppyflower]

BBM

That's what I thought.

Although some women would classify groping as 'rape and assault'.
I do not .
My friend was groped in 9th grade ; when a boy pinched her bottom.
She hasn't accused him of 'rape' at all.
And that has not caused her any suffering over the years.

Somewhere there must be a police report floating around regarding Ford's assaults by the boys in school.
Assault is traumatic and often the first thing a girl/lady would do is to report it. In order to receive justice , and to "name and shame" the attacker.

I know we can't become too political in this forum.
It'd be nice to have a thread open for just politics, lol.

Oh, I see you changed your post...anyway...

It was inappropriate for anyone to touch your friend that way.

Found your original:
Although some women would classify groping as rape and assault.
Did Kavanaugh grope anyone in high school ?"

Many PEOPLE classify groping when not wanted sexual assault. So does the law.

*It is NEVER ok to grope someone that doesn't want to be groped.*

 

[human]

The behavior he exhibited is bizarre. Can anyone imagine if they acted that way at a job interview?

As women, we have been taught that on the job we cannot cry or show emotion or we are considered too emotioanal to have responsiblity.

His performance defied all decorum . Shocking.

 

[Poppyflower]

The behavior he exhibited is bizarre. Can anyone imagine if they acted that way at a job interview?

As women, we have been taught that on the job we cannot cry or show emotion or we are considered too emotioanal to have responsiblity.

His performance defied all decorum . Shocking.

Imagine if he had some brewskis in him!

No, not everyone is a mean drunk but his friends say he is. I don't even want to imagine. I could not deal with someone like that.

 

[LietKynes]

Oh, I see you changed your post...anyway...

It was inappropriate for anyone to touch your friend that way.

Found your original:
Although some women would classify groping as rape and assault.
Did Kavanaugh grope anyone in high school ?"

Many PEOPLE classify groping when not wanted sexual assault. So does the law.

*It is NEVER ok to grope someone that doesn't want to be groped.*

Emph. mine

My friend immediately told her parents (after school) and her teacher --that same day.
Her dad talked to him on the phone and it didn't happen again.
Her teacher wasn't very supportive, unfortunately !

But I see your point.
I think the laws were lacking back in the day.
And there's no point to having a law and not following through with it.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

I would be very uncomfortable if I had to cast a vote because I have no idea. I found Dr. Ford very credible and cried with her and I also found Kavanaugh credible and got teary watching him choke up when speaking about his daughters.

I was really surprised by his interaction with Klobuchar. I was surprised that he wouldn’t answer her and I found that to be characteristic of his temperament. I was also surprised that he wouldn’t agree to an FBI investigation.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

One would think the FBI should've done a professional investigation; because if Kavanaugh was prone to assaulting every woman he came across-- -wouldn't he be flagged as a security risk ?

Snipped and bolded for focus.

Respectfully ... whaaaaaat?!?

This sort of extreme exaggeration only sucks all the wind out of arguments, deflating them, because people start arguing against their own black-white misrepresentations instead of the actual issue.

The concern isn't about whether he assaults "every woman he comes across."

Never has been, imo.

I'm confused as to where that came from. Help me understand.

MOO and such.

 

[ilovewings]

BBM

That's what I thought.

Although some women would classify groping as 'rape and assault'.
I do not .
My friend was groped in 9th grade ; when a boy pinched her bottom.
She hasn't accused him of 'rape' at all.
And that has not caused her any suffering over the years.

Somewhere there must be a police report floating around regarding Ford's assaults by the boys in school.
Assault is traumatic and often the first thing a girl/lady would do is to report it. In order to receive justice , and to "name and shame" the attacker.

I know we can't become too political in this forum.
It'd be nice to have a thread open for just politics, lol.

I totally agree with you and i think the word "assault" is thrown around too easily. I do not consider Ms. Ford to have been assaulted- she was groped; she was not raped.
There are many women who really have been raped and sexually assaulted and that is a horse of a different color than what happened to Ms. Ford IMO