AL - 9-Year-Old Charged With Poisoning Stepmom, Siblings

[southcitymom]

Let us say, that my experience on how to say things politely has been colored vividly by a different message board I belong to. There is an entire forum there, where flaming (within reason, no death threats, no personal info posted and the like) is permitted. The rest of the board, is dedicated to fighting ignorance. Here is one example from that board, this is another, and yet another by the previous author. (You might be able to guess my identity there, but please do not post it here, it is my "net safety" ID.*) The person who inspired the board, is known not only for their wit, but also their cutting snarky humor. I am a product of those boards, and actually I have toned things down here *A LOT* compared to what I would say in the BBQ Pit there. I am working to remain "halfway" while posting here, but I do have limits, and "hotbuttons", just like anybody else.

*Also, read all the rules, FAQs, posting and etiquette guides before joining and know that after 30 days your guest membership expires and you either must pay to remain a member or lose your membership, there are members who sponser others, some new guests have either asked or been gifted with memberships, I've been sponsered myself. Repeat guests are found out and perma-banned. I get along there pretty well, with the exception of the subset of the boards known as "snarkers" who are worse even than the topics I linked to, by FAR.

I definitely hear how a board like that could temper you, KatK. I feel like most of the posters here feel very strongly about their own opinions too.

One of the things that makes Websleuths such an amazing place, IMHO, is that the people here can disagree vehemently, but remain kind and considerate. That is a super special aspect of this place and I do not wish for it to change.

That doesn't mean that we are humorless or that we don't get snarky from time to time. I felt a bit bitchy getting involved in this, but Amraann (a person who I definitely don't always see eye-to-eye with about certain issues) is someone I care about and someone who, without fail, cares a great deal about people who have suffered abuse.

I am glad you are here KatK and do look forward to hearing more about some of your experiences and opinions. I'd just prefer that they not be wrapped around aggression towards other posters.

 

[texasgirl]

WOW! I have a nine-year-old and she still watches Spongebob and things like that....I can't imagine her even knowing about this kind of thing!

 

[Taximom]

WOW! I have a nine-year-old and she still watches Spongebob and things like that....I can't imagine her even knowing about this kind of thing!

For years I've heard about what shows or movies "other kids in my (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th grades) class" get to watch from my two middle children. Shows like CSI and R-rated movies I'll probably never see myself! So yeah, I can see a 9 yr old doing something he might have picked up from a tv show or movie, not realizing the seriousness of the action. Or maybe he did realize the seriousness, who knows.

It's really sad though and I hope they all get some kind of counseling before it's really too late. Hopefully it's not.

 

[angelmom]

Not sure. Of my 3 kids, 2 of them I'd say no way. My middle one is a little more of a maybe. He is very smart and creative and mischevious. When he is mad, the things he says hurt much worse than the other two saying, "You're mean!" or "No fair!"

He's much more likely to pull out the big guns. Once he wrote me a note and left it on my pillow when I was in a very busy time for DH's/our business and obviously wasn't giving him enough attention (normally I am a SAHM). It said, "Dear Mom, good night. Love, C. P.S. You were too busy working to see me write this."

There are girls at school who pick on people, and he thinks up all kinds of embarrassing things he wishes would happen to them. They are very elaborate.

If he were mad enough, being hurt or bullied in some way, or felt threatened at all, I absolutely think he could come up with this. I don't know that he'd think it would kill someone, but he might think they'd get sick and have to leave the house and go to the hospital.

Especially since it wasn't a poison or even a household cleaner - it was a water conditioner for an aquarium. This boy probably figured it couldn't do too much harm if it didn't kill the fish. And actually, he was right.

I hope they take a good hard look at the home situation.

 

[nanandjim]

I am wondering if this 9-year-old is living with his biological father. If so, why didn't he try to poison him? Anyway, I think that this 9-year-old is trying to act out any way that he can. Perhaps, his parents have jumped from relationship to relationship and have not had a stable or loving environment for these kids.

I agree that this boy needs help. He also would probably be better off if they could find him a stable, loving home in which to live.

 

[KatK]

Wow- just wow, KatK!

I have to tell y'all- my Biological father was a woman abuser and had he not killed himself before I was old enough to do something about it, I'd have attempted to do much worse to him than Amraann did to the man who harmed her sister!

Perhaps it was the ABUSERS that made her,..and me..and millions of others who lived in abusive homes as children because our mothers didn't leave their abusive spouses, "troubled" !?!

I do get that, it's sort of a "burning bed" situation, and I don't blame you at all for your feelings. :truce:

I guess I was fed up with all the "blaming the victim" and "caring about one victim's feelings over another's" that I percieved was going on yesterday. It seemed that not one iota of empathy was in that person's posts for the adults in both topics. Especially here, what was said here was the "final straw" to me. Especially considering that I see it that it's very likely the kid was just "born" that way, not made.

 

[KatK]

I am glad you are here KatK and do look forward to hearing more about some of your experiences and opinions. I'd just prefer that they not be wrapped around aggression towards other posters.

Thank you. Clarifying a bit. I was upset at the other member's POSTS, not them IRL. There is a difference, and if I disagree with someone here, I am addressing their posts/attitude/actions as posted here. I am not hating on them as a person. Most likely I'd get along with the poster I grouched at on the forums, in person. I do tell it like it is though, even with myself. I'm harder on myself than anyone else.

I phrased my posts strongly yes, but it's because I know my head is hard when I'm in the throes of my own opinions and my passions are roused. (As I percieved the other member's passions were roused.) I know it takes a bit to get through to me in that state, and so it probably takes a bit to get through to others, as well. Point is: I do speak plainly at times. That's the extent of it.

Tangent: My best friend recently thanked me for "telling it like it was" years ago, because I told off the fellow she was dating for being rude enough to correct my grammar as a guest in my parents' house. I was using the proper grammar, he was being an *advertiser censored* trying to "put me in my place" (he was a controlling jerk, and once he realized I was a "smart girl" he started to deride my intellect) and she told me I had read the situation right, and said he abused her. I kicked him out of my parents' house and told him not to come back, and told her she was welcome, he was not.

 

[Ntegrity]

SO...... lets please all unofficially poll here ... who thinks a 9 YO could do this??

I darn sure do! If you don't believe it, you really should study up on sociopathy. Sociopaths are capable of horrendous crimes even at 9 years of age. They don't need a reason (as if there is a good reason for poisoning your family ).

and Q #2 who thinks that if an actual 9 YO did this.. then who thinks the parents are totally responsible??

I don't see anything stated in that short article that would make me blame the victims for their misfortune.

 

[sherri79]

I darn sure do! If you don't believe it, you really should study up on sociopathy. Sociopaths are capable of horrendous crimes even at 9 years of age. They don't need a reason (as if there is a good reason for poisoning your family ).


I don't see anything stated in that short article that would make me blame the victims for their misfortune.

100% agree. please keep in mind we only tend to hear of the "evil" step moms on this site. most women are good imo. they will love any child that comes in their home. i know i can't help but love a child. most the time police are not idiots. if they think this child is troubled and think the step mom is a victim they just might be right.

 

[txsvicki]

If this boy is severely mentally ill, I wonder if juvenile detention is the best place for him. Looks like a children's mental hospital would be better.

 

[sherri79]

If this boy is severely mentally ill, I wonder if juvenile detention is the best place for him. Looks like a children's mental hospital would be better.

juvenile may not be where he ends up. i would think at trial they would explore issues about his mental health. even if they find him stark raving mad it may not matter. mental hospitals for children with this degree of violent behavior at such a young age are rare.

 

[KatK]

Don't they have a treatment program that has sometimes worked for children who are shown to be psychopaths? I think it's not proven, and the psychiatric community is in some debate over it though. The one I am thinking of teaches the child to choose to follow society's rules, by showing them it is to their benefit to do so.

 

[sherri79]

Don't they have a treatment program that has sometimes worked for children who are shown to be psychopaths? I think it's not proven, and the psychiatric community is in some debate over it though. The one I am thinking of teaches the child to choose to follow society's rules, by showing them it is to their benefit to do so.

there are lots of unproven methods. rebirthing comes to mind. the 1 u listed actually sounds like it may have promise. the problem is we are talking about a child that is a criminal. even if not guilty because of mental illness we are still talking about a child that has commited crimes of a very serious nature. most hospitals are not ready to deal with that. if he was older say 15 it would be easier to place him imo.

 

[Ntegrity]

Don't they have a treatment program that has sometimes worked for children who are shown to be psychopaths? I think it's not proven, and the psychiatric community is in some debate over it though. The one I am thinking of teaches the child to choose to follow society's rules, by showing them it is to their benefit to do so.

There's nothing I'm aware of that can "reform" a sociopath. My son spent nearly 2-1/2 years in a therapeutic wilderness camp that was supposed to help. It didn't. The program was based on peer pressure and logical consequences for antisocial behavior. It was fabulous for the kids that had the ability to change. Our son didn't happen to be one of those. One of the boys in that program murdered his mother while on a weekend home visit. To my knowledge, it was a good, loving family who did everything they knew to help their son.

Parents aren't always to blame. Sociopaths are born, not made. That's not to say that an abusive home won't make a bad situation worse, but experts in the field agree it's far more about nature than nurture. I'm also not saying the 9 year old we're discussing is a sociopath. We don't have enough information to judge at this point.

 

[KatK]

Parents aren't always to blame. Sociopaths are born, not made. That's not to say that an abusive home won't make a bad situation worse, but experts in the field agree it's far more about nature than nurture. I'm also not saying the 9 year old we're discussing is a sociopath. We don't have enough information to judge at this point.

Agreed. ETA: It might also have been more like what another poster said, they only meant to make the person ill, not kill them. (Though what the boy used on his siblings isn't named either.) I can see it either way. Either he was just trying to pull a mean spirited prank, or it was more sinister. In any case, blaming the victims isn't helpful at all. The child needs counseling.

The method I read about was pretty new, and it did say that it didn't have much of a success rate. The theory behind the program you mentioned does sound very similar. My heart goes out to you, also, I can't imagine the pain you must have daily.

 

[txsvicki]

Don't they have a treatment program that has sometimes worked for children who are shown to be psychopaths? I think it's not proven, and the psychiatric community is in some debate over it though. The one I am thinking of teaches the child to choose to follow society's rules, by showing them it is to their benefit to do so.

That type of treatment sounds very sensible and could help a child psychopath to understand why he has no empathy or has criminal thoughts and how to try and learn how to choose the best way.

 

[KatK]

That type of treatment sounds very sensible and could help a child psychopath to understand why he has no empathy or has criminal thoughts and how to try and learn how to choose the best way.

The article I read about it went on to say paraphrased: That doesn't mean the person won't be a horrible co-worker/boss, and won't do underhanded (quasi-legal) things to get ahead, or step all over people's feelings, because they might still. They just won't commit terrible crimes to get ahead, and they will tone it down if they can see they are making trouble for themselves.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have always been a firm believer that there is no changing a Psychopath. I don't even know if I consider it a mental illness. Not that I'm saying I have the right to decide, mind you! LOL. But Wow, what a great idea y'all are tossing around! I wonder if they are found and taught early enough if it would/could make a difference!

katK- I honestly don't think Amraann was "bashing" victims or "caring about one victim's feelings over another's" in that other thread. What I got out of what she said was that adults have a choice, children don't. Adults bring children into the world, they don't ask to be born, and it is their job to keep their children safe no matter what !! So although an abused woman (or an abused man for that matter) is indeed a victim, the most innocent, helpless victim is their child(ren).

Many of us here at WS are very passionate about child abuse (physical or emotional) perhaps moreso than we are about spousal abuse. Everyone here kinda has their "cause" but just because we may not share the same one doesn't mean we don't care about it at all.

Typically the only time I post is when Mental illness or Scientology is being discussed. Amraann is more vocal when it comes to societies most vunerable, children!

Again, I don't think she was being mean!

 

[Ntegrity]

I have always been a firm believer that there is no changing a Psychopath. I don't even know if I consider it a mental illness.

You would be 100% correct and, no, it isn't classified as mental illness.

 

[KatK]

I have always been a firm believer that there is no changing a Psychopath. I don't even know if I consider it a mental illness.

You would be 100% correct and, no, it isn't classified as mental illness.

No, you can't "make them better" but some you can convince some of them to act (mostly) within society's rules because it's what benefits *them* best. There are a lot of psychopaths out living in society, and most of them never commit an atrocious crime, because while they don't have empathy, and don't understand how others have value (outside of tools for their own gain) they do understand they might get caught and face consequences. ETA: This doesn't mean they won't do "white collar" crime though. The program I was thinking of, was aimed at helping the child psychopath choose to go down that path. Some psychopaths never do get caught, and apparenty don't break the law either. (This doesn't mean they are nice people to be around though.) ETA: A link that explains more fully what I am trying to get across.