Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #2

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I find this case very confusing and I need something clarified: Do authorities know for sure if Halyna was shot with blanks, or live rounds?
 
Datchery said:
I've seen this sentiment a few times, and it is really unfair, IMO.

I'm not sure that AB would have done anything different if he had been holding the gun to his own head. Maybe he would have. Maybe he wouldn't have. I doubt he would have checked anything himself if he were jumping out of a plane, as he likely wouldn't know what he was checking for. He would rely on the expert hired for that purpose.

In any case, no one knows what he would have done, so it isn't fair to criticize him on the assumption he would have taken more care in some hypothetical case in which he was at personal risk.
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Gray Hughes has been covering the case for the last few nights, and gave a clever analogy.

Say you were a surgeon. You go in for an operation and ask a technician for a scalpel. Are you going to inspect and/or test the scalpel before you cut into your patient? No, your job is to focus on operating, not inspecting the tools you are using to operate. You heavily rely on your techs to have inspected all the tools before going into such a situation.

Alec had a job in this particular situation, and that was to act, to the best of his ability. Should he have checked the gun, considering he was a producer on the movie? Maybe? Not likely though. His job in that moment was to act. There were 2 other people the gun was passed through before AB was handed it, and both of those 2 people did have jobs to check the gun. He relied on both of them to hand him a safe gun. Unfortunately, they both failed him.

I do not have a very high opinion of AB as a person, but I do not find him responsible for the accidental shooting. I think it's an absolute tragedy, and I hope he finds a way to live with what he's done.

The AD on the other hand...very interesting that he has been on 2 sets with "accidental" shootings. The fact that he was AD on "The Crow: Salvation" is a crazy bizarre coincidence, too! I'm not calling him responsible (yet), but knowing that the armorer was young and new, and people were walking off the set due to safety issues with firearms, he absolutely should have inspected (and then inspected again!) the barrel to double check her. He was negligent, at best, and has the attention of my side-eye.

Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting Film AD Was Fired Before For Gun Discharge – Deadline
 
everybodhi said:
The danger doesn't happen until after he *advertiser censored* it, I would think that comes as he aims, just before pulling the trigger.
Unless he accidentally cocked it while making the draw with his finger already on the trigger.
If he did that, he needs alot more practice with an empty gun.
Click to expand...

Your thinking is right in the safety sense. But.... my guess is that old west gunslingers cocked their weapon immediately after drawing the weapon and then placed their finger on the trigger while moving the weapon to the target. Thus, they could fire instantly after aiming.

That aside, this could be the circumstances of the scene:

- In one very fast, fluid motion, the actor cross draws the weapon, *advertiser censored* it immediately upon drawing, places his finger on the trigger and aims in- ready for instant firing.

- The scene does not involve firing the weapon. Thus, Baldwin is handed what is believed to be a "cold" weapon. "Cold" denotes that it is neither loaded with blanks nor live ammunition.

- But.... cocking the weapon allows it to be fired with very little pressure on the trigger- not quite a hair trigger, but close. Likewise, a convincing Olde West cross draw and aim using with one fast, fluid motion is difficult.

- Baldwin accidently pulls the trigger either in the midst of the cross draw, or upon aiming it (in this case at the camera). No worries- the weapon is "cold" as a safety measure. But... the weapon was loaded..... .
 
This was confirmed in the presser IMO

‘Rust’ Tragedy: Police Have Not ‘Ruled Out’ Any Charges, Have Recovered Bullet and 500 Additional Rounds

AP21298785293761.jpg

AP
Authorities believe a lead bullet removed by doctors from the shoulder of “Rust” director Joel Souza is the same one that struck and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, and was fired out of a gun shot by actor Alec Baldwin on the New Mexico set of the film last Thursday.
 
jjenny said:
Blanks don't fire the lead projectile (bullet). She was hit with an actual lead projectile (bullet). So it was a live round in the gun.
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Thanks, that helps! I just wasn’t sure if it was confirmed that she was killed with live ammo, or just speculation. Experts here have said that you can be killed by blanks. It’s a tragedy all around, but the fact that AB unknowingly fired a live round at her (and the director) is horrific.

As far as culpability goes, let me try to make a comparison. Say you’re a doctor working on a complicated medical procedure, where everyone has a different job. You have people who check drugs for quality and expiration, someone else who measures the dose and logs it, a different person whose job it is to put the drug into the syringe, etc. Everything is double and triple checked. So at the appropriate time, a nurse hands the syringe to the doctor and says, “X mg of Y drug.” The Dr gives the injection but it’s the wrong drug and the patient dies. Is it the Dr’s fault?
I’m just putting forth this scenario because supposedly AB was told “COLD GUN” when it was handed to him. AB is not a firearms expert, an ammunition expert, or a prop gun expert. He is an actor. He was trusting the person who handed him the gun that they knew what they (and the people who prepped it)were doing.

At first glance it seems like Halls and Gutierrez bear the most blame.

MOO and Amateur Speculation
 
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Nanceedroo said:
Thanks, that helps! I just wasn’t sure if it was confirmed that she was killed with live ammo, or just speculation. Experts here have said that you can be killed by blanks. It’s a tragedy all around, but the fact that AB unknowingly fired a live round at her (and the director) is horrific.

As far as culpability goes, let me try to make a comparison. Say you’re a doctor working on a complicated medical procedure, where everyone has a different job. You have people who check drugs for quality and expiration, someone else who measures the dose and logs it, a different person whose job it is to put the drug into the syringe, etc. Everything is double and triple checked. So at the appropriate time, a nurse hands the syringe to the doctor and says, “X mg of Y drug.” The Dr gives the injection but it’s the wrong drug and the patient dies. Is it the Dr’s fault?
I’m just putting forth this scenario because supposedly AB was told “COLD GUN” when it was handed to him. AB is not a firearms expert, an ammunition expert, or a prop gun expert. He is an actor. He was trusting the person who handed him the gun that they knew what they (and the people who prepped it)were doing.

At first glance it seems like Halls and Gutierrez bear the most blame.

MOO and Amateur Speculation
Click to expand...
I believe LE has said the the projectile is being examined. But from what has been released it appears that it was indeed an actual bullet from a live round.

In regards to your doctor scenario, the doctor would likely be the one sued and his insurance would pay. Were you asking if the doctor is morally responsible or is he legally responsible?
 
I am interested in the effects of this situation moving forward in movies and TV shows with guns.

This seems to be a complete anomaly, as far as movie set shootings go...will this one situation change anything? Or will there be a knee jerk reaction to ban all real guns on sets?

Or will there be more emphasis on training and following strict rules? Maybe armorers should be licensed, not unlike many other professions.
 
swedeheart said:
Gray Hughes has been covering the case for the last few nights, and gave a clever analogy.

Say you were a surgeon. You go in for an operation and ask a technician for a scalpel. Are you going to inspect and/or test the scalpel before you cut into your patient? No, your job is to focus on operating, not inspecting the tools you are using to operate. You heavily rely on your techs to have inspected all the tools before going into such a situation.

Alec had a job in this particular situation, and that was to act, to the best of his ability. Should he have checked the gun, considering he was a producer on the movie? Maybe? Not likely though. His job in that moment was to act. There were 2 other people the gun was passed through before AB was handed it, and both of those 2 people did have jobs to check the gun. He relied on both of them to hand him a safe gun. Unfortunately, they both failed him.

I do not have a very high opinion of AB as a person, but I do not find him responsible for the accidental shooting. I think it's an absolute tragedy, and I hope he finds a way to live with what he's done.

The AD on the other hand...very interesting that he has been on 2 sets with "accidental" shootings. The fact that he was AD on "The Crow: Salvation" is a crazy bizarre coincidence, too! I'm not calling him responsible (yet), but knowing that the armorer was young and new, and people were walking off the set due to safety issues with firearms, he absolutely should have inspected (and then inspected again!) the barrel to double check her. He was negligent, at best, and has the attention of my side-eye.

Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting Film AD Was Fired Before For Gun Discharge – Deadline
Click to expand...

My brother-in-law is a surgeon, he checks all instruments and prep before they begin surgery, I think all surgeons do. Yes, he relies on the nurses to hand him the right instrument but he knows if the wrong instrument is put in his hand and he will not proceed if that happens.
I understand AB is acting, I don’t understand that that the actual actor holding the gun being required to open the gun/being verified the gun was indeed empty in conjunction with the AD/armourer is not part of the safety protocol. Repeating myself, but that is gun safety 101. I personally think it’s a pretty lousy excuse to say somebody does not have the time or the mental space to do one more safety check when they’re handling a deadly fire arm. I hope that changes in the future. The unsafe atmosphere on the set, the way it was allowed to run, cutting corners to save money, all contributed to this senseless death and as one of the producers, Alec will be liable for that. MOO
 
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PrairieWind said:
In regards to your doctor scenario, the doctor would likely be the one sued and his insurance would pay. Were you asking if the doctor is morally responsible or is he legally responsible?
Click to expand...
I suppose I meant legally since if it was a mistake there wouldn’t be a moral issue per se. But I would think the hospital would conduct some kind of investigation into how the wrong drug ended up in the syringe to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
 
Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
My brother-in-law is a surgeon, he checks all instruments and prep before they begin surgery, I think all surgeons do. Yes, he relies on the nurses to hand him the right instrument but he knows if the wrong instrument is put in his hand and he will not proceed if that happens.
I understand AB is acting, I don’t understand that that the actual actor holding the gun being required to open the gun/being verified the gun was indeed empty in conjunction with the AD/armourer is not part of the safety protocol. Repeating myself, but that is gun safety 101. I personally think it’s a pretty lousy excuse to say somebody does not have the time or the mental space to do one more safety check when they’re handling a deadly fire arm. I hope that changes in the future. The unsafe atmosphere on the set, the way it was allowed to run, cutting corners to save money, all contributed to this senseless death and as a producer Alec will be liable for that. MOO
Click to expand...

I agree! I struggle with the excuse of ' I'm and actor...and I don't have time to be bothered with safety'.....I have my lines to remember....so someone else should be responsible..not me'

Why is this profession 'excused' from performing any safety procedures/protocols themselves? Especially with potential deadly weapons.

Elitism ?
 
Jade said:
If AB was practicing cross draw maybe he was never aiming at anyone. The trigger could have caught as he grabbed the gun from the holster with his non holster side hand in what sounds like an awkward action.

Course he would be flinging it about practicing which isn't good but he thought he had an empty gun.

‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals Details About Fatal Shooting – Read It – Deadline



IMO
Click to expand...
This is a Single Action Only (SA) revolver. The hammer has to be cocked before the trigger is pulled. When the hammer is all the way forward you can pull the trigger all day long and the gun will not fire.

To fire the weapon you take your finger off the trigger and pull the hammer all the way back. This will rotate the cylinder and reset the trigger. The hammer will stay in the cocked position (all the way back) until you squeeze the trigger. When you do squeeze the trigger the hammer will fall forward propelled by a fairly stout spring. Then the hammer hits the primer of the cartridge. The primer makes a miniature explosion inside the cartridge case which ignites the gun powder that is inside the cartridge case. The gun powder then burns and expands very quickly, so quickly that it sounds like an explosion and makes the typical "bang" sound. The rapidly expanding gun powder is what propels the bullet out of the gun and sends it down range.

Most revolvers sold today are Double Action/Single Action. They can be cocked and fired by the Single Action method I mentioned above or by the Double Action method which is simply pulling the trigger.
 
Frances Fisher remembers cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after Alec Baldwin accidentally killed her | Daily Mail Online

I didn't realize Frances Fisher was also in this movie. Apparently she's the one in the purple dress standing next to Halyna in the cast and crew photo.

I'm very curious about the child actor, Brady Noon. I imagine his parents wouldn't want him to speak publicly. I wouldn’t allow it for my child, either. I just feel extra concerned for him because I understand he was the costar as Alec’s grandson.

I don’t know if he was in the scene, but I believe I did read it somewhere, and I can’t imagine the trauma he’s undergoing if he was present when Halyna was killed. IMO the presence of a child on set makes this even worse. I imagine there are even more rules that govern safety on a set when a minor is present. But I don’t know.
 
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