Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[Betty P]

Her lawyers claim she inspected the rounds, but didn't anticipate there were live rounds on set. So what did she inspect the rounds for? Dummies resemble live rounds, but they are not identical. Per the experienced armorers I have seen interviewed, they are concerned about checking dummies to make sure they are not live rounds.

"Hannah did everything in her power to ensure a safe set. She inspected the rounds that she loaded into the firearms that day. She always inspected the rounds. She did again right before handing the firearm to Mr. Halls, by spinning the cylinder and showing him all of the rounds and then handing him the firearm. No one could have anticipated or thought that someone would introduce live rounds into this set."

‘Rust’ Armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed Backs Up Lawyers’ “Sabotage” Claims – Deadline

I don't believe anything her defense attorney says. He sounds like a typical defense attorney who will say anything. At trial, he's not required to prove anything and can make any spurious claim he can to defend his client.

JMO, it's better to wait until there are results from a full, professional investigation.

 

[Cryptic]

Discrepancies emerge as Alec Baldwin defends ‘Rust’ production, armorer from reported on-set strife

The truth might be devovling to the murky middle:

"they were not given hotel rooms in and around the area so they had to drive back and forth an hour to Albuquerque and they’re unhappy."

One source said that they were given closer hotel room, but they deemed the hotel to be a "homeless shelter" and refused to stay there.

Likewise, a forum member who works in health care and who takes contracts in the "middle of nowhere" related that it is common practice for her employers to offer either a well, basic motel without a drive or a better hotel with a longer drive. She then gets to pick.

In short, perhaps the basic hotel was not offered, or it was substandard. Then again, not every complaint by a union member is valid.

 

[Luna20]

Matt is a lawyer himself. Reuters reports that he works in corporate law out of the L.A. office of Latham & Watkins. He also has a background in entertainment law.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/halyna-hutchins-legal-counsel-wrongful-death-lawsuit

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I wish Luper would have said when he heard this gunfire. It doesn't surprise me that they figured the sounds where not from crew members firing prop guns because everyone knows that live ammo is not allowed on set. JMO.

'Rust' first camera assistant claims Alec Baldwin shooting a result of lack of gun safety protocols

The ranch is 2000 acres, and often used by multiple crews. We need to know what else was going on there.

 

[GatorFL]

The ranch is 2000 acres, and often used by multiple crews. We need to know what else was going on there.

I saw elsewhere other productions were going on concurrently with Rust.

 

[branmuffin]

I saw this elsewhere and thought it would fit here as rationale on why live rounds are sometimes used on movie sets. This is about the Academy Award winning film, The Deer Hunter. In the movie there is a powerful scene of Russian roulette. Apparently the main actor, Robert De Niro insisted on a live round on set. The other actor, John Cazale agreed but checked the gun multiple times to make sure the round was not in firing position.

"According to Cimino, De Niro requested a live cartridge in the revolver for the scene in which he subjects John Cazale's character to an impromptu game of Russian roulette, to heighten the intensity of the situation. Cazale agreed without protest, but obsessively rechecked the gun before each take to make sure that the live round wasn't next in the chamber."

The Deer Hunter - Wikipedia

I don't know if there was such a scene in Rust. I doubt it and it sounds like live rounds had no business being in the vicinity. But again, I thought it was interesting that there is at least one movie where a live round had an impact on the set.

Cazale was a great actor and died way too young.

I thought it was Christopher Walken who did the Russian roulette scene in The Deer Hunter? It's been a while since I saw the movie.

 

[jjenny]

I wish Luper would have said when he heard this gunfire. It doesn't surprise me that they figured the sounds where not from crew members firing prop guns because everyone knows that live ammo is not allowed on set. JMO.

'Rust' first camera assistant claims Alec Baldwin shooting a result of lack of gun safety protocols

But blanks are allowed. They have used blanks on other scenes. Blanks make noise.

 

[SuziQ]

This article has a link to interview with her lawyers. They claim dummy rounds are similar to live rounds and some don't have holes on the side (well, the ones without the holes would presumably be the live ones, or they should have some other sign they are dummies and not live (bbs inside?). It appear their argument that because she got the rounds from a box labeled "dummy" it didn't even occur to her to check if they were live? She should have been able to rely on a "dummy" written on the box?
Attorneys defend 'Rust' set armorer Gutierrez-Reed on 'Today' | Local News | santafenewmexican.com

I think her attorneys are going with, "My client is so stupid, she couldn't do her job, and should not have been hired" defense. That and SODDI.

Moo.

 

[Gardenista]

‘Rust’ Budget: Star, Producer and Armorer Fees Revealed – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[Luna20]

Her lawyers claim she inspected the rounds, but didn't anticipate there were live rounds on set. So what did she inspect the rounds for? Dummies resemble live rounds, but they are not identical. Per the experienced armorers I have seen interviewed, they are concerned about checking dummies to make sure they are not live rounds.

"Hannah did everything in her power to ensure a safe set. She inspected the rounds that she loaded into the firearms that day. She always inspected the rounds. She did again right before handing the firearm to Mr. Halls, by spinning the cylinder and showing him all of the rounds and then handing him the firearm. No one could have anticipated or thought that someone would introduce live rounds into this set."

‘Rust’ Armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed Backs Up Lawyers’ “Sabotage” Claims – Deadline

If “she did everything in her power to ensure a safe set” she would have identified the live ammo.

In the segment after her 2 attorneys spoke an ammo expert showed the difference between the live and dummies. In essence to show the tips being clearly different-he wasn’t buying her story.

Hopefully in whatever ammo they collected it will show the difference specifically to what was on the set.

 

[Arkay]

HGR's lawyers sound like they work for someone else not their own client. Their explanations of what went wrong just highlights how poorly she did her job. As for the silence of her dad, Thell Reed. I don't his silence is common sense. Well maybe it is for him. I think he's in CYA mode because he provided the weapons and ammo to his daughter. Why go to a professional gun prop company when dear old dad probably has his own arsenal. MOO IMO.

I've been wondering about her dad. I'm sure he wants to defend his daughter, but IMO as he's allegedly a longtime armorer he must know she screwed up royally. I think it's best that he says nothing publicly.

I don't think we know enough to know if he has his own arsenal and then if he supplied the weapons for this movie. Maybe he owns vintage guns or maybe not, but I'm wondering if there are strict procedures on how weapons should be procured. Insurance purposes, industry standards, etc.

 

[Cryptic]

Would target ammo look like a dummy?

What about a wadcutter?
Wadcutter - Wikipedia

It would depend on the dummy ammunition.

In all probability, a dummy round would not resemble a wad cutter as wad cutters have a strange bullet design that astute movie goers would immediately call "un realistic" if used on a set.

But..... other target ammunition is "ball".

This means that the bullets do not have expansion properties and are instead olde fashioned regular bullets. "Ball" ammunition is cheaper to manufacture /costs less than "hollow point" and is thus used as target ammunition.

It is very likely that dummy rounds on an olde west set would resemble live "ball" ammunition. "Hollow points" had not been invented at that time- though some gunslingers tried to duplicate the effect by notching bullets.

In short....

Gunslingers would have shot ball ammunition for practice and also shot each other with ball. Thus olde west set dummies would likely be "ball". "Ball" is also used for modern target practice for cost savings.

 

[Luna20]

‘Rust’ Budget: Star, Producer and Armorer Fees Revealed – The Hollywood Reporter

^^^”In addition to the $7,913 armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was to earn, producers also budgeted $7,469 for “armorer crew,” $17,500 for the rental of weapons and $5,000 for rounds”

I guess it depends on how much ammo was purchased but does $5,000 sound reasonable for dummies?

 

[Luna20]

I've been wondering about her dad. I'm sure he wants to defend his daughter, but IMO as he's allegedly a longtime armorer he must know she screwed up royally. I think it's best that he says nothing publicly.

I don't think we know enough to know if he has his own arsenal and then if he supplied the weapons for this movie. Maybe he owns vintage guns or maybe not, but I'm wondering if there are strict procedures on how weapons should be procured. Insurance purposes, industry standards, etc.

In a link posted yesterday I highlighted that her father isn’t speaking to anyone. It didn’t sound warm and fuzzy to me.

 

[Gardenista]

Angelina Jolie shares thoughts on ‘overwhelming’ Alec Baldwin shooting

 

[steeltowngirl]

Scroll up. He's had extensive experience with guns on movie sets. Somebody posted a long list of all the movies he's acted in with guns. He was the last line of defense to prevent an accident on a movie set that had other gun issues.

He’s an actor, not a trained safety specialist. As far as I know, he’s not an avid gun handler in real life. How often did AB encounter, and have to recognize, LIVE rounds in the firearms he used on previous movie sets? In this case, live rounds were not recognized by the armourer, nor the AD.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Dwayne Johnson will no longer use real guns on set after Alec Baldwin shooting accident
PUBLISHED THU, NOV 4 202112:00 PM EDT


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/04/dwayne-johnson-bans-real-guns-on-set-after-alec-baldwin-shooting-accident.html

 

[Betty P]

Angelina Jolie shares thoughts on ‘overwhelming’ Alec Baldwin shooting

Really inappropriate, JMO, to try to get publicity from a terrible tragedy. She's not involved or connected in any way. Ugh.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

The only way for sure to recognize live ammo from a dummy would have been to look at the dummies before loading. Or unload the gun and check each dummy. Halls claimed dummies had holes on the sides, but he wouldn't have seen those holes just looking at the loaded gun. HGR seem to argue that because the box from which she got the ammo said "dummy" she should have been able to rely on that. I am not sure if she even looked at holes and whatever else was supposed to have made dummies look different (bbs inside?, fired primer?). We are lucky bunch of actors haven't killed each other during some big gun fight scene.

 

[jjenny]

In a link posted yesterday I highlighted that her father isn’t speaking to anyone. It didn’t sound warm and fuzzy to me.

Her father was supposed to have trained HGR as far as I can tell. I don't think she had any other education/qualification in being an armorer, at least as far as I know, other than being trained/shadowing her father and the "Old way" movie. My understanding, usually armorers have experience with guns after being in a military, police, or security. She presumably had neither of those.