Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

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everybodhi said:
I don't see alot of singling out of AB in the posts, they seem to be mostly focused on lack of safety protocol which resulted in a talented young woman's death, and substandard wages and working conditions.
One can think AB is fantastic, (I especially enjoyed his SNL Trump impressions), and still not support crew members dying because of crappy work environments in the name of profits .
It could have been him dead and I think people would feel the same.
Click to expand...

These posts are in the minority but they are definitely here.
I can't say I am a fan of AB, I'm indifferent if anything, I do feel for him in this instance, he has clearly placed his trust in the people on set whose job it was to make sure his props were safe,something I'm sure he and countless other actors have done many times before, but I can also see where this blind trust has caused such a tragic accident. I'm 100% certain that AB is now,in hindsight like the rest of us, saying if only I checked it myself,or if only I asked the AD to check it in front of me. Sadly for Halyna,he didn't and he will have to live with that.
 
happyday said:
But see this is the big problem with using real weapons on a set. I agree that a gun should NEVER be pointed at another person and if a person handles one they should personally check that it is not loaded. But on a film set we’re talking about actors who might not have ever even seen a gun up close. You want that person to open it and check for whether it’s loaded and if so with what? Actors would be shooting themselves in the face left and right. That’s just crazy to expect all actors on every set to be knowledgeable enough to do that. That’s why they have to rely on the people whose sole JOB is to make sure it’s safe. Obviously that makes no sense to conscientious gun owners who are taught individual responsibility, but it does not work in this situation. You can literally have tens of actors with guns in their hands on a set in a scene. No way every single one is experienced enough with guns to even know what they looking at if they’re even able to open it up without incident. It just makes sense for the industry to adopt new rules banning real weapons in filming. MOO
Click to expand...

Below is from an article that was posted up thread. And I guarantee you if it was a suicide scene, AB would triple check that gun.

Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on projects including the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie “The Batman,” was acting with a weapon on the set of “Westworld” when news broke of the shooting Thursday at a New Mexico ranch. “We were all pretty shocked. And it informed what we did from that moment on,” he said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival.

“I don’t recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it’s cleared,” Wright said. “Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.”

Actor Ray Liotta agreed with Wright that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.

“They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see,” Liotta said. “They give it to the person you’re pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn’t work.”

Alec Baldwin was careful with guns before fatal shooting, crew member says
 
happyday said:
But see this is the big problem with using real weapons on a set. I agree that a gun should NEVER be pointed at another person and if a person handles one they should personally check that it is not loaded. But on a film set we’re talking about actors who might not have ever even seen a gun up close. You want that person to open it and check for whether it’s loaded and if so with what? Actors would be shooting themselves in the face left and right. That’s just crazy to expect all actors on every set to be knowledgeable enough to do that. That’s why they have to rely on the people whose sole JOB is to make sure it’s safe. Obviously that makes no sense to conscientious gun owners who are taught individual responsibility, but it does not work in this situation. You can literally have tens of actors with guns in their hands on a set in a scene. No way every single one is experienced enough with guns to even know what they looking at if they’re even able to open it up without incident. It just makes sense for the industry to adopt new rules banning real weapons in filming. MOO
Click to expand...
It doesn't take much time to give anyone basic gun safety training. There is no excuse not doing that with anyone handling a firearm anywhere. Not just on a film set. JMO.
 
Gardenista said:
Below is from an article that was posted up thread. And I guarantee you if it was a suicide scene, AB would triple check that gun.

Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on projects including the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie “The Batman,” was acting with a weapon on the set of “Westworld” when news broke of the shooting Thursday at a New Mexico ranch. “We were all pretty shocked. And it informed what we did from that moment on,” he said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival.

“I don’t recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it’s cleared,” Wright said. “Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.”

Actor Ray Liotta agreed with Wright that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.

“They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see,” Liotta said. “They give it to the person you’re pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn’t work.”

Alec Baldwin was careful with guns before fatal shooting, crew member says
Click to expand...

Has AB had the opportunity before, in previous movies to actually KNOW ( see..observe ) if a prop gun is indeed "cold" ? But, this time ( Due to what why?) he did not KNOW. .. He trusted the words of someone and did not verify himself? Were they at all rushed, or in a hurry?
 
My husband works for the film industry. This situation is talk all around and people are very, very angry. They are not as angry at the crew or the actors, they are angry at the owners. They are angry at production! He is a medic for film and has been in the industry for 25 years. He knows his stuff and is highly thought of in the industry. The medic union is currently ready to go on strike because their contract ended in July and they are not being offered fair compensation.

Before marrying my husband, I had NO idea what Hollywood is like behind the scenes. Let me tell you, I know WAY too much now! Everyone thinks Hollywood is all glamour. Let me assure you, it is NOT. Yes, he is not an actor, and actors ARE treated differently, but Hollywood stinks! They work their crews 18-24+ hours a day. I kid you not! The reason the union is possibly going on strike is because they are making them work through their lunch (no breaks - and no penalties for not providing the break), they are not given long enough turn arounds (this means from end of shooting one day to beginning of shooting the following day)(again no penalties for no turn around), they have also reduced the compensation for working 7 days a week back-to-back-to-back. These crews can be run in to the ground by production who do not care about the workers. On certain sets, they are absolutely treated differently. If they had to pay the penalties (double time), the cost may be just prohibitive enough for the owners to change their unrealistic deadlines.

The fact that the crew walked off tells me a lot! The fact that non-union was brought in tells me a lot! People who do not regularly work in Hollywood and on film sets do NOT understand the pressure, the rules, the way that things should be done. Production often pushes and pushes and expects unrealistic deadlines. I do not blame AB even though I personally do not like him. I do think this situation highlighted exactly why the union my husband belongs to is going to strike if a better deal isn't made. Divorce is only one side effect of the terrible hours and conditions these people work in. Suicide, drug abuse, domestic violence... There are epidemics in the business that exist because they work under horrible stress and deadlines. Yes, they do get paid a good wage, but there is no work-life balance!
 
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IceIce9 said:
I travel for work, and some of the clinics where I receive assignments are either in very small towns or out in the middle of nowhere. In these cases the acceptable overnight accommodations are somewhere between slim and none.

In these cases our company gives us the option of driving to a city with nice hotels, which can be two hours or more each way, or staying in small local motels that are often older, and lacking the amenities that we usually enjoy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good information. It looks like both your company and the movie set follow the same practice:

- Option One: Amenities hotel offered with a long drive due to remote work location.
- Option Two: Closer, but basic motel sans drive.

So, unless the motel offered to the union guys was a genuine safety hazard and not just the standard basic 'Merican hotel in the middle of nowhere, it looks like the union, and not the set was the source of the drama.
 
BBM:
cocomod said:
My husband works for the film industry. This situation is talk all around and people are very, very angry. They are not as angry at the crew or the actors, they are angry at the owners. They are angry at production! He is a medic for film and has been in the industry for 25 years. He knows his stuff and is highly thought of in the industry. The medic union is currently ready to go on strike because their contract ended in July and they are not being offered fair compensation.

Before marrying my husband, I had NO idea what Hollywood is like behind the scenes. Let me tell you, I know WAY too much now! Everyone thinks Hollywood is all glamour. Let me assure you, it is NOT. Yes, he is not an actor, and actors ARE treated differently, but Hollywood stinks! They work their crews 18-24+ hours a day. I kid you not! The reason the union is possibly going on strike is because they are making them work through their lunch (no breaks), they are not given long enough turn arounds (this means from end of shooting one day to beginning of shooting the following day), they have also reduced the compensation for working 7 days a week back-to-back-to-back. These crews can be run in to the ground by production who do not care about the workers. On certain sets, they are absolutely treated differently.

The fact that the crew walked off tells me a lot! The fact that non-union was brought in tells me a lot! People who do not regularly work in Hollywood and on film sets do NOT understand the pressure, the rules, the way that things should be done. Production often pushes and pushes and expects unrealistic deadlines. I do not blame AB even though I personally do not like him. I do think this situation highlighted exactly why the union my husband belongs to is going to strike if a better deal isn't made. Divorce is only one side effect of the terrible hours and conditions these people work in. Suicide, drug abuse, domestic violence... There are epidemics in the business that exist because they work under horrible stress and deadlines. Yes, they do get paid a good wage, but there is no work-life balance!
Click to expand...
So stress, overwork, production schedule & deadlines aside, who bears responsibility for Halyna Hutchins’ death & Joel Souza’s injury? Faces with names need to be held accountable, imo.
 
happyday said:
But see this is the big problem with using real weapons on a set. I agree that a gun should NEVER be pointed at another person and if a person handles one they should personally check that it is not loaded. But on a film set we’re talking about actors who might not have ever even seen a gun up close. You want that person to open it and check for whether it’s loaded and if so with what? Actors would be shooting themselves in the face left and right. That’s just crazy to expect all actors on every set to be knowledgeable enough to do that. That’s why they have to rely on the people whose sole JOB is to make sure it’s safe. Obviously that makes no sense to conscientious gun owners who are taught individual responsibility, but it does not work in this situation. You can literally have tens of actors with guns in their hands on a set in a scene. No way every single one is experienced enough with guns to even know what they looking at if they’re even able to open it up without incident. It just makes sense for the industry to adopt new rules banning real weapons in filming. MOO
Click to expand...
That's a scary thought that because a set has so many people carrying guns who know nothing about them so they don't have time to train them basic gun safety many children know.
 
everybodhi said:
That's a scary thought that because a set has so many people carrying guns who know nothing about them so they don't have time to train them basic gun safety many children know.
Click to expand...
I doubt that the majority of film sets are run the same way this one was. There have been numerous articles linked talking about regular safety meetings and stringent safety protocols on other sets.

Since film set firearm deaths are extremely rare I would say the lack of safety measures in this case is not the norm. JMO.
 
Gardenista said:
Below is from an article that was posted up thread. And I guarantee you if it was a suicide scene, AB would triple check that gun.

Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on projects including the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie “The Batman,” was acting with a weapon on the set of “Westworld” when news broke of the shooting Thursday at a New Mexico ranch. “We were all pretty shocked. And it informed what we did from that moment on,” he said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival.

“I don’t recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it’s cleared,” Wright said. “Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.”

Actor Ray Liotta agreed with Wright that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.

“They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see,” Liotta said. “They give it to the person you’re pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn’t work.”

Alec Baldwin was careful with guns before fatal shooting, crew member says
Click to expand...

"They give it to the person you are pointing the gun at,they do it to the producer,they show whoever is there that it doesn't work"

So the onus is not purely on a single actor in any scene (or rehearsal)
to check the gun, it is the responsibility of the person handing over the gun to show all others involved that the gun is safe.
No,in this instance AB did not question it,he trusted when he clearly shouldn't have done, as did the director and the cinematographer and any other actors and personnel that were in the vicinity at the time. So either they were all negligent or none of them were.
 
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RANCH said:
It doesn't take much time to give anyone basic gun safety training. There is no excuse not doing that with anyone handling a firearm anywhere. Not just on a film set. JMO.
Click to expand...
It’s a great idea, and I hope they do better at that if they continue to use real, working guns for props. I just don’t think it’s necessary anymore. I really think the tide is turning on this and real guns will be banned in sets.
 
Kiranerys said:
"They give it to the person you are pointing the gun at,they do it to the producer,they show whoever is there that it doesn't work"

So the onus is not purely on a single actor in any scene (or rehearsal)
to check the gun, it is the responsibility of the person handing over the gun to show all others involved that the gun is safe.
No,in this instance AB did not question it,he trusted when he clearly shouldn't have done, as did the director and the cinematographer and any other actors and personnel that were in the vicinity at the time. So either they were all negligent or none of them were.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many, many people who are to blame.
 
Gardenista said:
This lady says 4 people should have checked the gun--the armourist, the AD, the key grip and the actor.

'Rust' Location Mngr. Explains Gun Safety Check Failures in Baldwin Tragedy
Click to expand...

What if an actor has no knowledge regarding guns? Is that actor still supposed to check the gun?

Actors with no gun experience could lead to a more dangerous situation. See Jon-Erik Hexum - Wikipedia

What I have read is that the AD is supposed to show the gun to the actor, checking it in front of him before handing it to him for the scene.
 
IceIce9 said:
What if an actor has no knowledge regarding guns? Is that actor still supposed to check the gun?

Actors with no gun experience could lead to a more dangerous situation. See Jon-Erik Hexum - Wikipedia

What I have read is that the AD is supposed to show the gun to the actor, checking it in front of him before handing it to him for the scene.
Click to expand...

From this article, just posted above:
'Rust' Location Mngr. Explains Gun Safety Check Failures in Baldwin Tragedy

The person in charge of deciding where Alec Baldwin's western movie would be filming has weighed in on what went wrong on set ... saying there was a failure of multiple safety checks.

"She explains how it would go through at least 4 different people before being placed in an actor's hand ... who themselves are typically tasked with checking the gun one last time. "
 
happyday said:
But see this is the big problem with using real weapons on a set. I agree that a gun should NEVER be pointed at another person and if a person handles one they should personally check that it is not loaded. But on a film set we’re talking about actors who might not have ever even seen a gun up close. You want that person to open it and check for whether it’s loaded and if so with what? Actors would be shooting themselves in the face left and right. That’s just crazy to expect all actors on every set to be knowledgeable enough to do that. That’s why they have to rely on the people whose sole JOB is to make sure it’s safe. Obviously that makes no sense to conscientious gun owners who are taught individual responsibility, but it does not work in this situation. You can literally have tens of actors with guns in their hands on a set in a scene. No way every single one is experienced enough with guns to even know what they looking at if they’re even able to open it up without incident. It just makes sense for the industry to adopt new rules banning real weapons in filming. MOO
Click to expand...

Very good points. There was an older experienced guy interviewed on CNN the other night who said when he gives the gun to the actor, he opens and loads it in front of them, so they see what he's doing. If it's to be unloaded, he opens and shows them the empty gun. Sure, it takes more time, but he thinks its the best way to take that last safety step before giving it to the actor.

He also said he alone controls all weapons on set. No one else is allowed to touch or handle them at any time. He keeps them locked up when they're not being used. Makes sense, doesn't put the onus on the actors to know everything about every gun they might be asked to use.
 
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