All About Chloroform#2

[Friptzap]

I doubt you could slip that to two parents at a time while they slept side by side in the same bed. They would have to be real heavy sleepers.

 

[Maya Love]

Wasn't George working nights though?

 

[butwhatif?]

Heres a reason she may have needed chloroform....apparently it can mixed with aspirin and used as a treatment for herpes.
We know she didnt use condoms, and had several partners....lol....I think this is pretty unlikely, but my mean streak is out today.
Also another interesting thing, I looked up the risks associated with expoure to chloroform, because I had two miscarriages while working as a dental nurse, and there is a link between the two.
So if we know she was having unprotected sex, and possibly using chloroform on herself or caylee , she may have had a m/c after all.....not that I believe for a second that she put the fetus in the trunk like she has claimed.
Or maybe she looked it up to induce a m/c? We know she couldnt cope with one child so maybe she was desperate. No money for a termination....if her mum knew she would make her keep it, maybe she thought this way nobody would ever know???
Just thinking out loud here...

 

[Maya Love]

WHAT? She claimed (from what source?) that she put a fetus in the trunk of her car? omg, bizarro world.

I posted before, it can also be used to clean up stepped on drugs like cocaine.

 

[butwhatif?]

WHAT? She claimed (from what source?) that she put a fetus in the trunk of her car? omg, bizarro world.

I posted before, it can also be used to clean up stepped on drugs like cocaine.

Geez...it was a while back....I think after the decomp in trunk announcement? It was the night that she had the big drama at the party with brandon....where some people say she disappeared for about an hour and a half, but I think it was exit 13 that said she was in the bathroom the whole time.
Dont know the source, I'm afraid...nothing official thats for sure, but they had to explain the decomp somehow didnt they?
The threads on here somewhere, I'll try to find it.

 

[Maya Love]

Geez...it was a while back....I think after the decomp in trunk announcement? It was the night that she had the big drama at the party with brandon....where some people say she disappeared for about an hour and a half, but I think it was exit 13 that said she was in the bathroom the whole time.
Dont know the source, I'm afraid...nothing official thats for sure, but they had to explain the decomp somehow didnt they?
The threads on here somewhere, I'll try to find it.

It's ok, I just hadn't heard that one before! All the rest you mentioned I read here and elsewhere.

I think it's important to remember that anything the As spew out as explanation isn't necessarily what has been sworn to by any of them to LE.

 

[butwhatif?]

Seems like it was perhaps just a rumour about how they would explain the decomp smell in the trunk.
I've found plenty of references to it on this site and others, but nothing that indicates where this information came from.
The anthonys probably put it out there.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

My #1 theory on the chloroform is Casey stumbled upon it somewhere, took it, and then searched online to find out what she could do with it.
I'm not blaming the tattoo place, just saying, for example, she might have seen it there and stolen it. (I read online some people will use chloroform when getting a tattoo.) Since it's an illegal substance, I doubt, if my theory is correct, anyone is going to be coming forward to report missing chloroform.
Lanie

Is there a dentist involved in this anywhere?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I used to handle chloroform working as a dental nurse, and it definately needs to be stored in glass. The purpose its used for in dentistry is to melt down the plastic that the tooth is filled with when you get a root canal.
I made the mistake once of pouring it into a plastic container and it melted instantly.

I JUST asked if there was a dentist involved in this anywhere. If KC was seeing a dentist, she could have stolen some.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Amazing....

The only thing I kept thinking about a container to store this chloroform was a plastic gas can.

Can't store it in plastic..........it will melt the plastic.

 

[butwhatif?]

Can't store it in plastic..........it will melt the plastic.

It doesnt melt all plastics though. We used to use a plastic syringe and it didnt disolve that..but it did need to be stored in a glass bottle and kept in the fridge.

Eta- I havent heard of any dentists involved....yet.

 

[Weffy]

I just recently read in another thread something about RM having a picture possibly on his myspace that the caption said something like

"Win her over with Chloroform."

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.... I find it odd that there hasn't been much said about this. I know RM is more part of KC's life before Caylee went missing and he's an ex boyfriend now, but I'm curious if maybe the group from the past before KC ditched them for TL weren't against the idea of using Chloroform for various things etc? :waitasec:

 

[natsound]

I just recently read in another thread something about RM having a picture possibly on his myspace that the caption said something like

"Win her over with Chloroform."

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.... I find it odd that there hasn't been much said about this. I know RM is more part of KC's life before Caylee went missing and he's an ex boyfriend now, but I'm curious if maybe the group from the past before KC ditched them for TL weren't against the idea of using Chloroform for various things etc? :waitasec:

Weffy, there is a pic depicting a woman and man on a date, smiling at each other, the man holding a cloth behind the woman's head as if he's about to smother her with a rag soaked in chloroform. The caption is "win her over with chloroform". I tried to search the websleuths website for it but couldn't find it.

 

[minazoe]

ok, this may have already been discussed, but I found this article published in 06. I found it easily on line when I googled chloro and children in the same search. Knowing that KC was researching missing child cases etc. could she have happened on this?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/jonbenet-had-chloroform-overdose/2006/08/18/1155407986434.html

Now I know this is sick beyond words, but we have all speculated about what CC was doing for money. I honestly do not belive Caylee was sleeping in the trunk of that car.
EVER. I don't think she was chloro'd for the purpose of sleeping.

I think she was murdered. period.

however, knowing about KC researching Chloro, and the fact that she did it awhile in advance, this concerns me. What do you think?

 

[carole]

ok, this may have already been discussed, but I found this article published in 06. I found it easily on line when I googled chloro and children in the same search. Knowing that KC was researching missing child cases etc. could she have happened on this?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/jonbenet-had-chloroform-overdose/2006/08/18/1155407986434.html

Now I know this is sick beyond words, but we have all speculated about what CC was doing for money. I honestly do not belive Caylee was sleeping in the trunk of that car.
EVER. I don't think she was chloro'd for the purpose of sleeping.

I think she was murdered. period.

however, knowing about KC researching Chloro, and the fact that she did it awhile in advance, this concerns me. What do you think?

Uh, we found out that John Mark Karr was lying about having been anywhere near Jon Benet. How does this have anything to do with Caylee??

 

[minazoe]

uh,

KC was researching missing children and chloroform...on her computer, wheter or not Mark Karr was or wasn't involed in the JB case, could KC have gotten ideas from this case. To subdue or kill her child with chloroform overdose?

there are very few if any cases or stories that emerge about chloroforming children on line. I was searching this because one of the NG pathologists claims there is a trend among young people who chloro their children so they can go party. I was looking for something to substanciate (sic) this claim, and I could not find a single story of this happening anywhere in our country or others. Seems like something put this idea in KC's head.

Seems like she wanted to murder her child or maybe even offer her up for sex in exchange for money, or possibly try to frame this as some kind of pedophile murder.

uh...that's what.

 

[Praying4Caylee]

I googled "child death & chloroform" & turned up with these links.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/jonbenet-had-chloroform-overdose/2006/08/18/1155407986434.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9F06E5DB163CE633A25757C2A96F9C946096D6CF


Its sorta scary that she could have got the ideal from one of those web searches she did.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

If this has been mentioned I apologize, but there are a billion threads to read. Chloroform occurs naturally, even as part of human decomp. I know that forensic peeps were alarmed by the AMOUNT of chloroform...not the fact of it showing up. Does anyone know if pool chemicals, mixed with decomp, would cause this spike in quantity? It would not answer why chloroform was being searched...but I still have questions as to when and how that search occured (what exactly was being searched) and I am still VERY suspicious of the pool.

 

[Theonly1]

Facts about chloroform (summarized from www.imchem.org):

Name: Trichloromethane

Main Brand Name or Trade Names (among many): Freon20, R20 (refrigerant)

Main Risks: Acutely central nervous system depression and respiratory arrest, late onset liver and kidney damage

Summary of Clinical Effects (from www.imchem.org):

Acute poisoning with chloroform is uncommon. The main
route of exposure is inhalation but in some cases poisoning
is due to ingestion; skin absorption is limited. Central
nervous system depression is the most prominent sign after
acute exposure. Death may occur within few minutes of heavy
exposure from respiratory arrest or from ventricular
fibrillation (cardiac arrest). The prognosis is favourable if
consciousness is recovered but liver and kidney damage may
then develop. Less severe exposure causes dizziness, dilated
pupils, nausea, vomiting.

Diagnosis (i.e., symptoms) (from www.imchem.org):

Headache, impaired consciousness, convulsions,
respiratory paralysis, dizziness, abdominal pain, nausea,
vomiting and diarrhoea are the feature of chloroform
poisoning following ingestion There may be dizziness and
short of breath following inhalation.

Later, symptoms of liver and kidney may develop. The main
features of acute poisoning do not depend on the route of
entry but rather on the amount of chloroform absorbed by the
body.

Analysis of biological fluids plays no role in the diagnosis
of acute poisoning. [Bolding mine]

Hazardous Characteristics (edited from www.inchem.org):

At normal temperature and pressures, chloroform is a
heavy, very volatile, clear, colourless, highly refractive,
non inflammable liquid. It has a characteristic sweet,
ethereal odour and a sweetish burning taste. The odour is not
irritant. Pure chloroform is light, sensitive and reagent
grade chloroform usually contains 0.75% ethanol as stabilizer.
[So this tells me that a scientist can determine pure grade chloroform from some bootleg chloroform.]

Chloroform is extremely volatile. The website mentions many chemicals with which it reacts and how it reacts.

Routes of exposure:

Oral (drinking/swallowing)-- Acute poisoning may be due to accidental or deliberate ingestion. Chloroform is readily absorbed through mucous membranes. Although water, food and oral drugs contain minute amounts of chloroform, significant chronic poisoning is unlikely by this route. The gastrointestinal absorption of chloroform has not been satisfactorily studied but is said to occur readily; the peak blood concentration occurs one hour after ingestion


Inhalation-- Inhalation is the most frequent and the most important
route of entry of chloroform. Poisoning by this route is also
best understood from experience of its use as a general
anaesthetic until it was replaced by less toxic
compounds.

Up to 64-67% of chloroform from inspired air is retained in
the body. Pulmonary intake is directly related to the
chloroform concentration in the air, the ventilation volume
and to the duration of exposure.

[So, I assume, if someone held a 100% chloroform soaked towel to a person's face (mixed with oxygen being huffed through the towel) the most chloroform inspired and retained would be 64-67%.]


Inhalation is the principal route of entry of chloroform into the body. The total quantity absorbed through the lungs is directly proportional to:

the concentration in the inspired air;
the exposure time;
the blood/air Ostwald solubility coefficient;
the solubility in the various body tissuesphysical
activity.

The basic kinetic parameters of chloroform absorption by
inhalation and its equilibration in the body apply equally to
both low and high concentrations. At concentrations inducing
anaesthesia (8000 - 10,000 ppm), a high blood level (about
100 mg/l) is obtained within a couple of minutes.

Metabolism of Chloroform:
Metabolism

Chloroform is extensively metabolized by the liver.
Phosgene, carbene and chlorine are some of the metabolites
which may account for its cytotoxic activity.

How body eliminates chloroform:

The elimination of chloroform is not qualitatively
affected by the route of exposure. About 60 - 70% is
eliminated unchanged in expired air; 30 - 40% is metabolized
and excreted in urine and faeces. Its metabolism is
dose-dependent and may be proportionally higher at lower
exposures


Course, prognosis, cause of death (goes with what Baden was saying):

Acute poisoning with chloroform may follow a benign
course and leave no permanent damage. However, after rapid
absorption of high doses, death occurs quickly due to
respiratory paralysis or cardiac arrest, especially when
proper cardio-respiratory resuscitation is not available. If
the patient survives this early dramatic phase, or when the
exposure is less severe, moderate CNS depression is the most
prominent effect of acute poisoning. The patient may be
dizzy, stuporous or deeply unconscious and, if there is no
further absorption, recovery occurs gradually 20-60 minutes
after exposure, often with profuse vomiting.

After larger or repeated exposures, liver and, less
frequently,overt kidney damage may develop after several
days. This may be followed by complete recovery within
several weeks but may also have a fatal outcome, sometimes
even within less than a week

 

[future criminologist]

have the A's even offered an explanation yet for chloroform being in the trunk, or for the chloroform searches on the computer? I would love to know what their "reasoning" is behind that online search.