Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

[Liadan]

That Max Sica was a really nasty piece of wor but wow justice was sweet and way past due.

I just hope the judge that presides in GBC's trial is as disgusted with the defendents lack of remorse, his general demeanor of 'business as usual', life just goes on, his refusal to cooperate and answer the police's questions, the disparaging way the BC's insinuated that ABC was depressed. Despicable yes despicable there is no other word for it.

 

[Bayside]

The only way to describe how I feel is "weirded" out.

From what I can see it's still business as usual and there seems to be an agent listed on the rental property at the Toowong Tower address. Weird.....Creepy.

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-studio-qld-fortitude+valley-408064623

I would be vey worried lettting the BC Clan have any access over the rental trust accounts.

 

[Curiousasacat]

I would be vey worried lettting the BC Clan have any access over the rental trust accounts.

It's not a BC it's a young lady who he is also STILL friends with on FB. Just sayin?? MOO

 

[grandmama]

Did anyone notice that former Victorian police chief SIMON OVERLAND has just been appointed Justice Secretary in Tasmania? I thought that name sounded familiar! I now remember why.

 

[bearbear]

My little 4 year old boy started crying and saying he wanted to go home. Bless him, so my moment was a little ruined : ) Nope it did not see us and it was about 80 meters away. The campsite we stayed at had a mum and cub at the campground the day before. Yes was pretty cool to see but I have always had a thing for bears and I was really excited : )
bearbear don't get too excited ; )

My use of wilderness was a bit dramatic, there were tourists around the area : )

haha! yes , im very envious, i love bears! i even called my 70kg rottie bear because he looks just like a big cuddly black bear! hope you got some photos!!

 

[Curiousasacat]

I don't have time to read through all of this at the moment but from what I did read looks interesting IMO.

Happy Sleuthing. Bye for now.

http://australianpropertyforum.com/topic/8384567/1/

Heading(article is from Feb 2011) - Who can you trust? Michelle Hele, Elizabeth Brier-Mills, Ben Markwell, Gerard Baden-Clay?; Don't trust real estate professionals!

"Now the question to be asked here - did Michelle Hele know that Ben Markwell was a real estate agent, and if so, why didn't she bother to disclose it in the article? Given her buffoonish handling of the stats, I'm not convinced she would have been sharp enough to google Ben's name before writing the article. The web then becomes a little more twisted, as the Managing Director of Century 21 Westside, Gerard Baden-Clay, makes an appearance, trying to back the claim that first home buyers are returning to the market.

Wading through this nonsense is becoming common place and those involved have either become more retarded, or just completely arrogant. The journalists involved are contemptible, but a few hundred thousand in Brisbane probably swallowed this one whole.

Not that anyone should get overly excited about the antics of Century 21, you might recall their harbinger of death for the US property market..."

http://tasmanianrealestatetrouble.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/yes-we-are-open.html

 

[Barram5]

Did anyone notice that former Victorian police chief SIMON OVERLAND has just been appointed Justice Secretary in Tasmania? I thought that name sounded familiar! I now remember why.

It is funny what we find ..on FB there's a Bruce .... From Overland Kansa in real estate REMAX.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Oh there's more. I had to show another one and now I really must go.
Remember this was written feb 2011

Checkout two dads' bio on the Century 21 link below it starts out with: "More than 100 years ago, Gerard Baden-Clay’s great-grandfather sparked a revolution."

"As a qualified accountant and former international corporate manager, Gerard knows that real estate often comes down to the bottom line — but being a family man has taught him the whole process is about more than just numbers." In what way I wonder, sounds like a whole lot of corporate rhetoric to me.

Wonder where & for whom was he an "international corporate manager"? I see from his profile at LinkedIn he was a international travel consultant at Flight Centre Toombul, maybe that's what he means.

TARINGA Real Estate Agents & Property - CENTURY 21 Westside

I love how people enhance, embellish or lie about their previous experience.

gerard baden-clay - Australia | LinkedIn

Article dated 6th Feb

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....d/the-totally-off-topic-thread-6220-1062.html

 

[ActusReus]

Did anyone notice that former Victorian police chief SIMON OVERLAND has just been appointed Justice Secretary in Tasmania? I thought that name sounded familiar! I now remember why.

Front page news down here today.

 

[KG1]

I think a life sentence should mean, in the true sense of the word,..life...no parole...locked up for the rest of their life!!

Especially when you read the victim impact statements...the horror & absolute misery for the loved ones that these murderers leave behind.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...to-life-for-triple-murder-20120705-21igm.html

As I understand it in Queensland, a life sentence is 20 years? I also understand that usually 15 years is what is served. Can someone enlighten me on this. I also read that the Qld Govt is going to increase a life sentence to 30 years.

In the Sica case, although he appears to have been given 3 life sentences, which to my way of thinking is 60 years, he has to serve a minimum of 35 years. This is ONLY 11 years and 8 months for EACH life. I would rather have seen a head sentence of 60 years and a minimum of 45 years as the prosection asked for. I cannot find a mention anywhere of the judge stating a head number of years. Does anyone know if this was stated?

This week in Melbourne, drug trafficker and dealer, Tony Mokbel was sentenced to 30 years with a non parole period of 22 years.

 

[Bayside]

It's not a BC it's a young lady who he is also STILL friends with on FB. Just sayin?? MOO

She may be the current property manager but that does not mean she controls the trust account funds.

I was involved in a case a few years back of a real estate owner that embezzled the trust account funds at his real estate. He had a gambling problem and did a lot of creative accounting. The poor young girl that worked there as a property manager got blamed and she had nothing to do with it.

The girl was cleared and he went on to the same place as Gerard lol. The property owners could not get their money back as he went bankrupt. Btw he started to embezzle the trust account funds after his business was in trouble and he was trying to keep up the high flyer lifestyle and image.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by Kalamityk

I think Mani was referring to the older B-C's they have fairly close neighbours and maybe the neighbours would have heard a car starting up late (after face time call perhaps)

Thanks Kalamityk, I was referring to the NBC's i.e. the parents.

 

[KG1]

I agree Squizzey I found that strange too. He is saying he is appealing on behalf of Sica but in the sentencing asked that as two of the victims were murdered in heir sleep it wasn't as bad as the other murderso those sentences should be lighter. The defence asked for between 20-30yearsand the prosecution for 45 years. Strange that the defence asks for a sentence, maybe there is a reason behind it but IMO that is as good as the defence saying he did it!

The Defense is required to put forth submissions in relation to sentence and any mitigating circumstances. It is not a matter of the defense 'asking for a sentence' as it is understood by all that there will be a sentence, because the accused has been found guilty on all 3 charges of murder. The defense has to attempt to put the 'best spin' forward to try and persuade the judge to hand down the best possible minimum sentence. The defense will downplay the reality as much as possible, and play up any positives for the defendant, such as remorse, as much as possible.

Another point worth remembering is that in an Appeal process, it is quite open to a judge or judges to increase the sentence, if the appeal is against sentence. In Sica's case, it will be an appeal against both, leaving open the way, if the convictions stand, that the sentence may be reduced. But there is always a risk of an increase. Hope this helps.

 

[Mani]

Front page news down here today.

Love your avatar - is that Andy Warhol?

 

[elmo343]

I think the GBC trial may move along a little quicker, if this article below is has any bearing on the trial process.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...reme-court-judge/story-fndo45r1-1226417246206

Has anyone read the above article? It talks about the appointment of another supreme court judge to make the waiting period for court cases shorter. In other words, GBC's trial will start a little sooner with the appointment of another judge.

 

[Ms Adler]

I don't have time to read through all of this at the moment but from what I did read looks interesting IMO.

Happy Sleuthing. Bye for now.

http://australianpropertyforum.com/topic/8384567/1/

Heading(article is from Feb 2011) - Who can you trust? Michelle Hele, Elizabeth Brier-Mills, Ben Markwell, Gerard Baden-Clay?; Don't trust real estate professionals!

"Now the question to be asked here - did Michelle Hele know that Ben Markwell was a real estate agent, and if so, why didn't she bother to disclose it in the article? Given her buffoonish handling of the stats, I'm not convinced she would have been sharp enough to google Ben's name before writing the article. The web then becomes a little more twisted, as the Managing Director of Century 21 Westside, Gerard Baden-Clay, makes an appearance, trying to back the claim that first home buyers are returning to the market.

Wading through this nonsense is becoming common place and those involved have either become more retarded, or just completely arrogant. The journalists involved are contemptible, but a few hundred thousand in Brisbane probably swallowed this one whole.

Not that anyone should get overly excited about the antics of Century 21, you might recall their harbinger of death for the US property market..."

http://tasmanianrealestatetrouble.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/yes-we-are-open.html

GBC makes a "static" appearance in this youtube video relating to the issue (1min20s in).

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI-F7syb16A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI-F7syb16A[/ame]

The original CM article is here:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/first-home-buyers-slowly-returning-to-queensland-property-market-after-historical-low/story-e6freqmx-1226000383914

Overall, just more evidence of GBC upholding those ethics!

 

[KG1]

GBC makes a "static" appearance in this youtube video relating to the issue (1min20s in).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI-F7syb16A

The original CM article is here:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/first-home-buyers-slowly-returning-to-queensland-property-market-after-historical-low/story-e6freqmx-1226000383914

Overall, just more evidence of GBC upholding those ethics!

I don't really see a problem with this. Ben Markwell article appeared to be promoting the First Home Buyer's grant. As a taxpayer myself, I have no issue for eligible applicants to receive this grant. As presumably, Ben Markwell and his friend passed all Federal Govt criteria to receive the grant, and would have disclosed all necessary criteria on the application, possibly including occupations, it is not the business of anyone else.

As the article was about the First Home Buyer's grant, the occupation of the grantee is irrelevent. Ben Markwell is also a private person. Sounds like sour grapes to me and perhaps 'having a go' at a competitor. IMO

 

[Fuskier]

Has anyone read the above article? It talks about the appointment of another supreme court judge to make the waiting period for court cases shorter. In other words, GBC's trial will start a little sooner with the appointment of another judge.

Yes ELMO343. Read it this morning. Another Justice desperately needed.

 

[Rational]

The Defense is required to put forth submissions in relation to sentence and any mitigating circumstances. It is not a matter of the defense 'asking for a sentence' as it is understood by all that there will be a sentence, because the accused has been found guilty on all 3 charges of murder. The defense has to attempt to put the 'best spin' forward to try and persuade the judge to hand down the best possible minimum sentence. The defense will downplay the reality as much as possible, and play up any positives for the defendant, such as remorse, as much as possible.

Another point worth remembering is that in an Appeal process, it is quite open to a judge or judges to increase the sentence, if the appeal is against sentence. In Sica's case, it will be an appeal against both, leaving open the way, if the convictions stand, that the sentence may be reduced. But there is always a risk of an increase. Hope this helps.

Thanks KG1 that makes sense. Well I hope they are aware of the double edge sword an appeal may be in that case and may it be looked upon that he got of lightly and may need a few extra years!!
IMO

 

[Fuskier]

The following is a link to the Sica judgement handed down today. Some very interesting statements made by the Judge about Sica particularly from point 12 onwards, re: deceptions, lack of remorse, concerned only with self-preservation.

Definitely rang some bells!

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2012/QSC12-184.pdf

Thank you MS ADLER. An interesting sentancing document especially in light of pending Criminal Court proceedings for this alleged murderer.