Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[Curiousasacat]

So I was thinking about the car and what you said Minni.
Perhaps Bawanas car was locked in and this is where the chain rumour may have come from?
The chain had to be removed to let the car out.
If you knew that "the cover" had been blown and were spotted by a witness then this no doubt would have caused dad stress for son if not for his daughter in-law? Stress from the unexpected locked in car too? MOO

 

[Fuskier]

Minni, I'm reading that is a theory? So don't imagine there is a link for factual info regarding it in MSM. (I haven't actually looked at the link you provided yet, though.. I find it so hard to navigate that other site, I usually give up!)

Just a suggestion: it would be helpful if the name, date and time of the post was given. E.g: Post by GerbilHunting, Thurs 5th July 2012, 8.35pm. This would make it easier to locate the particular post and read it. MOO.

 

[pulpfiction]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24489

Do you think that the QPS have the means to zoom in and identify anyone at that bus stop? enough to say without a doubt that its NBC?

If not, they might want to go to his house and look for any clothes belonging to NBC that match the clothes of a suspect seen sitting at the bus stop? they might want to take those clothes away with them for further testing?

also, this testing was done at 3.23 am. Is that because something was observed at that time? or did they go over and over repeating the same tests? Its getting towards the end of what would have been a damned busy night, so if NBC was at this bus stop, and that were his car, this would be a point where the finishing touches were going on. What could he be doing there now?

as Rational says, the more I know, the more I DONT know!!

It would be grainy at best. However they may be able to identify if the figure was size consistent with a male like NBC.

What is st Lucia connection?

 

[pulpfiction]

I also think that the BC family were smart enough to google "taking the 5th" and refusing to answer some questions and engage lawyers.

I therefore do not think them dumb enough to be washing their cars!

Just saying that's all

 

[bearbear]

Hypothetically, if someone was feeling 'trapped' emotionally by something so overwhelming to them, they may seek 'a less intense environment' like a public place that is neutral and available to everyone to 'get away from it' stay for a while, sit and compose oneself. The car may have felt too confined an environment which would not allow the 'internal pressure' to dissipate.
Sitting in a public bus shelter would allow enough 'space' and distraction to process an overwhelming reaction and allow one to get some distance and eventually gain some composure. Just an alternative hypothesis about managing of internal overwhelming reactions. It may not make sense to us, but it may to someone feeling overwhelmed. MOO

i agree, nbc was probably overwhelmed and broken, hes an old man and its such a shocking thing to take in and deal with and imagine finding out this has happened in your family, getting called in the middle of the night, and you are now involved!
im wondering also, maybe he and gbc had argued either on the way there, or there at the roundabout, so he got gbc to drop or leave him there while gbc finished up on his own.

 

[minni]

Fuskier - I think this is good 'outside the square' thinking here.everyone copes differently with stress or anxiety. It may overwhelm some and create a feeling of claustrophobia.

Curious - ok WOW re the chains

Pulp - TM lives at St Lucia. Back when I was obssessing over the relevance of the roundabout/carpark I thought the QPS might be looking at timef frames to get from St Lucia to Kenmore and vice versa. At one stage I even wondered whether Allison drove to TM's in anger to confront her over the following days conference or something she might have learned that night.

Pulp - if by 'smart enough to google' you meant 'stupid enough to google' then yes, they are very smart!! IMO that was thoughtless and stupid (i know about thoughtless and stupid as I am the queen of doing things without thinking)

 

[DrWatson]

Oh, if only we knew the contents of that Facetime call.... lease:

That could/would/should fill in a lot of the gaps in knowledge about what allegedly happened that night, and what the whole thing about the roundabout may have been....

 

[Mani]

Photos taken yesterday at Kholo Bridge when creek was at low tide - the Little Ugly Creek meets the Kholo Creek near to the bridge and was running yesterday due to rain earlier in week -

 

[minni]

Rational, I see that they charged the panel beater with the murders of Scott Maitland and Cindy Masonwells. How awful that they were killed because he helped the police with information about that van he was involved in stealing. What is this world coming to where two people are murdered as payback for a little grand theft auto so to speak? human life has little if no value to some people in this world, its shocking

 

[Mani]

More photos 14 July

 

[Mani]

It is a slow process to upload photos here as I can only post 4 at a time -

 

[Rational]

Rational, I see that they charged the panel beater with the murders of Scott Maitland and Cindy Masonwells. How awful that they were killed because he helped the police with information about that van he was involved in stealing. What is this world coming to where two people are murdered as payback for a little grand theft auto so to speak? human life has little if no value to some people in this world, its shocking

Yes Min very sad !
It was their van that was stolen and they got killed for it!!

 

[Mani]

Shots of underneath bridge showing the pile of cleared castor oil plants that can be seen growing down the bank in overhead shots from helicopters via MSM in earlier videos etc.

 

[minni]

More photos 14 July

Mani, these footprints that we can see clearly here, I believe they have been there for some time, ie detectives from the day she was found, especially in light of how much traffic you can still see now. they lead right into the water in some spots, so I think the mud here 'holds' these impressions very well. I dont think they are just visitors to the bridge, as I can see many are shoeprints NOT made by sneakers, thongs, runners, sandals etc.

they look to me like the sort of shoe that has a treadless bottom, and a heel, in other words the type a man wears when wearing a suit. A business shoe.

 

[Wonder Woman]

Just a question for the legal experts among us. I was just having a look at Google regarding the Max Sica case and would like something clarified re Queensland law. Is it true that in a court case only the prosecution can present evidence and witnesses. Im sure I must be reading this incorrectly. It doesn't sound right to me.

Louisepiglet, in relation to your question, I thought I would offer my opinion in relation to the law in Queensland.

The Prosecution is required, in a criminal trial, to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Defendant is guilty of committing the offence. This means that the Prosecution has the "burden of proof" and is required to present evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that the Defendant is guilty of committing the offence. The Prosecution’s burden of proof applies to each element of the offence (for example, in relation to the offence of murder in the present case, that (1) GBC caused the death of ABC or grievous bodily harm to her and that (2) GBC intended to cause the death of ABC or grievous bodily harm to her) and extends to excuses that are raised on the evidence, for example, Self-Defence, Accident and Provocation.

The Defendant (except in relation to the defences of Insanity and Dimished Responsibility - see below), is not required to prove the Defendant's innocence and accordingly, does not need to present evidence. However, the Defendant can, and usually does present evidence to create doubt in the Prosecution's case.

Where the Defendant raises the defence of Insanity or Diminished Responsibility (abnormality of mind at the time of doing the act that caused the death), the Defendant has the burden of proof to establish on a balance of probabilities that the Defendant is insane or suffering diminished responsibility.

I hope this information is helpful.

:cow: MOO

 

[Mani]

The purple flower with the yellow ones is to say thank you to Makara

 

[DunnoZo]

It would be grainy at best. However they may be able to identify if the figure was size consistent with a male like NBC.

What is st Lucia connection?

Ms. McHugh I believe.

 

[minni]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24529&d=1342322773

this photo shows just how difficult it would have been to manouver your way down this side of the embankment. You'd be a fool to try ( so I guess we know how she got there then!!!)
Still I think he would have some injuries of his own if he went this way MOO MOO

 

[BreakingNews]

What could NBC possibly be looking out for if his job at the bus stop was spotting? I just don't see this job to be required or necessary! Two cars involved- ABC allegedly in the boot. So unless the car carrying ABC was in danger of being stopped what need is there for a spotter or look out? The threat of police surveilance at that time of nightin Kenmore is far less probably then the police or bystanders noticing someone making a spectacle of themself by being emotional at the bus stop.

Shock? maybe NBC was completely shocked at the situation as it unfolded from GBC's description that night and his reaction was to walk around the neighbourhood to make sense of it?

Just cannot see the bus stop spotter idea as relevant to the dumping of ABC's body that night.

Thanks Liadan. I don't buy the bus stop spotter idea either. Doesn't seem to make sense to me. I doubt GBC or NBC were thinking straight at the time. I have always thought NBC was there waiting for a ride - either to his home or waiting for GBC to pick him up to assist with moving Allison. I don't think they ever considered the cctv. Other things on their minds.

 

[minni]

Louisepiglet, in relation to your question, I thought I would offer my opinion in relation to the law in Queensland.

The Prosecution is required, in a criminal trial, to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Defendant is guilty of committing the offence. This means that the Prosecution has the "burden of proof" and is required to present evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that the Defendant is guilty of committing the offence. The Prosecution’s burden of proof applies to each element of the offence (for example, in relation to the offence of murder, that (1) GBC caused the death of ABC or grievous bodily harm to her and that (2) GBC intended to cause the death of ABC or grievous bodily harm to her) and extends to excuses that are raised on the evidence, for example, Self-Defence, Accident and Provocation.

The Defendant (except in relation to the defences of Insanity and Dimished Responsibility - see below), is not required to prove the Defendant's innocence and accordingly, does not need to present evidence. However, the Defendant can, and usually does present evidence to create doubt in the Prosecution's case.

Where the Defendant raises the defence of Insanity or Diminished Responsibility (abnormality of mind at the time of doing the act that caused the death), the Defendant has the burden of proof to establish on a balance of probability that the Defendant is insane or suffering diminished responsibility.

I hope this information is helpful.

:cow: MOO

Thankyou Wonder Woman, I thought it was like this but really had no idea. I thought it is not up to the Defense to prove innocence, it is up to the prosecution to prove guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt. He is just there with his team trying to defend whatever they throw at him. kind of.