Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #34

[marlywings]

Thanks MWQL (I like that title!)
I bet GBC wished he had googled that as well, and I hope he did claim he was bitten during the day which would make the story he is spinning even less likely.

I'm hoping forensics found hundreds of the little caterpillar hairs all over the clothes he wore that night...as well as on the seat in Captiva.

 

[pulpfiction]

Hi. Been catching up a little. Just a couple of thoughts:

1. Surveyors are often involved in soil testing. This might be why they were at the Kholo Bridge area but it could well be for a number of reasons. The tripods are used by the surveyors, I believe this all ties in with the erosion and heavy rain aspect. Theoretically it is also possible that the soil at, say, the scout ground and where Allison was found are different - minerals, density, colour, clay based etc. Soil testing can facilitate in determining different locations a body may have started and ended at for instance and what was potentially found under nails and in hair. Just a thought.

2. I just read someone alluded to Allison's phone being thrown in the roof guttering of the house. Interesting. Where did this idea come from? To me it makes very little sense. Why would anyone do that? There were so many places I think it could have been ditched at along the way. To throw it up in the guttering on a dark night seems odd & why at their house where the crime seems to have taken place. Please enlighten me further though

There was one other thing but so tired I've forgotten

 

[pulpfiction]

I'm hoping forensics found hundreds of the little caterpillar hairs all over the clothes he wore that night...as well as on the seat in Captiva.

I'm sure UQ entomology have been contacted about this

 

[Anemone]

You can join me then :rocker:
Lurking is listening and is still productive here.
I tend to lurk and I try to thank each post I read, and agree with , so I'm not a hidden lurker. :idea::seeya:

Me too Aunty, I'm also listening and reading and thanking the posts I relate to and/or agree with. I've been following the conversation since very near the beginning, but don't post often.

 

[marlywings]

I haven't travelled up Flaggy Creek Road, but Bunya Road has two padlocked gates - one at the Scout Camp entrance and one at the end of the road. If NBC had a key to these locks, then he and GBC could easily drive the 4WD/s closer to Kholo Creek.

However, I find it hard to imagine that they would have unlocked the first gate and entered the dirt drive to the Hall, as there are three houses that are very close to the roadside. One of these houses is directly across from this padlocked gate. It would be so quiet out there at night, any noise or disturbance would be easily heard. The end of the road would have been a better option, as there are no houses there - just the padlocked gate. And as I said, NBC may well have a key.

I agree with you Marly, Kholo Creek would be very snaggy with many broken or over hanging branches as well, and it would be a long distance for a body to travel to the crossing. However, it is much wider than Ugly Creek. Maybe this would help a body to flow through more easily than the narrow Ugly Creek?

When I visited with some other lovely posters from here a few weeks ago, I noticed a very large tree that had fallen across Kholo Creek about 20 mts up stream from where Allison's body was. This may actually be close to where Ugly Creek joins? Anyway, even though this would have been a major obstacle, I still felt that at high tide and with all the deluge of rain that we had on the Friday night before she was found, she still would have floated over or around this easily. So I believe that this could be said for Ugly Creek too. I know it's windy, but when you're there, you actually do get a sense that Allison could very well have washed down one of these creeks quite easily - despite the branches and snags in either creek.

I'm leaning more towards Ugly Creek too Marly - mostly because it's so secluded. I had an eery feeling driving up there and Mani's photos of the creek and especially the box culvert seem quite a likely place for GBC to have placed Allison's body. There are no houses close by to see a parked car or someone in action. The reports of howling dogs also speak volumes to me. Having said that, yes it's a narrow, windy creek with probably many snags as Doc said.

However, I'm probably more for GBC placing Allison upstream, because I personally feel that GBC did not place her under the crossing. Standing under that crossing, you can easily see the Brisbane River only a short distance down from where she lay. If GBC put her here, she surely would have been easily washed out to the BR with the downpour that we had. IMO the horizontal pipes would not have stopped her. She was also found so low on that muddy bank, it would have been a long way down for GBC to have carried her and also a real challenge through rough scrub, low trees and even lower branches on a fairly steep bank and in complete darkness. In addition, you would have to be an absolute i---- to park on the side of Mt Crosby Road, pull a body out of the back of the car, and carry it down the bank or even throw it over the crossing. A passerby could come at any time and there's no warning (especially people travelling inbound). As a previous poster said, any motorist would have their high beam on and would light up a parked car/s or action, just like that. But, as I said only an i---- would do this, so I maybe very wrong!

All MOO!

PS. Sorry, this has taken me ages to post, as I've had a phone call and putting two children to bed in between 'submitting'! I am very used to our lovely, fun Friday nights - hope I'm not spoiling the mood by being too serious

Thanks bellgirl....great post!!...I think I'm leaning more towards Little Ugly...turn off Mt Crosby into Wirrabara then just a short drive up to the creek with no passing cars to worry about & no houses close by at all.

Then again, if GBC planned on placing her at Kholo Creek he would have, as you said, had to have a key, which would be another reason for needing the assistance of NBC.

 

[alioop]

Whether Allison was placed in Kholo Creek or Little Ugly Creek and if we presume she was washed some distance, I don't believe her only external injury was a chipped tooth. Surely there would be more damage from coming into contact with creek debris even just from whatever else was also washing along. And this is presuming that the water was much higher than than the usual branches and snags seen at normal high tide.

 

[marlywings]

Hi MW - yes, good points. Maybe we're over-thinking things a bit? Maybe the simplest solution is the most likely? And that, perhaps, is that the car pulled off the road at that little runoff just at the eastern end of the bridge, on the upstream side (i.e. just AFTER the bridge if driving inbound towards Brisbane). If he/they pulled off the road there, then dumped the body down the bank of the creek there, which is just about at the confluence of Little Ugly and Kholo Creeks, maybe just into the mouth of Ugly Ck, and maybe it was just in the scrub rather than in the water. And it wasn't until all that rain and the flood surge washed it into the creek, then perhaps as you suggest, the turbulence and eddy currents around the bridge washed it around onto that eastern side of the main creek under the road bridge.

Maybe the body hadn't come far at all?

Still room for conjecture, I guess.... will be very interesting to hear - finally - what theories the police and prosecution have. But I fear we're in for a long wait for that info :banghead:

If he'd pulled off the road at that little runoff you mentioned on eastern end, would passing traffic be able to see the car/s??

I think it's safe to say wherever he placed her he had no idea at all about the deluge of rain that was to come in days ahead.

Hard to know when we'll get to eventually hear...perhaps committal hearing will reveal a whole lot more??

 

[Timmy]

That's very subtle Summer Breeze!

 

[Anemone]

Surveyors, too. Maybe planning to widen the bridge? Or put up railings to stop access to the creek beside the bridge? Or to put in a small car parking area for those who wish to stop and look?

Or maybe assessing ground levels to work out flow rates, or similar?

Or even nothing to do with this case at all?

One good way to find out what the surveyors are doing on the bridge would be to call the Brisbane City Councillor (Pullenvale Ward) Margaret de Wit's office and ask them. They're really helpful and will tell you what they know. There've been problems with the bridge for years (cracks etc.)

 

[alioop]

I have just had a look at Mani's photos of the Little Ugly Creek crossing on Wirraburra Road, and in one of them you can see a dumped lounge by the side of the road. I saw that too when I went there yesterday and I think there may have even been more stuff than when Mani took the photos.

I am sure the reason the lounge dumper put it there is because it is so secluded and the chances of being seen are small. I hope the QPS have looked closely at that lounge too. Now that would be a reason to seek assistance from someone to help move!

 

[marlywings]

Hi. Been catching up a little. Just a couple of thoughts:

1. Surveyors are often involved in soil testing. This might be why they were at the Kholo Bridge area but it could well be for a number of reasons. The tripods are used by the surveyors, I believe this all ties in with the erosion and heavy rain aspect. Theoretically it is also possible that the soil at, say, the scout ground and where Allison was found are different - minerals, density, colour, clay based etc. Soil testing can facilitate in determining different locations a body may have started and ended at for instance and what was potentially found under nails and in hair. Just a thought.

2. I just read someone alluded to Allison's phone being thrown in the roof guttering of the house. Interesting. Where did this idea come from? To me it makes very little sense. Why would anyone do that? There were so many places I think it could have been ditched at along the way. To throw it up in the guttering on a dark night seems odd & why at their house where the crime seems to have taken place. Please enlighten me further though

There was one other thing but so tired I've forgotten

Re the phone...there was a discussion about this way back in I think second thread. Members were discussing possible places where GBC could have ditched the phone...one member suggested he could have thrown it up into roof guttering & really, would police think to look there for it?? Later on, as it turns out, police were looking very close to the home...as per this report...


May 01, 2012

* Police are hopeful of finding her mobile phone after narrowing the location of the key missing item to an area spanning 150m.

As the Kholo Creek crews worked, fresh search teams were sent to scour the gardens of the Baden-Clays' two nearest neighbours looking for Allison's mobile phone.
It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself

http://www.news.com.au/national/hor...or-killer-begins/story-e6frfkvr-1226343136055

 

[pulpfiction]

Whether Allison was placed in Kholo Creek or Little Ugly Creek and if we presume she was washed some distance, I don't believe her only external injury was a chipped tooth. Surely there would be more damage from coming into contact with creek debris even just from whatever else was also washing along. And this is presuming that the water was much higher than than the usual branches and snags seen at normal high tide.

Yes I Think everyone was surprised that the only external injury apparently was the chipped tooth. In fact it makes little sense to think there would be nothing else given that area is indeed "snaggy". I agree and have felt all along that we will find out much more later on.

Until the charges were made I seriously contemplated GBC ending ALlisons life but that it was quite possible he called NBC and it was NBC who took the body on his own and disposed of it with GBC perhaps distraught, in shock, panicking (or all of these) staying at home in case the children woke up. I also wondered, before the charges, if NBC came over carefully wrapped Allison, took her elsewhere, then figured out a plan and dumped her at the place of origin a little later.

Something just makes me think how is there only a chipped tooth? How does one dump a body in frenzied panic, in the dark in scrubby bushland? Seemingly there's thick scrub to get through. If dragged even covered by a blanket there would likely be an evident path left waiting to be discovered. One would think the body had abrasions. If somehow thrown off a bridge (which I don't believe) one would again think there'd be more than the chipped tooth.

So I do wonder about the interfering with a corpse. For the body to have possibly only a chipped tooth considering where she was found says to me that whoever did dump Allison may have done it carefully and methodically it could be argued otherwise you'd suspect drag marks, abrasions and all manner of other things.

But again I thought most of this a while ago but doubts still linger as to why we have only heard of 1 chipped tooth. Btw, I hate the word "dump" - sorry

 

[pulpfiction]

Re the phone

* Police are hopeful of finding her mobile phone after narrowing the location of the key missing item to an area spanning 150m.

It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself

http://www.news.com.au/national/hor...or-killer-begins/story-e6frfkvr-1226343136055

Thanks. I had missed that. Now it's not so preposterous. Still think its a stupid place to throw it. Very possible to miss the guttering and it's on the roof or lost in a garden bed in the dark. A big hassle on what was clearly a busy night for GBC

 

[Aunty]

I have just had a look at Mani's photos of the Little Ugly Creek crossing on Wirraburra Road, and in one of them you can see a dumped lounge by the side of the road. I saw that too when I went there yesterday and I think there may have even been more stuff than when Mani took the photos.

I am sure the reason the lounge dumper put it there is because it is so secluded and the chances of being seen are small. I hope the QPS have looked closely at that lounge too. Now that would be a reason to seek assistance from someone to help move!

I saw a mattress laying in the bushes , at the end of Wirraburra Road , on google maps. It seems like a bit of a dumping area. Very secluded. :fence:

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Senior BC might be helping the police and walking them through what happened on the night.... if he were a decent human being which I dont think he is.

yeah.. somewhat reluctantly doing it..I did not mean he would be just helping them out. But perhaps with some pressure being asserted on him to do this or.. Perhaps this is where some level of immunity or leniancy is coming into play? It was just a thought anyway.. As I said, don't think otherwise he would be there by choice when the QPS was.. MOO

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

maybe he went to open up for them and hung around pretending he was busy, trying to see what they are doing and probably hoping they dont find anything!

Ha, ha..maybe.. that wouldn't be surprising..

 

[bellgirl]

Whether Allison was placed in Kholo Creek or Little Ugly Creek and if we presume she was washed some distance, I don't believe her only external injury was a chipped tooth. Surely there would be more damage from coming into contact with creek debris even just from whatever else was also washing along. And this is presuming that the water was much higher than than the usual branches and snags seen at normal high tide.

Yes, I agree with you alioop. I don't understand why it was stated that the only external injury was a chipped tooth! Just doesn't make sense ........ with reports of blood droplets/smears, and the obvious injuries that her body would have sustained due to impact with the bank, debris, branches etc in the creek that she lay/travelled in for atleast 10 days. The huge deluge that we received on the weekend before Allison was found, stands as more reason that her body would have been more 'affected' (for want of a better word) than just a chipped tooth. I can only imagine that it's a 'play' with words or that the prosecution didn't/wasn't required to give more details than ......... simply the 'chipped tooth'. I'm not good with Law - out of my league now. The 'Law' posters on this site are brilliant - Hawkins, Acteus etc. But I do agree with you alioop, there had to have been more injuries. Just can't wait to hear more details - like everyone else!

 

[pulpfiction]

yeah.. somewhat reluctantly doing it..I did not mean he would be just helping them out. But perhaps with some pressure being asserted on him to do this or.. Perhaps this is where some level of immunity or leniancy is coming into play? It was just a thought anyway.. As I said, don't think otherwise he would be there by choice when the QPS was.. MOO

Agreed. I think there is a valid reason he's there. Someone mentioned earier he was there maybe meeting QPS to let them in. It's a murder investigation and the house was rented - its owned by that company, can't recall the name though. It's since been vacated. He ain't there to open the door for them. He's been actively avoiding them as far as we know.

 

[pulpfiction]

So tired...must sleep now

 

[marlywings]

Thanks. I had missed that. Now it's not so preposterous. Still think its a stupid place to throw it. Very possible to miss the guttering and it's on the roof or lost in a garden bed in the dark. A big hassle on what was clearly a busy night for GBC

Maybe he wouldn't have had to throw it up if there's access to the roof,... for example, railings on a deck...climb on those & drop it into guttering.

OR, possible he could have tossed it up there earlier in the night, grabbed it off Allison if she'd been trying to call someone.