Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Flinders]

Excuse me please, but what makes anyone think that OW is "so religious?"
Sorry if I have missed something vital here.
OW was discharged from the Australian Army on ? grounds.
OW is married to a Baptist minister, and lives in Townsville.
OW speaks well in public. Polished public speaker.
Sorry.... Still can't get the connection....

Definition of religious
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion

2. imbued with or exhibiting religion; pious; devout; godly: a religious person

3. scrupulously faithful; conscientious: religious care.

4. pertaining to or connected with a monastic or religious order.

5. appropriate to religion or to sacred rites or observances.

Do you have a link or insider that she was discharged

Plus religion is not a bad thing as ABC participated in a church music group for kids and that church held a service for her safe return.

If I was married to a pastor and his income relied on my adherence to purity of spirit. MOO I would follow that path or not.

Are you thinking maybe OW doesn't have control. Is her hub telling her to do what she is doing?

On the other hand she is her own woman.

:truce:

 

[Flinders]

I shall endeavour to keep you up to date with this event. I am not allowed (WS rules) to post Brian M's posts from AC site. Yes Brian M is Sasha's owner. He was called upon last month to give evidence, but feels like he was tricked into saying that which he had no intention of saying in Court last month by Davis.
Brian's own words are:
"4.00am is a special time Darkest before the dawn."

Brian M sounds like an altogether normal person who is still in shock and hurting. This crime appears to have a "ripple effect" on so many people.

"Dark" may be how many people feel about this heinous crime.

I would really like that the Dickie's are aware. It is a march for their daughter. This will happen during a school term and my opinion is that it is publicised. My honest opinion is through it all we must respect children who have to go to keep a semblance of routine. Don't push them out of it or make others hide them away.

Brookfield a caring community as per MSM. How can you grieve as adults while accepting that you are only small players compared to Allison's children.

My motto is grieve in private and let the kids be spared. Get a special group donation happening that they are on a holiday at the time.

Moo

 

[DrWatson]

Exactly. Angles of fracture and food caught in teeth. When did she last eat and if it a long standing chip her last meal fragments MOO would be there.

Would have been a bit of a struggle in this case, Flinders - and sorry for any mental images here - but the mouth was full of insects and maggots. Even the tongue was pretty much gone - a bit of residual tongue was identified.

So anyone looking for "meal fragments" would have had no chance. Long since gone into the general decay.

A forensic dentist DID examine the teeth, and concluded that the chip could have been old or new - couldn't tell. Also, it was on the surface of the tooth facing the tooth next to it, not facing outwards (or inwards).

It was on tooth 33. Now for those who know that we only have 32 teeth, this may seem somewhat surprising, but in forensic dentistry, the teeth are numbered differently, using a two-digit system. The first digit indicates the quadrant (in this case quadrant 3 - lower left) and the second digit is the number of the tooth within that quadrant. So in Allison's case, the chipped tooth was the 3rd tooth along the bottom left quadrant - the lower canine.

The chip was on the meso-incisal surface - that is, the surface facing the incisor, the next tooth along. In other words, between the teeth. It wasn't on the forward-facing, or top-edge aspects, which may be expected from a blow or knocking the tooth with something hard.

So - cause of chip: unknown
Age of chip: unknown

I doubt we'll ever know if there is any significance to that chip - but I doubt that there is. Could have been present for ages - many people have little chips in their teeth and not all will get them filled.

 

[Flinders]

You read my mind... But after looking at phone records and not knowing the locations I considered a dot to dot of locals. Start at point 1 and follow along.

However if you have experience with Excell it will give you info. However if you get one thing wrong it's fail. Can I just add... Go qps for the face time call error.

Sorry to quote myself. What I was trying to say about qps is the facetime call turned out to be wrong. Problem solved, no cover up. They must still have some compelling evidence for their case.

Thank you Doc for your chipped tooth info. Thanks for giving the graphic warning at the start.

 

[LadyBird1]

Do you have a link or insider that she was discharged

Plus religion is not a bad thing as ABC participated in a church music group for kids and that church held a service for her safe return.

If I was married to a pastor and his income relied on my adherence to purity of spirit. MOO I would follow that path or not.

Are you thinking maybe OW doesn't have control. Is her hub telling her to do what she is doing?

On the other hand she is her own woman.

:truce:

BADEN CLAY, Olivia (Isabel), Born 26 Sep 1973 in Umtali, Rhodesia; Officer Cadet, Australian Defence Force to 2000; invalided out.
The Powell Pedigree: 500 years of Family History
www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-family-tree-500-years.htmBADEN CLAY, Olivia (Isabel),

In no way am I suggesting religion is a bad thing. It's when religion is used as a tool for achieving one's own ends that is evil.
Pure religion is another matter entirely.
OW appears to maintain a steely determination, a resolve that will not be swayed by anything at all. That her brother is innocent and gets off is all that matters.
The truth, justice or even Allison appear insignificant.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal."

 

[linette]

BADEN CLAY, Olivia (Isabel), Born 26 Sep 1973 in Umtali, Rhodesia; Officer Cadet, Australian Defence Force to 2000; invalided out.
The Powell Pedigree: 500 years of Family History
www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-family-tree-500-years.htmBADEN CLAY, Olivia (Isabel),

In no way am I suggesting religion is a bad thing. It's when religion is used as a tool for achieving one's own ends that is evil.
Pure religion is another matter entirely.
OW appears to maintain a steely determination, a resolve that will not be swayed by anything at all. That her brother is innocent and gets off is all that matters.
The truth, justice or even Allison appear insignificant.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal."

I agree, religion is fine as long as it is genuine. There have been so many cases where religion is used as a cover up of many other things.

It is sometimes used as a 'crutch' which people use to prop themselves up... so they can be seen as a fine upstanding member of the community or to get them through certain times.
People who are genuinely religious would hold these beliefs at all times, and would not use it as a shield.

You're right also about Allison seeming not to matter in her quest to have her brother freed. Allison was the innocent one here and that should be put above all else. Fair enough to support your family, but it should be in the way of "Gerard, look, if you have done this then you need to come clean. Please, for the sake of your daughters, come clean. If you really didn't do this i would stand by you, you know that. BUT I'm begging you that if you are guilty please be a man and admit it."

 

[Seeking]

I agree, religion is fine as long as it is genuine. There have been so many cases where religion is used as a cover up of many other things.

It is sometimes used as a 'crutch' which people use to prop themselves up... so they can be seen as a fine upstanding member of the community or to get them through certain times.
People who are genuinely religious would hold these beliefs at all times, and would not use it as a shield.

You're right also about Allison seeming not to matter in her quest to have her brother freed. Allison was the innocent one here and that should be put above all else. Fair enough to support your family, but it should be in the way of "Gerard, look, if you have done this then you need to come clean. Please, for the sake of your daughters, come clean. If you really didn't do this i would stand by you, you know that. BUT I'm begging you that if you are guilty please be a man and admit it."

How do we know that OW hasn't privately pleaded with her brother in this manner?

 

[linette]

How do we know that OW hasn't privately pleaded with her brother in this manner?

Yes, she very well could have. But I'm thinking that surely she must see the evidence against him and somewhere deep inside she has to have massive doubts.
With massive doubts it would be hard to speak like she does about his innocence. Allison hardly rates a mention.
OW comes across like she KNOWS 100% that he is innocent ... no room for doubt. Of course what she really believes is another matter altogether. Myself I could not support my brother the way she is and have doubts as well.

Outside the court room a couple of weeks ago was the first time I'd ever seen any of the BC's say that the police should be looking at other possibilities. Why not scream that when he was first a suspect, not at his commital hearing.

This is the big thing everyone seemed to notice, that the BC's said nothing. There were no alternatives offered. They all just shut up. Even OW was very quiet for a while there.

 

[Flinders]

I don't know any Australian Baptists but this Church in the US believe..

What Does The Bible Teach About Self-Defense?

Accidental Death – As tragic as it is, it is not murder to kill someone accidentally (Numbers 35:20-23)

Self-Defense – It is not murder to defend oneself or your loved ones and property (Exodus 22:2-3)

http://www.firstbaptistchurchoc.org/Articles/self_defense.htm

 

[linette]

There is also a good chance that GBC has spun his sister some massive line of BS , enough to make her wonder, if he was framed etc. But even then why wouldn't she go to the police with her suspicions? If you think a family member is being unfairly treated you act fast and you do whatever you can to get them off. All she seems to be doing is talking, saying things... doesn't seem to have anything to back it up.

 

[linette]

I don't know any Australian Baptists but this Church in the US believe..

What Does The Bible Teach About Self-Defense?

Accidental Death – As tragic as it is, it is not murder to kill someone accidentally (Numbers 35:20-23)

Self-Defense – It is not murder to defend oneself or your loved ones and property (Exodus 22:2-3)

http://www.firstbaptistchurchoc.org/Articles/self_defense.htm

I think it's classed as manslaughter if you kill someone accidentally isn't it? I don't believe that is murder either... but then to go to great lengths to cover it up is changing things.

Self defence again, to me, isn't murder unless it was way over the top on what you needed to do to defend yourself.

So if OW believes he killed Allison accidentally then she should be pushing that, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to get rid of the body and claim someone is just missing and still just go for accidental death.

Interesting, Flinders, thanks for posting that info.

 

[Flinders]

Yes, she very well could have. But I'm thinking that surely she must see the evidence against him and somewhere deep inside she has to have massive doubts.
With massive doubts it would be hard to speak like she does about his innocence. Allison hardly rates a mention.
OW comes across like she KNOWS 100% that he is innocent ... no room for doubt. Of course what she really believes is another matter altogether. Myself I could not support my brother the way she is and have doubts as well.

Outside the court room a couple of weeks ago was the first time I'd ever seen any of the BC's say that the police should be looking at other possibilities. Why not scream that when he was first a suspect, not at his commital hearing.

This is the big thing everyone seemed to notice, that the BC's said nothing. There were no alternatives offered. They all just shut up. Even OW was very quiet for a while there.

Maybe they were quiet because of this..

He has since left media liaison to his lawyer, Darren Mahoney, who issued a statement saying the hiring of counsel was prudent given the intense public interest in the case.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...ing-husband-20120512-1yj5w.html#ixzz2PdcvyP1B

 

[linette]

Maybe they were quiet because of this..

He has since left media liaison to his lawyer, Darren Mahoney, who issued a statement saying the hiring of counsel was prudent given the intense public interest in the case.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...ing-husband-20120512-1yj5w.html#ixzz2PdcvyP1B

Possibly, but when things look as bad as they do for GBC you'd think if the family believe he is innocent they wouldn't let anyone stop them.
Just say GBC was actually innocent... if I were a family member I'd be pretty p'd off with the solictors because they're certainly not helping find the truth.

If on the other hand I thought or knew he was guilty and there was no way out of it, I might sit back and just hope that the solicitors could wrangle him out of it.

 

[LadyBird1]

I don't know any Australian Baptists but this Church in the US believe..

What Does The Bible Teach About Self-Defense?

Accidental Death – As tragic as it is, it is not murder to kill someone accidentally (Numbers 35:20-23)

Self-Defense – It is not murder to defend oneself or your loved ones and property (Exodus 22:2-3)

http://www.firstbaptistchurchoc.org/Articles/self_defense.htm

Interesting reading. Interesting too that GBC has gone all out to date to CONCEAL truths. He will say he is innocent until he dies, IMO.
The truth is Allison is dead.
He has spun the suicide line until it ran dry and withered.
If his father were involved, then I suspect the fear of his father would outweigh the fear of anything else, Heavenly Father included. IMO.
To suggest self defence would require an admission of a fight.
Everything to date reeks of concealment, lies, and lack of remorse.

Interesting too is "An eye for an eye" understanding according to various religions races and creeds throughout the ages.
The notion that for every wrong done there should be a compensating measure of justice.

 

[Flinders]

I thought a defantants legal team don't have to find the truth. They have look at the case and poke holes in it enough to create doubt.

 

[linette]

I thought a defantants legal team don't have to find the truth. They have look at the case and poke holes in it enough to create doubt.

I guess I didn't word that right. What I meant was finding the truth being that he didn't do it. Make sense?

 

[LadyBird1]

I think it's classed as manslaughter if you kill someone accidentally isn't it? I don't believe that is murder either... but then to go to great lengths to cover it up is changing things.

Self defence again, to me, isn't murder unless it was way over the top on what you needed to do to defend yourself.

So if OW believes he killed Allison accidentally then she should be pushing that, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to get rid of the body and claim someone is just missing and still just go for accidental death.

Interesting, Flinders, thanks for posting that info.

Of course there is the additional problem with the Insurance company being called on before Allison's body was formally identified.
Manslaughter? Self defence? Appears like GBC is digging his own grave. The more he tries to dig his way out, the deeper that grave becomes. IMO.

 

[Flinders]

Of course there is the additional problem with the Insurance company being called on before Allison's body was formally identified.
Manslaughter? Self defence? Appears like GBC is digging his own grave. The more he tries to dig his way out, the deeper that grave becomes. IMO.

I think it's a safe assumption that blind freddy could have assumed it probably maybe was ABC. The media coverage, the resources at the discovery site.

I'd like to see who he called first after being told of a discovery. Was it TM. Was it his 'media adviser'. Don't know but it looks like a call to an insurance company before calling others means or could mean.... I need the money yesterday.

Moo

 

[they'll get you]

Yes, she very well could have. But I'm thinking that surely she must see the evidence against him and somewhere deep inside she has to have massive doubts.
With massive doubts it would be hard to speak like she does about his innocence. Allison hardly rates a mention.
OW comes across like she KNOWS 100% that he is innocent ... no room for doubt. Of course what she really believes is another matter altogether. Myself I could not support my brother the way she is and have doubts as well.

Outside the court room a couple of weeks ago was the first time I'd ever seen any of the BC's say that the police should be looking at other possibilities. Why not scream that when he was first a suspect, not at his commital hearing.

This is the big thing everyone seemed to notice, that the BC's said nothing. There were no alternatives offered. They all just shut up. Even OW was very quiet for a while there.

All the BC's including G have had many chances to shout the real reason for Allisons death. They have had plenty of chances. COUGH IT UP! WHAT OTHER INVESTIGATIONS DO THE POLICE NEED TO DO? If OW believes it was someone else suely she would have said loudly when the police first arrived, in her statement, the little bit hurt tape and business as usual. Instead of running from the press through that gate, that was her chance of saying -'OMG they're holding the wrong person & there's a killer out there. I need to warn everyone lock your doors there is a still killer out there!!'
I think the locals know they don't need to lock up and be fearful cause they've got their man.
How unlawful would it have been to say what she believes what really happened outside the court instead of wishy washy tripe with loose ends.
From the very beginning I would be telling of names, creditors or hitmen who may have had a reason of doing this but no!
Like Jill Meagher there were posters of her EVERYWHERE within moments of her disappearance. Did any of the family do that??
'the truth will come out'? When? What truth? Who OW?

Sorry just too little too late.

What does she say to bro through the glass @ court? Surely it's been said before.

What unbelievable strength the Dickies showed to stand either side of G at the funeral.
I think I detected a very watchful eye from Mr & Mrs Dickie that day. They knew an arrest was imminent.

When is the trial because I'm thinking of have a week off work and flying up to QLD.
WEBSLEUTHS TENT CITY.

 

[linette]

I think it's a safe assumption that blind freddy could have assumed it probably maybe was ABC. The media coverage, the resources at the discovery site.

I'd like to see who he called first after being told of a discovery. Was it TM. Was it his 'media adviser'. Don't know but it looks like a call to an insurance company before calling others means or could mean.... I need the money yesterday.

Moo

I wonder what his first reaction was... was it "Oh finally!! At last they've found the body now I can get on with this insurance claim." or was it "Oh crap, they've found her already?? Better get on to plan B... or am I supposed to be on plan C now, damn it, I'm confused!!"