Andrea Lyon New DP Atty

[OneLostGrl]

Oh, one can always appeal but the trick is to find an issue that will cause the appellate panel to overturn the verdict or send the case back to the trial court. You're absolutely right, no matter what, there will be appeals. What the judge and state are trying to avoid is allowing anything to happen that could make for a successful appeal and cause them to have to retry the case. I'm confident they're always careful but with the mountain-range (more than just a mountain) of evidence they have in this case, I'd bet they're being even more careful than usual, kwim?

I know some may disagree or even just are more cautious so as to not take a guilty verdict for granted, but imo it's the state's case to lose at this point; no way the defense could "win." Everything I hear from the defense seems to indicate to me they agree with me. For example, if they really have evidence that would prove KC innocent, not just get her acquitted, but prove her innocent as they claim; not only why do they let her sit in jail for two years (maybe more) before trial but why are they so desperate to get the dp off the table?

I suppose she could try to appeal based on the fact that her lawyer sucks and did absolutely nothing to help her case. I wouldn't be surprised- dude's a lousy lawyer (I'm not lawyer bashing, just refering to this lawyer).

 

[lin]

I know what you mean ,SnowWalker. It's hard to imagine there could ever be a motive for a parent to kill a two year old! There really is no motive because there are so many other options if you just want to relieve yourself of the burden of a child.
In this case the Prosecution has KC's new boy toy who told her he didn't really want Caylee around at times and supposedly said he only wanted boys .
Then you have a contentious relationship with her parents,especially her mother ,over Caylee.CA making noises about getting custody of Caylee,the jealousy between the two for Caylee's affections.The possible fight.The fact that Caylee was becoming more verbal and could blow Mommies cover!
I think they will have suggestions for a motive.
They may even have evidence of where Caylee was killed,although they don't need it.Much was taken from the house in December.We'll have to wait and see.
I'm still very impressed with the SA's and JS.Not so much with the highly touted AL. There's a lot to be hopeful about .

BBM -

Excellent summary. As for blowing mommie's cover, that could have happened with more than just KC's enabler's but also around her 'cute boys' and I'm not sure which would have been a bigger fear/motivator for her.

 

[lin]

Didn't they just say at court the other day that AL hasn't even filed a motion for the attorney of record yet? I don't understand why she is even allowed to speak in court. She isn't Casey's lawyer, ya know?.

That was on the fraud case that she hadn't filed a notice of appearance yet. You're correct that technically she shouldn't have been arguing the motion about postponing it but it was more expedient for everyone to let her. What was the alternative? Postponing until she files? The defense would have liked that way too much.

 

[lin]

I suppose she could try to appeal based on the fact that her lawyer sucks and did absolutely nothing to help her case. I wouldn't be surprised- dude's a lousy lawyer (I'm not lawyer bashing, just refering to this lawyer).

Again, you're correct. You do that a lot.

Ineffective assistance of counsel is a very common attempt at creating an appellate issue but it's not very often successful. JB is so bad though, the state insisted that KC be present for the hearings, I believe, partially so she can't say she had no clue how incredibly inept of a lawyer he is.

 

[snow_walker]

I may not have made myself quite clear, I have no doubt KC killed Caylee. And I have no doubt it was intentional, not an accident. But to arrive at that conclusion, one needs to look at the whole scenerio.. to understand what really happened with this case, one needs to stop and look at bits and pieces of evidence, no one of which makes a clear cut case, but when considered as a whole, make a very clear picture.. KC is guilty.. I totally agree.

I was just saying a judge who was not quite on top of things might be persuaded to take a quick glance at things and dismiss the case out of hand, for lack of a simple clear cut route to the verdict.. this is no "Miss Scarlett did it in the kitchen with a candlestick", sort of case, it takes a bit of time to absorb the evidence, fit the pieces together, and draw conclusions ...

 

[Pink Panther]

Oh, one can always appeal but the trick is to find an issue that will cause the appellate panel to overturn the verdict or send the case back to the trial court. You're absolutely right, no matter what, there will be appeals. What the judge and state are trying to avoid is allowing anything to happen that could make for a successful appeal and cause them to have to retry the case. I'm confident they're always careful but with the mountain-range (more than just a mountain) of evidence they have in this case, I'd bet they're being even more careful than usual, kwim?

I know some may disagree or even just are more cautious so as to not take a guilty verdict for granted, but imo it's the state's case to lose at this point; no way the defense could "win." Everything I hear from the defense seems to indicate to me they agree with me. For example, if they really have evidence that would prove KC innocent, not just get her acquitted, but prove her innocent as they claim; not only why do they let her sit in jail for two years (maybe more) before trial but why are they so desperate to get the dp off the table?

From what I've managed to understand this motion for insufficient evidence is strategic on two counts...

1) It's a good safeguard for future appeals ("cover your azz) AND

2) It can potentially force the prosecution to reveal their strategy as they will have to counter that there IS sufficient evidence thereby revealing what their case is prior to the trial.

MOO

 

[TakeNote]

 

[Brini]

And, the chloroform, and the computer searches, and the tattoo, and the mysterious bandit squirrels that kept dying under her hood!

The squirels died of hypercholesterolemia, from the pizza.

 

[Brini]

And, the chloroform, and the computer searches, and the tattoo, and the mysterious bandit squirrels that kept dying under her hood!

Got it! The nanny at Sawgrass murdered Caylee.

The nanny at Blanchard killed Caylee by accident! ;-)

 

[Brini]

Oh, one can always appeal but the trick is to find an issue that will cause the appellate panel to overturn the verdict or send the case back to the trial court. You're absolutely right, no matter what, there will be appeals. What the judge and state are trying to avoid is allowing anything to happen that could make for a successful appeal and cause them to have to retry the case. I'm confident they're always careful but with the mountain-range (more than just a mountain) of evidence they have in this case, I'd bet they're being even more careful than usual, kwim?

I know some may disagree or even just are more cautious so as to not take a guilty verdict for granted, but imo it's the state's case to lose at this point; no way the defense could "win." Everything I hear from the defense seems to indicate to me they agree with me. For example, if they really have evidence that would prove KC innocent, not just get her acquitted, but prove her innocent as they claim; not only why do they let her sit in jail for two years (maybe more) before trial but why are they so desperate to get the dp off the table?

JB working on his exoneration story line: :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Brini]

BBM -

Excellent summary. As for blowing mommie's cover, that could have happened with more than just KC's enabler's but also around her 'cute boys' and I'm not sure which would have been a bigger fear/motivator for her.

Well, eventially (soon) Caylee's ripening verbal skills woulda put a DEAD STOP to KC's "splitting."

And, that's a primary defense for an Axis: II.

 

[Brini]

Again, you're correct. You do that a lot.

Ineffective assistance of counsel is a very common attempt at creating an appellate issue but it's not very often successful. JB is so bad though, the state insisted that KC be present for the hearings, I believe, partially so she can't say she had no clue how incredibly inept of a lawyer he is.

Now, if the state could only give her No-Doz, for the hearings....

 

[MissJames]

The squirels died of hypercholesterolemia, from the pizza.

OT,but speaking of the squirrels,when was the last time you RAN OVER something and it plastered itself to your car? Bugs are off the ground,so they get stuck,but animals usually stay on the ground.Flying squirrels ,perhaps?

 

[MissJames]

JB working on his exoneration story line: :banghead::banghead::banghead:

JB
She was tried in the media and never stood a chance,blah,blah,blah.
LE never looked for anyone else,just assumed it was KC ,blah,blah,blah.

I can't wait to hear AL's motion !The last DP attorney said he had a difference of opinion with JB .Wonder if AL is gettin' through to him.
It's very interesting to read the Astro's thread and see all the correllations!JMO

 

[Tuffy]

OT,but speaking of the squirrels,when was the last time you RAN OVER something and it plastered itself to your car? Bugs are off the ground,so they get stuck,but animals usually stay on the ground.Flying squirrels ,perhaps?

I know it's a bit OT, but EXCELLENT point!

Really, and even if part or all of the animal were to stick to the undercarriage of your car, would the smell be so overwhelming and persistent? Would the smell invade the trunk and passenger compartment of the vehicle, becoming more and more intense?

I don't think so.

Car vs. squirrel accidents happen daily around here. It's not uncommon to see the evidence on the road. I've never however, heard anyone comment on the smell.

I have a hard time believing that anyone hearing the squirrel excuse would do anything but laugh at the ridiculousness.

 

[aafromaa]

Can't remember, but didn't some information come out in the media in the form of a release of discovery and then the prosecution announced they were seeking the death penalty again? (or vice versa)

Was that when the duct tape on head info was released?

Prosecutors filed notice of intent to seek the DP in mid-April stating that "sufficient aggrevating circumstances exist to justify the imposition of the death penalty" - they said that additional information had become available - that additional information had to become available between 12/5/08 (when the said they would not seek it) and 4/12/09 when they filed the notice of intent to seek it.

Between those dates the following (and more) happened:

1) the remains were found - along with items that could be from the A's home like the laundry bag, garbage bag, & duct tape
2) doc dumps - I think in Jan, Feb, Mar, & April
3) GA suicide watch
4) Caylee's memorial service
5) civil suit depos - I know LA's was before notice of intent was filed but I don't recall whether GA's & CA's were before or after

Also keep in mind that whatever the "additional information" was that became available between 12/5/08 and 4/12/09 it doesn't mean that information became available to us during those dates - but to the prosecution. It could have been something in doc dumps after 4/12 or something that has yet to be released too. (Even though, my guess is that it involved the discovery of the remains and the analysis of the evidence gathered at the scene and/or connected to it.)

 

[lin]

I may not have made myself quite clear, I have no doubt KC killed Caylee. And I have no doubt it was intentional, not an accident. But to arrive at that conclusion, one needs to look at the whole scenerio.. to understand what really happened with this case, one needs to stop and look at bits and pieces of evidence, no one of which makes a clear cut case, but when considered as a whole, make a very clear picture.. KC is guilty.. I totally agree.

I was just saying a judge who was not quite on top of things might be persuaded to take a quick glance at things and dismiss the case out of hand, for lack of a simple clear cut route to the verdict.. this is no "Miss Scarlett did it in the kitchen with a candlestick", sort of case, it takes a bit of time to absorb the evidence, fit the pieces together, and draw conclusions ...

I understood that is your position. Just refreshing our memories about one of what I perceive to be the "bigger" things that would be hard to get around and linking to the 'evidence against accidental death' thread for those who may have concerns that could be a possible defense.

 

[lin]

From what I've managed to understand this motion for insufficient evidence is strategic on two counts...

1) It's a good safeguard for future appeals ("cover your azz) AND

2) It can potentially force the prosecution to reveal their strategy as they will have to counter that there IS sufficient evidence thereby revealing what their case is prior to the trial.

MOO

Judge S probably will allow a hearing on this issue in an abundance of caution but if I was the judge on the case, I'd deny the motion without hearing figuring the potential issue for appeal will be moot when she's convicted by a jury. Clearly, if she is convicted there was sufficient evidence and therefore, rejecting that request was a good call and I don't think a sustainable issue on appeal.

 

[Brini]

JB
She was tried in the media and never stood a chance,blah,blah,blah.
LE never looked for anyone else,just assumed it was KC ,blah,blah,blah.

I can't wait to hear AL's motion !The last DP attorney said he had a difference of opinion with JB .Wonder if AL is gettin' through to him.
It's very interesting to read the Astro's thread and see all the correllations!JMO

Yeah, well those folks we have on that thread are VERY good!

Some of them work with Vedic AND Western astrology. Some really dazzling posters keep referring to themselves as "amateurs."

I'm a student out of a Netherlands astrology college. I'm seeing GOOD stufff!

 

[lin]

JB
She was tried in the media and never stood a chance,blah,blah,blah.
LE never looked for anyone else,just assumed it was KC ,blah,blah,blah.

I can't wait to hear AL's motion !The last DP attorney said he had a difference of opinion with JB .Wonder if AL is gettin' through to him.
It's very interesting to read the Astro's thread and see all the correllations!JMO

The facts in this case are really, really bad for the defense. I agree with Bill Shaeffer who opined the best lawyers in the world would have a tough time with this case. I guess my point is that due to what I believe is a mountain-range of evidence against KC, we can't really make a good assessment of AL's skills. She may be really, really good, "as advertised," but there is no way anyone can get around this set of facts, imo.

See 18 minute video here.

While looking for the above link I found this quote:

"WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says it'll be a hard sell to a jury that the mystery killer took great pains to keep secrets until November, after EquuSearch left, then killed Caylee and went to the area which posed the greatest risk of getting caught to hide her body, Caylee's neighborhood, where the media and law enforcement were often focused.

"Not only does it not raise reasonable doubt, it just defies logic. So the defense is gonna have a problem in that area," Sheaffer said."

See the rest of the article here.