Andrea Lyon New DP Atty

[Chiquita71]

lin was asking you in what way you felt the prosecution was with holding evidence.

Princess Rose, You clearly stated in your post #416

"There is no reason not to turn discovery that the defense is entitled to over to them, except for the prosecution to try to gain an advantage at trial by not revealing information that can be questioned until they absolutely have no choice but to reveal it giving the defense less time for testing and considering the evidence to make their case. That is my perception of what the prosecution is doing here while simultaneously protesting that they ARE coooperating" (snipped and not sure how to double quote)

To me it seems to indicate that you are trying to say the SA is purposely trying to with hold evidence from the defense which as stated in many post from lin and others is not the case. Plus I seriously doubt the SA is going to jeopardize this case by doing something of that nature.

lin is asking you for cited examples of where the SA purposely and maliciously is trying to with hold evidence as to have an advantage over the defense as you stated that is what the SA is doing.

Also the prosecution and the judge have no jurisdiction over the FBI. So how is JB not getting evidence from the FBI the SA's fault? JB has to make the proper requests for the info from them. With out the proper requests in the proper format they can't just hand it to him. The judge was very clear with JB on all of that. Also the SA was cooperative and asked the FBI to handle any requests from the defense as though it where a request from the SA.

Further more has JB finally paid the clerks office for his outstanding balance?

Quote Respect Marspiter

The whole subject you guys are discussing here is (at this time)over my head(I will read more). But what I did understand and need to ask about is BBM.
If a lawyer were to fail to "make the proper requests" and in doing so failed to be prepared to defend/prosecute said client...what happens? Sorry for the "101" question.

Thanks

...jmo...

 

[Brini]

The facts in this case are really, really bad for the defense. I agree with Bill Shaeffer who opined the best lawyers in the world would have a tough time with this case. I guess my point is that due to what I believe is a mountain-range of evidence against KC, we can't really make a good assessment of AL's skills. She may be really, really good, "as advertised," but there is no way anyone can get around this set of facts, imo.

See 18 minute video here.

While looking for the above link I found this quote:

"WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says it'll be a hard sell to a jury that the mystery killer took great pains to keep secrets until November, after EquuSearch left, then killed Caylee and went to the area which posed the greatest risk of getting caught to hide her body, Caylee's neighborhood, where the media and law enforcement were often focused.

"Not only does it not raise reasonable doubt, it just defies logic. So the defense is gonna have a problem in that area," Sheaffer said."

See the rest of the article here.

Great vid! Looks like Ms KC bought a lot of rope at Home Depot, braided a noose, handed it to LE, and then braided another one. Then another. Then...

I can't imagine why ANY lawyer would take this on!

 

[lin]

Quote Respect Marspiter

The whole subject you guys are discussing here is (at this time)over my head(I will read more). But what I did understand and need to ask about is BBM.
If a lawyer were to fail to "make the proper requests" and in doing so failed to be prepared to defend/prosecute said client...what happens? Sorry for the "101" question.

Thanks

...jmo...

The pattern in this case, imo, is that when JB wants some discovery, he goes directly to the prosecution and demands they give it to him, whether it's something under their control or not. If memory serves, at every discovery hearing JB gets a bit more "educated" on the discovery procedures. He'll keep going back to court complaining he didn't get something or everything he wanted until someone either gets sick of his whining and gives it to him or explains to him how to get it on his own, imo.

 

[cecybeans]

The facts in this case are really, really bad for the defense. I agree with Bill Shaeffer who opined the best lawyers in the world would have a tough time with this case. I guess my point is that due to what I believe is a mountain-range of evidence against KC, we can't really make a good assessment of AL's skills. She may be really, really good, "as advertised," but there is no way anyone can get around this set of facts, imo.

See 18 minute video here.

While looking for the above link I found this quote:

"WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says it'll be a hard sell to a jury that the mystery killer took great pains to keep secrets until November, after EquuSearch left, then killed Caylee and went to the area which posed the greatest risk of getting caught to hide her body, Caylee's neighborhood, where the media and law enforcement were often focused.

"Not only does it not raise reasonable doubt, it just defies logic. So the defense is gonna have a problem in that area," Sheaffer said."

See the rest of the article here.

bolded by me -

I'm sure it would also strike a jury as impossible that, if Caylee was killed in November, there would have been time within one month for her body to have been skeletonized as completely as it was. We heard this was possible in June and July when the weather was warmer and more humid, but it seems to me that this might have been more difficult in the fall, when the weather had cooled somewhat and plant growth is slowed. The fact that her little bones were so scattered also seems unreasonable to have happened within a few short weeks, imo, although I'm certainly no expert. I would imagine also that there might be a way of determining how much wear and tear or weathering had happened to the blanket and other items found with the body that had been exposed to the weather, especially if compared to the plant growth that was observed in the area and around the items.

Frankly, I find myself wondering why the state took off the death penalty to begin with, particularly after a grand jury seemed to agree that the initial evidence warranted such a charge. I know this motion by AL is perhaps typical defense strategy, but it seems a bit late in the game, particularly given the long and ridiculous delays that JB created that appeared more about creating an image for himself and perhaps generating revenue, than in what was in the best interest for his client.

 

[lin]

bolded by me -

I'm sure it would also strike a jury as impossible that, if Caylee was killed in November, there would have been time within one month for her body to have been skeletonized as completely as it was. We heard this was possible in June and July when the weather was warmer and more humid, but it seems to me that this might have been more difficult in the fall, when the weather had cooled somewhat and plant growth is slowed. The fact that her little bones were so scattered also seems unreasonable to have happened within a few short weeks, imo, although I'm certainly no expert. I would imagine also that there might be a way of determining how much wear and tear or weathering had happened to the blanket and other items found with the body that had been exposed to the weather, especially if compared to the plant growth that was observed in the area and around the items.

Frankly, I find myself wondering why the state took off the death penalty to begin with, particularly after a grand jury seemed to agree that the initial evidence warranted such a charge. I know this motion by AL is perhaps typical defense strategy, but it seems a bit late in the game, particularly given the long and ridiculous delays that JB created that appeared more about creating an image for himself and perhaps generating revenue, than in what was in the best interest for his client.

IMO, the only reason the state decided not to seek the dp was the lack of a body. Once she was found and the evidence tended to show deliberate murder rather than accident, they filed notice of intent to seek dp.

Bet KC is wishing she had taken the deal JB sought out for her early on. Remember that? She was to lead them to the body. I don't think the state would deal with her now for anything less than a life sentence without the possibility of parole. They may agree to forgo the dp to avoid the expense of a trial but I don't think she can hope for more than that. I've wondered many times what sentence they offered JB when he asked for a deal. And I do give him credit for initially trying to plead this out which I believe was the best course for all involved, especially Caylee.

ETA: Email correspondence link in post #550 below. It took a while to find it today and I don't want anyone else taking all that time to find something we already have handy.

 

[Spangle]

The pattern in this case, imo, is that when JB wants some discovery, he goes directly to the prosecution and demands they give it to him, whether it's something under their control or not. If memory serves, at every discovery hearing JB gets a bit more "educated" on the discovery procedures. He'll keep going back to court complaining he didn't get something or everything he wanted until someone either gets sick of his whining and gives it to him or explains to him how to get it on his own, imo.

That is the way I am remembering it.

His demands are open ended and broad. Well beyond the scope of need. Totally illogical. No way he can get everything he requests, but gives him an excuse to whine to the court.

Much of the problem should be able to be handled out of court. If JB would work with the SA and ask them HOW to do things, HOW they want things, etc. He doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know. But it would be less embarrassing then being schooled in public court room..



Yet, works well for delay

 

[Spangle]

IMO, the only reason the state decided not to seek the dp was the lack of a body. Once she was found and the evidence tended to show deliberate murder rather than accident, they filed notice of intent to seek dp.

Bet KC is wishing she had taken the deal JB sought out for her early on. Remember that? She was to lead them to the body. I don't think the state would deal with her now for anything less that a life sentence without the possibility of parole. They may agree to forgo the dp to avoid the expense of a trial but I don't think she can hope for more than that. I've wondered many times what sentence they offered JB when he asked for a deal. And I do give him credit for initially trying to plead this out which I believe was the best course for all involved, especially Caylee.

I thought it was said that there was no deal for her to take. I thought JB said he didn't request a deal, etc. Nor did he receive a deal.

 

[lin]

I thought it was said that there was no deal for her to take. I thought JB said he didn't request a deal, etc. Nor did he receive a deal.

I knew when I posted that I'd get called on it but did it anyway... <slapping own hands>

"...The girl's mother, Casey Anthony, 22, had until 9 a.m. Tuesday to accept an offer of limited immunity to help investigators in the case. Officials with the State Attorney's Office said she did not accept the offer and it has now expired..."

See the rest of the article article here.

Still looking for the email correspondence between JB and the state about it but meantime, [ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2690888&postcount=79] here is a post from then by DianeB mentioning same.[/ame]


ETA: My first clue that JB sought a deal was JB's denial.

 

[Brini]

That is the way I am remembering it.

His demands are open ended and broad. Well beyond the scope of need. Totally illogical. No way he can get everything he requests, but gives him an excuse to whine to the court.

Much of the problem should be able to be handled out of court. If JB would work with the SA and ask them HOW to do things, HOW they want things, etc. He doesn't want to admit that he doesn't know. But it would be less embarrassing then being schooled in public court room..



Yet, works well for delay

Yeah, but after the boy cries wolf to often....everybody goes deaf.

 

[lin]

I demand a round of applause for finding these:

PDF email files.

ETA: Ok, I'm withdrawing my demand; my back is getting a bit sore from all the patting. Some of y'all are real thumpers!! <joking>

 

[essies]

I demand a round of applause for finding these:

PDF email files.

D@mn girl-you're good!!!

 

[ThinkTank]

Wonder if Lyon will use the same arguments against the death penalty, that the previous attorney Lenamon filed with the Court?

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...m+"terence+Lenamon"&cd=32&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Casey Anthony to Face Murder Trial First
Thursday November 6, 2008

Meanwhile, an attorney hired by Casey Anthony's defense team presented a 30-page report to prosecutors outlining reasons why she should not face the death penalty. It points out problems with some of the evidence and argues that the case does not fit the state's criteria for seeking the death penalty.
----------------

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story
Report argues against death for Casey Anthony
----------------
http://edition.cnn.hu/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/08/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE
Casey Anthony Defense Ignores Police Tip Collection
Aired December 8, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET
------------------
http://www.wftv.com/news/19448158/detail.html

Attorney Terence Lenamon now says he stopped representing Casey because he did not agree with the legal strategy of her lead attorney Jose Baez.
---------------------
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17898874/detail.html

Baby Photos Of Caylee's Mom Used In Request To Avoid Death Penalty

 

[MissJames]

I demand a round of applause for finding these:

PDF email files.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
:blowkiss:

 

[lin]

D@mn girl-you're good!!!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
:blowkiss:

Um, well, first off, ALL glory to God; and I want to be sure to thank my mom and my dad and my near perfect hubby and my so perfect kids... um... everyone at the academy... all the mods for harping on the search function all the time... um... I hope I'm not leaving any one out... um...

ETA: in linspeak "harping" = "gently reminding in a helpful way"

 

[lin]

Wonder if Lyon will use the same arguments against the death penalty, that the previous attorney Lenamon filed with the Court?

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...m+"terence+Lenamon"&cd=32&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Casey Anthony to Face Murder Trial First
Thursday November 6, 2008

Meanwhile, an attorney hired by Casey Anthony's defense team presented a 30-page report to prosecutors outlining reasons why she should not face the death penalty. It points out problems with some of the evidence and argues that the case does not fit the state's criteria for seeking the death penalty.
----------------

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story
Report argues against death for Casey Anthony
----------------
http://edition.cnn.hu/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/08/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE
Casey Anthony Defense Ignores Police Tip Collection
Aired December 8, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET
------------------
http://www.wftv.com/news/19448158/detail.html

Attorney Terence Lenamon now says he stopped representing Casey because he did not agree with the legal strategy of her lead attorney Jose Baez.
---------------------
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17898874/detail.html

Baby Photos Of Caylee's Mom Used In Request To Avoid Death Penalty

That would need to be redone; a lot of the arguments used won't apply any longer as Caylee's remains have been found and a lot more evidence has been gathered in the form of depositions, etc.

 

[chefmom]

I demand a round of applause for finding these:

PDF email files.

 

[Intermezzo]

I know it's a bit OT, but EXCELLENT point!

Really, and even if part or all of the animal were to stick to the undercarriage of your car, would the smell be so overwhelming and persistent? Would the smell invade the trunk and passenger compartment of the vehicle, becoming more and more intense?

I don't think so.

Car vs. squirrel accidents happen daily around here. It's not uncommon to see the evidence on the road. I've never however, heard anyone comment on the smell.

I have a hard time believing that anyone hearing the squirrel excuse would do anything but laugh at the ridiculousness.

I'd like to add, if there was a dead squirrel plastered to her car there would also be the dead squirrels blood.

 

[Intermezzo]

snipped

Yeah, well those folks we have on that thread are VERY good!

:thumb:

 

[Intermezzo]

IMO, the only reason the state decided not to seek the dp was the lack of a body. Once she was found and the evidence tended to show deliberate murder rather than accident, they filed notice of intent to seek dp.

Bet KC is wishing she had taken the deal JB sought out for her early on. Remember that? She was to lead them to the body. I don't think the state would deal with her now for anything less than a life sentence without the possibility of parole. They may agree to forgo the dp to avoid the expense of a trial but I don't think she can hope for more than that. I've wondered many times what sentence they offered JB when he asked for a deal. And I do give him credit for initially trying to plead this out which I believe was the best course for all involved, especially Caylee.

BBM
I remember that Lin.
I know I read the email LDB sent JB, back in August I think.
Casey/JB didn't take the deal and that is what Casey was referring to in the letter she wrote a few months back..where she said Ashton was mad at her for not taking the plea deal.

 

[Intermezzo]

I thought it was said that there was no deal for her to take. I thought JB said he didn't request a deal, etc. Nor did he receive a deal.

Oh yes Spangle there was a deal :deal: back in August IIRC, I do remember reading an email sent to JB from the SA office, LDB.
I'll try to find it...
And also IIRC it was JB who initiated the communication about a deal...