Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell - COD: "Heroin Poisoning"

[hey-Debbie]

Or could it have been a situation where there was partying going on, the overdose happened, but whoever was with her didn't realize until the next morning? Maybe they crashed and when they woke up found out that she had OD'd. That would explain the "I'm not ready to come home yet." text -- someone was freaking out trying to figure out what to do.

This certainly could have happened at a hotel room, or somewhere else, and then whoever hid her body could have taken her to the abandoned house, as opposed to partying going on AT the vacant house. I don't think that was the case. I think if people were partying at that house someone would have noticed that going on. I think it was just a place where she would not be found for a while.

I do not think it is outside the realm of possibility that she was encouraged to "try" it, someone else shot her up (because, really, would she do it herself the first time?), and it was too much for her system.
Just my opinion, though.

This is exactly my theory as well.

 

[Empress Theodora]

Do we know if she had puncture wounds or track marks? If it was ingested i would lean towards o.d., track marks would show multiple use, one puncture wound could prove murder.

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I'm jumping off of your post, NOT debating it, because you make a VERY good point. Unfortunately the problem is that one puncture wound could also lend itself to the possibility it was her first time, or she had done it before but healed and hadn't done it in a long time... and although you (and I) believe that evidence of ingestion would likely point to an OD, some may still insist it was a forced ingestion, etc.

Just a thought, bouncing off of what someone else stated earlier: if it was AJ's first time or one of her first times using the drug, wouldn't it be likely that someone else would inject for her? I've never done Class A drugs or used intravenously so I really don't know beyond anecdotes.

All of that being said, I think many of us struggle with the COD because we we thought the revelation of COD would make things more clear, not lead to even more questions. OD still seems most likely to me, but if someone did give her the drug against her will, I have a feeling there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict who did it.

A lot of cases are closed with questions still unresolved. This one is so tough because if AJ DID OD and it can't be proven absolutely, people will always suspect others for their role in her death (beyond providing the drugs, because obviously someone had to do that.) If AJ was murdered it probably won't be proven absolutely and the conclusion that she OD'ed will be unfair to her memory. I am really, really hoping there will be no grey area left when the investigation is done. I just don't foresee that being the case.

All MOO.

 

[courtneyb]

Right. Just like people who have been in the hospital and have had iv's don't have track marks, neither would the occasional user. Track marks are the forming of scar tissue from repeated injections at the same site. You don't get track marks from using occasionally unless you are only injecting in the same exact spot. One might have puncture wounds, if not sufficient time has passed to heal them.

I don't think that if she was using, even injecting, that she had been doing it frequently or long enough for track marks. And the length of time it took to find her body would likely render the job of discerning any healed injection puncture wounds all but impossible.

I think the only way the route of administration will be able to be determined will be by the extent of how metabolized the heroin was in her liver. Or if ingested, in her stomach contents, if smoked, in the lung tissue residue and if snorted, in the sinus cavities as well as the stomach.


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[Happyshoes]

All you sleuthers today have been awesome! Thank you so much..

 

[krig101]

Empress Theodora, I too hope that there is no grey area left. I think investigators are on the right track. So lets say that AJ did do the heroin on her own, why would she be at an abandoned house alone and how did she get there? My gut instinct is that she was not alone on not even possibly at that house when this happened. Someone(S) knows exactly what happened to AJ. Wonder if there were any other drugs in her system.

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[courtneyb]

Empress Theodora, I too hope that there is no grey area left. I think investigators are on the right track. So lets say that AJ did do the heroin on her own, why would she be at an abandoned house alone and how did she get there? My gut instinct is that she was not alone on not even possibly at that house when this happened. Someone(S) knows exactly what happened to AJ. Wonder if there were any other drugs in her system.

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I don't think she was alone, even though I think it's possible she did willingly ingest/smoke/snort/inject heroin (though I think the probability of dying from an overdose from smoking heroin is pretty low).

I firmly believe that if she was using, it was a recent thing. Doing heroin alone does not, for me, fit with someone who is new to the drug. I'm much more inclined to accept that it was being done in a social setting, if she was using. I don't believe she would have been far enough down the road of addiction to be using heroin alone. New users need help.. finding it, possibly injecting it, making sure they are ok. And that is where I think someone failed her. The FIRST thing (besides condoning any possible use) that someone did to fail her, not calling for help. The SECOND thing someone did to fail her was the hiding of her body and the coverup. The THIRD thing someone or someoneS are doing to fail her is not telling the truth about what happened.

They are not protecting her memory. All of the speculation is out there. They are protecting themselves.

Tell the truth. If AJ had started experimenting with drugs and accidentally OD'd, it doesn't take away from the importance she had in peoples' lives. She is by far not the first wonderful, giving, deserving person in the world to have made a mistake.

 

[StacyMarie83]

I'm jumping off of your post, NOT debating it, because you make a VERY good point. Unfortunately the problem is that one puncture wound could also lend itself to the possibility it was her first time, or she had done it before but healed and hadn't done it in a long time... and although you (and I) believe that evidence of ingestion would likely point to an OD, some may still insist it was a forced ingestion, etc.

Just a thought, bouncing off of what someone else stated earlier: if it was AJ's first time or one of her first times using the drug, wouldn't it be likely that someone else would inject for her? I've never done Class A drugs or used intravenously so I really don't know beyond anecdotes.

All of that being said, I think many of us struggle with the COD because we we thought the revelation of COD would make things more clear, not lead to even more questions. OD still seems most likely to me, but if someone did give her the drug against her will, I have a feeling there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict who did it.

A lot of cases are closed with questions still unresolved. This one is so tough because if AJ DID OD and it can't be proven absolutely, people will always suspect others for their role in her death (beyond providing the drugs, because obviously someone had to do that.) If AJ was murdered it probably won't be proven absolutely and the conclusion that she OD'ed will be unfair to her memory. I am really, really hoping there will be no grey area left when the investigation is done. I just don't foresee that being the case.

All MOO.

Agreed. Even if someone else injected her it could still constitute as murder ... whether intentional or not. In my experience with heroin ... track marks don't go away because users don't stop and start this drug. I would think if she had been using there would be evidence of that.

And i respectfully disagree with other posters who think a fine powder can be forcefully ingested. Now injected is a whole different ball game.

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[StacyMarie83]

Right. Just like people who have been in the hospital and have had iv's don't have track marks, neither would the occasional user. Track marks are the forming of scar tissue from repeated injections at the same site. You don't get track marks from using occasionally unless you are only injecting in the same exact spot. One might have puncture wounds, if not sufficient time has passed to heal them.

I don't think that if she was using, even injecting, that she had been doing it frequently or long enough for track marks. And the length of time it took to find her body would likely render the job of discerning any healed injection puncture wounds all but impossible.

I think the only way the route of administration will be able to be determined will be by the extent of how metabolized the heroin was in her liver. Or if ingested, in her stomach contents, if smoked, in the lung tissue residue and if snorted, in the sinus cavities as well as the stomach.


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I have NEVER met an occasional heroin user. Not being snarky, just honest. It's not marijuana ... it's not something you do when you go out every once in awhile ... it's just not that kind I'd drug IMO

And i completely agree with you on how they will have to figure this out. It really is a poisoning case!

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[courtneyb]

I have NEVER met an occasional heroin user. Not being snarky, just honest. It's not marijuana ... it's not something you do when you go out every once in awhile ... it's just not that kind I'd drug IMO

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I've known a few people who would smoke a little bit of it on a joint or snort it occasionally. But never someone who was injecting heroin. At least not one who was a WILLING occasional user (lack of money or supply).

I think that it's not always like you see in the movies, where you try it once and you never are able to not go without it again. What I was trying to get across is that I think if she was using, it was a VERY recent development, and probably had not progressed to her injecting heroin. People who try heroin do not usually jump straight for the needle. I think it's likely she had smoked it a few times, perhaps snorted it, but I don't think she was a full blown addict.

I agree with you that IF she was using heroin, and had continued to use it, she would quickly progress to something much more than an occasional user. Hope that clears up the point I was trying to make.

 

[RubyJuno]

I must be sheltered in some way because I can honestly say I don't know of anyone within my circle of friends or family that uses heroin. It's genuinely heartbreaking that there is so much despair and hopelessness that THIS many people would turn to drugs to feel a small slice of pseudo-joy.

I don't know if I know anyone who uses it. I do know that it's become a serious problem in my fairly straitlaced region of the state. It's kind of astounding to me when I think about one of my favorite movies, Return of the Secaucus Seven (1980)...there are a bunch of old hippies who are now around 30, and one of them is a drug counselor and has some heroin he plans to use, and the others react to it as if he'd uncovered the face of Voldemort, so terrifying it is.

And now it's cheaper than Oxy. Weird.

 

[Aynia]

I have NEVER met an occasional heroin user. Not being snarky, just honest. It's not marijuana ... it's not something you do when you go out every once in awhile ... it's just not that kind I'd drug IMO

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Never did I. I've been around people trying to whit drawl.from heroin and it was the scariest thing ever. I almost got killed for getting myself between the person and the door so he wouldn't leave the house. It took three people to get his hands off my neck. After one week he was allowed to go on a walk... first thing he did, heroin again. Then I told his parents and that time we had to call the police because he was so onto killing me for telling that he kicked and broke the door of his own house to try and kill me.
That was a long time ago. As far as I'm told he's clean now.
But that's just to say I agree with you completely, it's not an occasional. MOO and all that

OT but if any of you don't know, research who's the biggest poppy supplier in the world and who "is taking care " of the country now. Food for thought I guess

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[courtneyb]

Never did I. I've been around people trying to whit drawl.from heroin and it was the scariest thing ever. I almost got killed for getting myself between the person and the door so he wouldn't leave the house. It took three people to get his hands off my neck. After one week he was allowed to go on a walk... first thing he did, heroin again. Then I told his parents and that time we had to call the police because he was so onto killing me for telling that he kicked the door of his own house to try and kill me.
That was a long time ago. As far as I'm told he's clean now.
But that's just to say I agree with you completely, it's not an occasional. MOO and all that

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I absolutely agree with most of what you are saying. However, how do you think a heroin addict gets to be the way that the person you witnessed in withdrawal does? A person does not smoke a bit on a joint and then immediately become intractably addicted. They don't, from that point on, from that first time, never do anything else but seek out and do heroin. That first hit or snort does not turn a person into a zombie like person who is immediately an addict. It happens quickly, but usually over the course of a few weeks to a month. I think if AJ was using, she was likely somewhere in this time period. That is what I mean by the use of the word "occasional".

 

[Aynia]

I absolutely agree with most of what you are saying. However, how do you think a heroin addict gets to be the way that the person you witnessed in withdrawal does? A person does not smoke a bit on a joint and then immediately become intractably addicted. They don't, from that point on, from that first time, never do anything else but seek out and do heroin. That first hit or snort does not turn a person into a zombie like person who is immediately an addict. It happens quickly, but usually over the course of a few weeks to a month. I think if AJ was using, she was likely somewhere in this time period. That is what I mean by the use of the word "occasional".

Thank you for explaining that.
The person /s I knew all shot. Never even thought snorting or something like that.
Just to get more on topic I'm with you all that think that the location AJ was found is most suspicious.

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[courtneyb]

Thank you for explaining that.
The person /s I knew all shot. Never even thought snorting or something like that.
Just to get more on topic I'm with you all that think that the location AJ was found is most suspicious.

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I think so too. I think the house where she was was more than an abandoned house. I think the house has some sort of significance, symbolically or sentimentally.

 

[StacyMarie83]

I absolutely agree with most of what you are saying. However, how do you think a heroin addict gets to be the way that the person you witnessed in withdrawal does? A person does not smoke a bit on a joint and then immediately become intractably addicted. They don't, from that point on, from that first time, never do anything else but seek out and do heroin. That first hit or snort does not turn a person into a zombie like person who is immediately an addict. It happens quickly, but usually over the course of a few weeks to a month. I think if AJ was using, she was likely somewhere in this time period. That is what I mean by the use of the word "occasional".

Completely agree ... it is not like meth in that first hit addiction. Usually the user is looking for that first high again and that's what starts the addiction bc you'll never get there.

I was wondering if she was lied to about what she was doing if in fact she was voluntarily using. A novice wouldn't know the difference between cocaine and heroin if snorting or smoking. Also, cocaine is more of a party/social drug.

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[StacyMarie83]

I think so too. I think the house where she was was more than an abandoned house. I think the house has some sort of significance, symbolically or sentimentally.

Yes, someone had to have been there and known that location before this horrific finding happened IMO

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[courtneyb]

Completely agree ... it is not like meth in that first hit addiction. Usually the user is looking for that first high again and that's what starts the addiction bc you'll never get there.

I was wondering if she was lied to about what she was doing if in fact she was voluntarily using. A novice wouldn't know the difference between cocaine and heroin if snorting or smoking.

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That's interesting... I have definitely heard of people who unknowingly smoked PCP or heroin on a joint, after they realized the effects were much more than that of marijuana. Some people think that junk is funny... like a joke.

The hair strand test results are going to be able to clear that up, hopefully.

 

[Aynia]

.

I was wondering if she was lied to about what she was doing if in fact she was voluntarily using. A novice wouldn't know the difference between cocaine and heroin if snorting or smoking.

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RSBM
Novice or not, I don't believe one wouldn't know the difference between coke and heroin. You can tell just by looking at it. JMHO

ETA given the above post between mine and the one I quoted, maybe I was too fast on my opinion. Maybe because I grew up around drug people since before I was even born, unfortunately.
Sorry didn't meant to offend anyone.

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[FindHG]

Woops, meant to say most parents AREN'T jerk criminals that do things outside the law.

You came through loud and clear, OM

Whoever thinks a faultless Piece to see,
Thinks what ne'er was, nor is, nor e'er shall be. A. Pope 253

 

[arkansasmimi]

Do we know if she had puncture wounds or track marks? If it was ingested i would lean towards o.d., track marks would show multiple use, one puncture wound could prove murder.

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JMHO but depending upon how long AJ was in the elements could make it harder to see something like that . We dont know what shape her remains were in. They did bring in a Forensic Anthropologist so hopefully he/she was able to be oh great help.