Anthonys want autopsy results sealed AND ALL Autopsy Updates

[MissJames]

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the rest of Caylee's ashes were in the teddy bear sitting on the table next to her picture at the memorial. Sort of an Anthony "joke" as it were. George did mention in his eulogy that he had a new locket. There was also mention that his "suicide" attempt was instigated by picking out jewelry for Caylee's memorial. I know it's around here in a more appropriate thread.

If true, I hope carrying her ashes near gives the family some comfort. However, I doubt it will keep her autopsy report from being made public!

Wow, this is hitting very close to home for me.
The A's said Caylee's remains would be kept private out of fear that someone would try to steal them. In this crazy world today I think they got it right this time.
Also ,my son was cremated and four lockets were made up for myself and his 3 sisters.We wear them a lot,but not all the time.His ashes sit on a shelf ,along with a Teddy Bear he gave me,not long before he died,so I'm not finding anything strange yet,Carolina Moon LOL.My oldest son would like to spread the ashes somewhere,but I can't let go yet.
There is an autopsy report,because my child committed suicide,but I could never bring myself to read it.
We had a wonderful ,caring coroner very similar to Dr.G.She treated us with compassion ,while at the same time asking some tough questions.She did her job well.The same with LE.
I think if the A's had been in a different frame of mind they would have found that same compassion,while feeling assured everyone was doing a good job for Caylee.Dr.G usually talks to the next of kin after she completes her reports[on the show,at least]. I wonder if she ever talked to the A's? I would bet she at least attempted to.It would depend on the reception from their end.

 

[MissJames]

Hopfully he retired

After the debacle at the Phil Spector trial the talking heads suggested his career as an expert witness was probably over.He would be exposed for having a judge rule that he withheld evidence in a case.
I could see JB still trying it,but not AL.She's too savvy for that.Not a good idea to use Dr. Baden or Dr. Kobilinski ,either.SA would have a field day with them.Their choices have narrowed.

 

[countzero]

Thanks for putting my thoughts into words...I saw the phrase guardian of Caylee's remains...and I was like..

Me thinks the Man Upstairs had something to say about that one.

It is HE who is Caylee's guardian now and forever.

The A clan was never given that title from the day Caylee came into this world. Nor was it earned because it wasn't part of their vocabulary or thoughts or intertwined into daily living.

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

In case it hasn't been mentioned already the case details at OC Clerk says:

6/12/2009 A ORDER ON GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY'S MOTION TO RESTRICT DISCLOSURE COURT HEREBY ENTERS A TEMPORARY STAY OF THE AUTOPSY FINDINGS AND REPORTS SCHEDULED TO BE RELEASED ON JUNE 12, 2009. THE STAY WILL REMAIN INTACT UNTIL FURTHER DIRECTION FROM THE COURT

Also an attorney filed an appearance on behalf of TL and the motion to appear pro hac vice was granted, assuming it is for A Lyon.

I called the clerk's office today, spent nearly 10 minutes on hold long distance only to be told, "I think" over and over again with most of the words not easily understood because of a heavy accent. I didn't bother to try and have her repeat everything because of the "I think" prefix attached to each sentence. Her answer to one of my questions trying to get more precise answers was I would have to come into such and such office. I told her I am not in Florida, could she please connect me to that extension and she said she couldn't I could fax something (didn't understand the rest). There was definately a communication barrier in the way with a lack of clear knowledge of the answers to the questions I was asking. If anyone local cares to try and get the answers as to what the defense pays, where that is posted, in this account or elsewhere, feel free. I think the person I spoke to said "I think the defense has a special account where his payments are shown." If there is a special account I would think this is it, but who knows. Anyway, I did some more looking on line to see if I could find an email. I sent my questions to ContactCirCrimDiv and will see if I get the answers. I asked some of these same questions of one of the local media persons early last week but never got a response.

 

[Mama-cita]

Here's the link to the Forensics Reports
http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/1024/17794795.pdf

"Hair exhibits...decomposition at the proximal root end." They did not get more specific than that, but according to a 1999 article published in the Journal of Forensic science there are four apparent changes hair from a dead scalp that hair can undergo when the hair is removed from a dead scalp. Only ONE of those is the so-called "death band." In fact the abstract of the article cites that in 22 cases reviewed, the "death band" was NOT the most common characteristic exhibited anyway. So death band versus NO death band does not say a whole lot to me, the bottom line is that these putrid changes of the proximal root end of the hair CAN NOT happen unless the hair is removed from someone post-mortem. Period. End of story. Exclamation point. In fact, the abstract even states that these changes could not be brought about by simply removing a hair from a live scalp and exposing it to outside elements. That hair and the changes apparent at the proximal root (which is the gold standard in forensic testing) PROVES that the hair came from a deceased person...Caylee. Death band means nothing, if apparent decomposition was noted at the proximal root, the hair was from a dead person. Nothing else can cause those changes.

ETA: Here is the link to the abstract of the article from the Journal of Forensic Science. I am going to try to find the whole article.
http://www.astm.org/DIGITAL_LIBRARY/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS14906J.htm

 

[Mama-cita]

No link, so I cannot see where they say there is root banding. It does not say that in the excerpt you have posted, but I need the FBI report anyway. It would have to be in there wouldn't it? (please add a link as soon as you can thanks
The FBI reports say there are signs of decomp, but I can't fnd where it says that decomp is in the form of death bands as opposed to a rough cuticle or a curling cuticle or other events that happen as the body decomposes and the bonds are broken.

Just to be clear, I am looking specificaly for the FBI report saying there are death bands on the hair, because that is the source used to back this statement here in the forum and I just want to make sure that is indeed acurate. I am not doubting it, I just have never seen it and I would like to read it in it's entirety.

thank you Brini, I'll be back later.

They do not specifically say root banding, and IMO they do not need to as there are several different putrid changes hair can undergo at the proximal root end, post mortem. I cited an article in an earlier post which even indicated that "root banding" is not even the most common decompositional characteristic anyway. So, to your statement that the decomposition could be a result of a rough cuticle, curling cuticle etc, IMO, no, the science is very clear. The hair will undergo very specific putrid changes at the proximal root at death. And similar results CAN NOT be manufactured, i.e. by plucking hair from a live person and exposing it to the elements, etc. I think death band versus no death band is like tomato, to-mah-to, the decomposing changes at the proximal root end of the hair prove the hair came from a deceased person.

 

[JBean]

They do not specifically say root banding, and IMO they do not need to as there are several different putrid changes hair can undergo at the proximal root end, post mortem. I cited an article in an earlier post which even indicated that "root banding" is not even the most common decompositional characteristic anyway. So, to your statement that the decomposition could be a result of a rough cuticle, curling cuticle etc, IMO, no, the science is very clear. The hair will undergo very specific putrid changes at the proximal root at death. And similar results CAN NOT be manufactured, i.e. by plucking hair from a live person and exposing it to the elements, etc. I think death band versus no death band is like tomato, to-mah-to, the decomposing changes at the proximal root end of the hair prove the hair came from a deceased person.

Thanks Mamacita, you are helping to make my point. As I said, I have never doubted that the hair showed signs of decomp. nor have I doubted that they came from a deceased Caylee. My question and all I wanted to know if it was another sign of decomposition aside from the banding. The only information I have ever been after is whether or not there was documented post mortem root banding. I see that there wasn't which is consistent with what I thought and I appreciate you confirming it as well.
Posters continually site the FBI report as the backup source for the documented root banding and I have never been able to find it.
Also, i didn't imply that that decomposition was a result of curling or rough cuticle, but rather the question was did the hair show rough or curling cuticle due to decomposition.I agree, science is very clear, which is why I am asking to make sure we report it clearly. Manufactured results? not even sure what you mean by that.
thanks.

 

[Brini]

After the debacle at the Phil Spector trial the talking heads suggested his career as an expert witness was probably over.He would be exposed for having a judge rule that he withheld evidence in a case.
I could see JB still trying it,but not AL.She's too savvy for that.Not a good idea to use Dr. Baden or Dr. Kobilinski ,either.SA would have a field day with them.Their choices have narrowed.

The State could merely show a few vid clips of those two doing analytical and verbal u-turns, donuts, and even wheelies. To say nothing of eating large salads made of their own previous opinions.

 

[Brini]

Something that Brad C. said has made me wonder what has happened to her ashes. He said "George and Cindy were made the Guardians of Caylee's remains." Well I would think that would mean that they made the decisions to have her creamated, to have a public memorial service, and maybe a private service (?) and to have to locket made along with bracelets for George and Lee with some ashes in them...which is a very popular thing to do now days. But after everything was over and they had a private service and the rest of the ashes were put where ever they planned to put them...that would be the end of the Guardianship. They would no longer have the remains.

I hope little Caylee has a headstone somewhere and that her ashes are buried there. I don't blame the Anthonys if they have kept the location a secret. I certainly hope that her ashes aren't still at the funeral home but I doubt that they are. They may be at the Anthonys home though and that way they would still have guardianship of them. I hope they loved Caylee enough to give her a buriel and tombstone and a place for the rest of the family to go if they chose to. I don't know though...Caylee seems to have been forgotten and Casey is the top dog now.

Yeah, KC is the "CEO." :-(

 

[kageykaren]

Releasing the autopsy report for me means the right side of the courtroom can begin too speak out for Caylee. This would be the beginning but the A;s silenced the voice of Caylee once again. It isn't necesaary on todays date to rehash all the ways the A's have tried to not make Caylee's death a vicious murder. For the A's to assume that an abducter is taking care of Caylee because she is so sweet and cute has been proven to not be true as we have seen what has happened to other pretty cute sweet girls. I hope Judge Stricland rules in favor of Caylee so all the false information being put out by the A's and defense will stop so fact can prevail. Fact would be Caylee laid in her little area long enough to to have life growing out of her. Kind of full circle in a spiritual way. KC may have murdered her but didn't stop the circle of life. I promise not to break out in song from the Lion King.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Thanks Mamacita, you are helping to make my point. As I said, I have never doubted that the hair showed signs of decomp. nor have I doubted that they came from a deceased Caylee. My question and all I wanted to know if it was another sign of decomposition aside from the banding. The only information I have ever been after is whether or not there was documented post mortem root banding. I see that there wasn't which is consistent with what I thought and I appreciate you confirming it as well.
Posters continually site the FBI report as the backup source for the documented root banding and I have never been able to find it.
Also, i didn't imply that that decomposition was a result of curling or rough cuticle, but rather the question was did the hair show rough or curling cuticle due to decomposition.I agree, science is very clear, which is why I am asking to make sure we report it clearly. Manufactured results? not even sure what you mean by that.
thanks..

JBean - I really appreciate your dogged pursuit of the "death band" mythology. Exact language is important - especially in a criminal case where the DP is on the table. If the FBI report said (as Mamacita quoted): "Hair exhibits...decomposition at the proximal root end." then that is what commentators should say. No one should interpret the FBI findings and label it a "death band". I realize that "death band" sounds more dramatic on TV and is perhaps easier for a casual listener to grasp but once that specificity as to which type of "decomposition at the proximal root end" is present on the hair enters into the popular language of this case it can cause a big problem down the line in prosecuting.

Imagine the prosecution questioning the expert - what did you find?
Expert - I found that the hair exhibits decomposition at the proximal root end.
Prosecution - Specifically what type of decomp?
Expert answers with one of the other of the four types.

Defense on cross asserts that the decomp had been previously stated to be a "death band type" and makes a huge deal out of this "discrepancy".

Prosecution answers by asserting the truth - that the FBI has never specified the type of decomp until just now when the expert answered that question at trial.

Should be case closed but those jurors have heard over and over and over again that the decomp was a "death band". Add up enough of these situations and jurors may start to think the experts are contradicting themselves, they've made mistakes, the prosecution is covering up something etc - all because of bad information and imprecise language.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Wow, this is hitting very close to home for me.
The A's said Caylee's remains would be kept private out of fear that someone would try to steal them. In this crazy world today I think they got it right this time.
Also ,my son was cremated and four lockets were made up for myself and his 3 sisters.We wear them a lot,but not all the time.His ashes sit on a shelf ,along with a Teddy Bear he gave me,not long before he died,so I'm not finding anything strange yet,Carolina Moon LOL.My oldest son would like to spread the ashes somewhere,but I can't let go yet.
There is an autopsy report,because my child committed suicide,but I could never bring myself to read it.
We had a wonderful ,caring coroner very similar to Dr.G.She treated us with compassion ,while at the same time asking some tough questions.She did her job well.The same with LE.
I think if the A's had been in a different frame of mind they would have found that same compassion,while feeling assured everyone was doing a good job for Caylee.Dr.G usually talks to the next of kin after she completes her reports[on the show,at least]. I wonder if she ever talked to the A's? I would bet she at least attempted to.It would depend on the reception from their end.

I'm sorry that you lost your son. As far as spreading his ashes...we just have to do things in our own time and everyone is different. I wish I had a locket with some of my daughter's ashes. My whole preception of death changed after my daughter was murdered. I'm not afraid of it anymore. I have never even thought of the autopsy report on my daughter until this came up here. I wouldn't want to read it though. Just reading the death cert was hard enough.

I would understand the A's having Caylee's ashes in a container in their home too. As much as I don't like George now I wonder if he could emotionally stand to have Caylee's ashes in the home?

 

[JBean]

JBean - I really appreciate your dogged pursuit of the "death band" mythology. Exact language is important - especially in a criminal case where the DP is on the table. If the FBI report said (as Mamacita quoted): "Hair exhibits...decomposition at the proximal root end." then that is what commentators should say. No one should interpret the FBI findings and label it a "death band". I realize that "death band" sounds more dramatic on TV and is perhaps easier for a casual listener to grasp but once that specificity as to which type of "decomposition at the proximal root end" is present on the hair enters into the popular language of this case it can cause a big problem down the line in prosecuting.

Imagine the prosecution questioning the expert - what did you find?
Expert - I found that the hair exhibits decomposition at the proximal root end.
Prosecution - Specifically what type of decomp?
Expert answers with one of the other of the four types.

Defense on cross asserts that the decomp had been previously stated to be a "death band type" and makes a huge deal out of this "discrepancy".

Prosecution answers by asserting the truth - that the FBI has never specified the type of decomp until just now when the expert answered that question at trial.

Should be case closed but those jurors have heard over and over and over again that the decomp was a "death band". Add up enough of these situations and jurors may start to think the experts are contradicting themselves, they've made mistakes, the prosecution is covering up something etc - all because of bad information and imprecise language.

Thank you for understanding what my aim was.

You raise excellent points and I think you are right on the money.

 

[Tiki]

You can only hide under the cloak of "grieving grandparents" for so long. The majority of the public are on to their charade(s). Give it up.:hand:

Looks like they're at it again!

Today's news thread says they're going to be on CBS Early show tomorrow.

I would think they'd be in anguish for real - I wouldn't be able to get out of bed.

Wonder if BC will be with them...

I won't get up to watch, but what in the world will they say on the day LE thinks Caylee was killed?!?

.

 

[Brini]

Looks like they're at it again!

Today's news thread says they're going to be on CBS Early show tomorrow.

I would think they'd be in anguish for real - I wouldn't be able to get out of bed.

Wonder if BC will be with them...

I won't get up to watch, but what in the world will they say on the day LE thinks Caylee was killed?!?

.

KC wouldn't do that.

KC is a misunderstood angel.

We are entitled to attention, money, and sympathy.

We know who diddit, but we cannot say for mysterious reasons which we cannot disclose.

KC is actually a heroine, who has sacrificed her freedom to protect her family.

We cannot say from whom, for mysterious reasons which we cannot disclose.

JG diddit while disguise in drag as a half-Puerto Rican, half-black "10."

So clever was this disguise, that he was even able to disguise his height and weight.

But, if JG DIDN'T do it, the BHS diddit.

That's what they will say. ;-)

 

[countzero]

And CBS wonders why their ratings are down in the toilet. :waitasec: Keep having the A clan and doing fluff reporting and the handle will be totally pushed down.

A clan will be focusing (not sure how they will do this either) on the "anguish" the state is placing upon them. Grab the tissue box folks. Either to wipe the tears from sorrow or from hysterical laughter.

Oh, and another one here who won't be watching it either.

 

[panthera]

Looks like they're at it again!

Today's news thread says they're going to be on CBS Early show tomorrow.

I would think they'd be in anguish for real - I wouldn't be able to get out of bed.

Wonder if BC will be with them...

I won't get up to watch, but what in the world will they say on the day LE thinks Caylee was killed?!?

.

Well after all, it seems they don't believe Caylee was murdered a year ago tomorrow so it's just another day to them. MOO

 

[Tiki]

Well after all, it seems they don't believe Caylee was murdered a year ago tomorrow so it's just another day to them. MOO

Oh - you're right.
Tomorrow is one year since GA saw Caylee brfore she went "missing".

.

 

[panthera]

Oh - you're right.
Tomorrow is one year since GA saw Caylee brfore she went "missing".

.

Exactly! And don't forget while he was watching his favorite show on the Food Channel and Casey and Caylee went out the door just like any normal day. :liar: MOO Maybe they'll be on the Morning Show to discuss why the autopsy report needs to remain sealed. :waitasec:

 

[countzero]

Well after all, it seems they don't believe Caylee was murdered a year ago tomorrow so it's just another day to them. MOO

Oh - you're right.
Tomorrow is one year since GA saw Caylee brfore she went "missing".

.

I was just about to send a similar post. Then I thought afterwards, I don't want a two week timeout because of the A clan and post my real inner feelings of them on this date.

I betcha CBS won't ask in depth details about any memorial or if the A clan has plans for remembering this date. CA will just go about whining about how KC was deprived her rights and her innocence. Ugh .............
more crap of how there isn't any evidence, yada-yada-yada.

I am, however, interested in the spin BC will put on his last motion about the autopsy and thankfully I can read about it vs. watching them on video.

I can wait for Patty to post it.