Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[OpenMind4U]

A quick Google of this turned up info that tabloids had made this comment, and it was mentioned by Barbara Walters during an interview with the Ramseys. As far as I can tell, it is not a statement made by JR. Unless Sunnie does have a specific reference. In all fairness, we must try to keep the rumors separated from the facts, right OM?

Absolutely agree! (you see, we always agree on important staff!!!)...:seeya:

 

[SyraKelly]

Does anyone remember an old forum dedicated specifically to this case and a group called STILLWATER? It consisted of a group of people, many in the medical community, that were located in several different countries. They were akin to Super Sleuths. They put together their theory of what happened to JonBenet and it was spellbinding. I can't find it anywhere. It was quite extensive and had input from many different angles. I believe the entire theory was published on that website in 1997 or 1998? If anyone has access to that, and if it hasn't already been discussed here, could you post it? I think it would encourage a whole new dialogue.

Thanks for this tip-I read the whole site-what was still available.I even ordered the book,Quite Samantha Foster!

 

[OpenMind4U]

Thanks for this tip-I read the whole site-what was still available.I even ordered the book,Quite Samantha Foster!

I did read as well. Very impressive analysis! And I ordered the book as well (from Amazon). The correct name is 'Quiet Samantha Foster!'.

'Same mind think alike', isn't?:seeya:

 

[midwest mama]

I did read as well. Very impressive analysis! And I ordered the book as well (from Amazon). The correct name is 'Quiet Samantha Foster!'.

'Same mind think alike', isn't?:seeya:

My book is on the way from Amazon too! I got a $.20 cent copy plus the shipping - used are good for me 'cause I like to make notes in them and mark them up.

We'll probably have something else interesting to cuss and discuss when we're all done with the book, right? :razz:

 

[OpenMind4U]

My book is on the way from Amazon too! I got a $.20 cent copy plus the shipping - used are good for me 'cause I like to make notes in them and mark them up.

We'll probably have something else interesting to cuss and discuss when we're all done with the book, right? :razz:

WOW!!!! We created our own reading club here!!! I'm looking forward to discuss (maybe under separate thread?)...From what I read so far on 'STILLWATER' site impressed me alot! Some entries are so good I was compose myself from copy all of them here...especially from one lady who observed the behavior of the animal in surviving mode (mother and her baby/cub). I was speachless reading it!...looks like human's behavior didn't moved far away from the primitive animal instinct, isn't???

 

[midwest mama]

Does anyone remember an old forum dedicated specifically to this case and a group called STILLWATER? It consisted of a group of people, many in the medical community, that were located in several different countries. They were akin to Super Sleuths. They put together their theory of what happened to JonBenet and it was spellbinding. I can't find it anywhere. It was quite extensive and had input from many different angles. I believe the entire theory was published on that website in 1997 or 1998? If anyone has access to that, and if it hasn't already been discussed here, could you post it? I think it would encourage a whole new dialogue.

:bump:

I started a new Blog today at WS titled: Quiet Samantha Foster = Ramsey Case?

OpenMind4U and I are doing a 2 chapter study a day through PM on how the book characters and actions might equal clues in the Ramsey case that resulted in the writing of the book after the Stillwater group put their findings together. My hope is that we'll add a blog post with our findings on the 'clues' as we go along.

If you have read, are reading, or will want to read "Quiet Samantha Foster" and join in on the Blog - PLEASE DO!!

It is a tragedy that a young girl gave up her life before it's time, and her killer was not/has not been brought to justice! This type of crime only serves to say to others that it is OK to look another direction for your own self-preservation, and that the public who desire to have a just and humane world must accept that we cannot.

Until this murder gets solved, we in the public either have to be content being force fed the morals of our society, or be willing to keep persevering for the cause of justice by doing what we can to keep a crime like this in the public awareness, even if we never see a final resolve.

Keep reading, keep posting, talk to your friends, stay ACTIVE! Someone, somewhere knows the truth! We need to keep trying to find it!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If anyone is interested, here is an archived version of the Ramseys' website that has all the statements their lawyers and PR people made to the media from January-September 1997:

http://web.archive.org/web/19981205191754/http://www.ramseyfamily.com/archive/archives.htm

Here's the transcript of the R's May 1st PC: http://web.archive.org/web/19990225150936/http://www.denverpost.com/news/jon73.htm

Here are 70 press releases sent out by Boulder: http://web.archive.org/web/20010818101825/http://bcn.boulder.co.us/boulder/pressrelease/indexr.html

 

[midwest mama]

This is advice from JR himself, from TOSOS:
"If your tragedy involves the legal system, act quickly to seek good legal counsel. Don't hire a real estate attorney if it's a criminal matter. If you are guilty of a crime, you must have a lawyer to make sure you are treated fairly. If you are innocent, you must have a great lawyer to make sure you are not wrongly convicted. To ensure that the system is just, you must be able to afford to defend your, if necessary. You can be sure you are treated justly, but it is very expensive. Those who can't afford to defend themselves properly are in much more danger of being wrongly convicted if the system is in the hands of biased individuals."

Wow. My take on this paragraph: 1) Notice he refers to hiring an atty if you are guilty, before he considers having one for innocence. 2) He states that the way to ensure a just system is to have money for your defense. What? In other words, anyone who chooses to use a public defender can count on an unjust system working throughout their case? Guess we might as well scrap our entire public defense system, huh? 3) It will be very expensive to be sure you are treated justly, probably because of having to line so many pockets. 4) If you don't have enough money, and the "cops" are sure you are guilty, you probably will end up being wrongly convicted.

Now, to show you how much JR disliked having to give up his money for his legal protection, here's what he says:
"Unfortunately, many victims of violent crime end up financially devasted because of legal expenses, poor business decisions, disrupted careers, carelessness with money and divorce. I should have begun downsizing and protecting my savings at a much more aggressive rate than I did. I just assumed things would get back to normal quickly. Money for legal expenses was going out like water through a fire hose. On and on and on the expenses mounted at a time when I should have been preserving every penny. My expenses were simply out of control." (IMO, being out of control makes JR very disturbed. In one part of his book he says he should have simplified and downsized his life much more quickly than he did, but when the money has to go, it's a big problem. By the way, if you want to take time to verify it, it should be no problem to find references online, that to a narcissist, their "beauty" comes first and foremost, and that can be defined by several characteristics. But once a narcissist feels their "beauty" is eroded, MONEY becomes their "beauty".
Having it supplies the bolster that beauty no longer does.)

The first above bolded and underlined statement by me: IMO, this is the epitome of a narcissistic mind in management of a catastrophic situation which is of insignificant importance to him. The gall.

The second above bolded and underlined statement by me: Wasn't there an interview or another time early in the investigation as the R's were making waves about finding JB's killer, that they would spend everything they had if it would find her killer - or something to that effect?

 

[Nom de plume]

This is advice from JR himself, from TOSOS:
"If your tragedy involves the legal system, act quickly to seek good legal counsel. Don't hire a real estate attorney if it's a criminal matter. If you are guilty of a crime, you must have a lawyer to make sure you are treated fairly. If you are innocent, you must have a great lawyer to make sure you are not wrongly convicted. To ensure that the system is just, you must be able to afford to defend your, if necessary. You can be sure you are treated justly, but it is very expensive. Those who can't afford to defend themselves properly are in much more danger of being wrongly convicted if the system is in the hands of biased individuals."

Wow. My take on this paragraph: 1) Notice he refers to hiring an atty if you are guilty, before he considers having one for innocence. 2) He states that the way to ensure a just system is to have money for your defense. What? In other words, anyone who chooses to use a public defender can count on an unjust system working throughout their case? Guess we might as well scrap our entire public defense system, huh? 3) It will be very expensive to be sure you are treated justly, probably because of having to line so many pockets. 4) If you don't have enough money, and the "cops" are sure you are guilty, you probably will end up being wrongly convicted.

Now, to show you how much JR disliked having to give up his money for his legal protection, here's what he says:
"Unfortunately, many victims of violent crime end up financially devasted because of legal expenses, poor business decisions, disrupted careers, carelessness with money and divorce. I should have begun downsizing and protecting my savings at a much more aggressive rate than I did. I just assumed things would get back to normal quickly. Money for legal expenses was going out like water through a fire hose. On and on and on the expenses mounted at a time when I should have been preserving every penny. My expenses were simply out of control." (IMO, being out of control makes JR very disturbed. In one part of his book he says he should have simplified and downsized his life much more quickly than he did, but when the money has to go, it's a big problem. By the way, if you want to take time to verify it, it should be no problem to find references online, that to a narcissist, their "beauty" comes first and foremost, and that can be defined by several characteristics. But once a narcissist feels their "beauty" is eroded, MONEY becomes their "beauty".
Having it supplies the bolster that beauty no longer does.)

The first above bolded and underlined statement by me: IMO, this is the epitome of a narcissistic mind in management of a catastrophic situation which is of insignificant importance to him. The gall.

The second above bolded and underlined statement by me: Wasn't there an interview or another time early in the investigation as the R's were making waves about finding JB's killer, that they would spend everything they had if it would find her killer - or something to that effect?

:clap: :clap: Excellent post MM! You nailed it!

 

[madeleine]

"If your tragedy involves the legal system, act quickly to seek good legal counsel. Don't hire a real estate attorney if it's a criminal matter. If you are guilty of a crime, you must have a lawyer to make sure you are treated fairly. If you are innocent, you must have a great lawyer to make sure you are not wrongly convicted. To ensure that the system is just, you must be able to afford to defend your, if necessary. You can be sure you are treated justly, but it is very expensive. Those who can't afford to defend themselves properly are in much more danger of being wrongly convicted if the system is in the hands of biased individuals."

sounds more like paranoia to me...
wouldn't it be more easy to stay out of trouble?what is this ,a "how to get away with it" manual...be sure to have a fat bank account if you wanna commit murder?

 

[Venom]

My troll meter just went up.

 

[Chelly]

My troll meter just went up.

Thanks mods for removing the offender.:seeya:

 

[DeeDee249]

Thanks mods for removing the offender.:seeya:

Did I miss something? What happened? I didn't see any problem posts, so they must have been removed. This is usually a very well-mannered group here. Our opinions differ, but we respect that. It'd be a boring place if we all had the same theory. And it also means that at least some of us must have the right one!

 

[Chelly]

Did I miss something? What happened? I didn't see any problem posts, so they must have been removed. This is usually a very well-mannered group here. Our opinions differ, but we respect that. It'd be a boring place if we all had the same theory. And it also means that at least some of us must have the right one!

A troll. Short-timer.....in and out.

 

[thefragile7393]

A troll. Short-timer.....in and out.

Best kind to deal with

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[887sMtreme]

The reward offered by the Ramseys for information leading to the arrest of JBR's murderer was paltry compared with what they spent keeping up appearances. Very odd.

 

[887sMtreme]

Just ordered a copy from Amazon. Really looking forward to reading it. I've been looking over the Stillwater site's entries saved by Wayback and wonder if anyone has a more complete record. I was especially taken by the idea that JR might have mentioned $118,000 in the ransom note specifically to deflect suspicion down the Access Graphics rabbit hole. Lots more tantalizing references. What a fascinating discovery. (Well, new to me, anyway.)

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The reward offered by the Ramseys for information leading to the arrest of JBR's murderer was paltry compared with what they spent keeping up appearances. Very odd.

Didn't they offer $1,000,000? I don't think that is paltry, although they definitely had no intention of ever paying it out. IDK, I guess you could make an argument either way about it.

 

[andreww]

This damn flashlight argument again.

First, show me one credible source that says the batteries and flashlight were wiped?

Second, because no identifiable prints were found, doesn't mean it was wiped

Third, It has a knurled grip surface, I wouldn't expect prints on the handle.

Fourth and final, If it was wiped it was probably because it was used as the murder weapon. You'd want to take that thing right apart and wash every piece separately to ensure no blood, hair or skin was in any of the crevaces.

 

[887sMtreme]

It may have gone up over time, but it was originally just $100,000.