Are WE to blame for being suspicious?

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I am always suspicious when I hear that an infant is missing, there are no obvious signs of a break-in, and the parents change their story, lawyer up and start making excuse after excuse why they don't need to talk with the people who are trying to find their baby. Sorry. I know it's a character flaw and I shouldn't jump into judgmental conclusions without knowing all the facts of the case.
 
No I wouldn't, I doubt if anyone would make a conscious decision to endanger their children but I have to ask ask how many would admit to hiring a babysitter, going on a night out, coming home after having a few drinks and sending the babysitter home ..... or has everyone else always been so perfectly far-sighted as to always have at least one adult always there as the 'designated in loco parentis' ?

I dunno, mea culpa, today I have two healthy, well-adjusted, happy, grown sons I probably don't deserve to have because, hand on heart, thinking back and going off today's standards I must have been one horribly inadequate parent. I didn't always think through EVERY possible scenario of what could go wrong if I did 'X' and 'Y' happened and then what if 'W'? I wish I had had ALL potential threats to my children's safety neatly mapped out on some flowchart to pin on my fridge and then they and I wouldn't have to go through any of the near misses and, yes, actual accidents that happened and scared the carp outta me. Those incidents were salutary warnings in the forefront of my mind ever after but only after they happened. There but for the grace of God and all that.

Great post, thanks button wasn't enough! :clap:
 
I am always suspicious when I hear that an infant is missing, there are no obvious signs of a break-in, and the parents change their story, lawyer up and start making excuse after excuse why they don't need to talk with the people who are trying to find their baby. Sorry. I know it's a character flaw and I shouldn't jump into judgmental conclusions without knowing all the facts of the case.



Maybe "jumping into judgemental conclusions" would help find more "missing" children. JMO

So many missing children, and no one is responsible, everyone is innocent. :furious:
 
I'm with the consensus (I think?) on this where I think there is nothing wrong with 'suspicion' based on all the reasons laid out in this thread. I think unless the parent/spouse has an airtight alibi then there is always reason for suspicion. What's funny about even that is the boyfriend supposedly has an airtight alibi and some people still think he's involved.

I have an issue when people lay guilt. That's a totally separate thing. At this stage of the investigation, with what little evidence there is, I don't know how one can conclude that the woman is guilty of murdering her baby. But yet that hasn't stopped people from devising crazy, off the wall theories. That hasn't stopped people from basically character assassinating DB when they know very little of her. Everyone is quick to criticize and throw out the word neglect but I guarantee if everyone's parenting skills were on display for everyone to see, I'm pretty sure there would be something we would find fault with.

IMO, suspicion is one thing, having her thrown in jail with the key thrown away is another.
 
Maybe "jumping into judgemental conclusions" would help find more "missing" children. JMO

So many missing children, and no one is responsible, everyone is innocent. :furious:

Yes, actually, everyone IS innocent, until convicted. The state (which includes LE) cannot be allowed to treat people as guilty until proven otherwise.

What do you propose? That LE be given the ability to treat presumed victims as suspects right from the get go, in all missing children's cases? And if missing children's cases, why not murders? How about thefts? What should they be allowed to do? Lock up parents until they confess, whether out of guilt or desperation?

I'm genuinely curious here. I understand frustration at the fact that Lisa is no closer to being found, but I find it disturbing that so many are dismissive of everyone's (not just Irwin/Bradley's) legal rights. :confused:
 
Maybe someone can direct me to a post in which JI's and DB's legal rights are dismissed.
 
I'm with the consensus (I think?) on this where I think there is nothing wrong with 'suspicion' based on all the reasons laid out in this thread. I think unless the parent/spouse has an airtight alibi then there is always reason for suspicion. What's funny about even that is the boyfriend supposedly has an airtight alibi and some people still think he's involved.

I have an issue when people lay guilt. That's a totally separate thing. At this stage of the investigation, with what little evidence there is, I don't know how one can conclude that the woman is guilty of murdering her baby. But yet that hasn't stopped people from devising crazy, off the wall theories. That hasn't stopped people from basically character assassinating DB when they know very little of her. Everyone is quick to criticize and throw out the word neglect but I guarantee if everyone's parenting skills were on display for everyone to see, I'm pretty sure there would be something we would find fault with.

IMO, suspicion is one thing, having her thrown in jail with the key thrown away is another.



Well said! Excellent post!...You know I actually saw someone here have a signature that said something like "Proud to have never been on the fence"

I mean..what the hell???...Proud?...to have immediatley jumped to guilty throw away the Key!...Proud?,,,to have thought from DAY ONE!?! in this case that this is murder? A little thing like evidence, motive?..Nah..I'll just concuct a theory and that IS what happened
Honestly some people baffle and sadden me at the same time.:waitasec:


Edit to say...most people here seem to have suspicions or belive some guilt BUT I think most still have an open mind even if they lean towards the parents being responsible..only a few posters have completely and utterely made up their mind.
 
Not if the facts point you in the direction of your suspicions, no.

But I do have issues (not just in this case ,but in MANY cases), with people who like to play psychologist and diagnose people, when they have never even met the person, nor had any formal training in the field of psychology or psychiatry. When I hear the words, "She's clearly a sociopath" or " Aha! Post natal psychosis!" , first I cringe, and then I laugh until I can't catch my breath. And then I cringe again.

Just something that bugs me personally. I don't even like it when professionals on TV try to diagnose people they have never spoken with in a professional capacity.

ITA and thank you for your thoughtful comments. While she's no longer in the field (career burnout), one of my sisters was a psychologist who dealt mainly with mentally ill and mentally handicapped adults. She and I often discuss these high-profile cases, and not once has my sister ever used terms like psychopath, sociopath, narcissist, or borderline when speaking of accused individuals, but she's aware that armchair shrinks do this all the time without knowing the case history (if there is one) of these people. These "diagnoses" are bandied about all too frequently in the media without these pseudo-professionals having direct knowledge of the mental health issues that may or may not plague these individuals. jmo
 
No I wouldn't, I doubt if anyone here would make a conscious decision to endanger their children but I have to ask ask how many would admit to hiring a babysitter, going on a night out, coming home after having a few drinks and sending the babysitter home ..... or has everyone else always been so perfectly far-sighted as to always have at least one adult always there as the 'designated in loco parentis' ?

I dunno, mea culpa, today I have two healthy, well-adjusted, happy, grown sons I probably don't deserve to have because, hand on heart, thinking back and going off today's standards I must have been one horribly inadequate parent. I didn't always think through EVERY possible scenario of what could go wrong if I did 'X' and 'Y' happened and then what if 'W'? I wish I had had ALL potential threats to my children's safety neatly mapped out on some flowchart to pin on my fridge and then they and I wouldn't have to go through any of the near misses and, yes, actual accidents that happened and scared the carp outta me. Those incidents were salutary warnings in the forefront of my mind ever after but only after they happened. There but for the grace of God and all that.

I think the issue is being "blackout" drunk v/s having a "few" drinks (few to me means more than two but less than four) and coming home hours later to release the babysitter of her duties. I do not think that any responsible parent takes medication and drinks the amount of alcohol alleged and then is the sole caregiver for three children and one who is sick. Just my own opinion...but when I went out with the girls when my kids were young, hub stayed home. When we went out together, the grandparents watched the kids. Overnight stays happened when there was more party than usual. Just saying. After 2 1/2 glasses of wine, I would not take sole responsibility for caring for minors...because i know that my judgement would be impaired. Plus, I could not drive legally for 4-6 hours after that...so in case of emergency I would need a driver.
 
Are we to blame for having suspicions? Yeah, probably. We all tend to see things in the light that we want to see them in. We all look for signs of both the parents being out of line, we look at strangers, and we look at statistics. And the stats tell us that we have a good reason to be suspicious. Could Lisa be one of those rare cases where a child really is snatched by a stranger? Sure. Is it much more likely that the person that knows where she is lives in the house she lived in? Yes. Is it even more likely that that person is one of her parents? Yes. Do I take any of the blame for my well founded and statistically based opinions, that are further supported by changing timelines, uncooperative parents, and LEO's that are seemingly suspicious of the same people for the same reasons? No, I don't. I won't.
 
Maybe someone can direct me to a post in which JI's and DB's legal rights are dismissed.

Try searching the phrase "lawyered up" on this forum, and take a look at the dismissive attitude in many of the posts. Or search "dense attorney" and see what you get.

I'd call those reactions dismissive of people's legal rights.
 
I wonder how many of us would be "whistle blowers" if we suspected child neglect or abuse in our neighborhoods or communities? I don't think I could tattle on someone without knowing the circumstances of their daily lives or understanding the reason for something that I might witness even if it bothered me. By her own admission, Deborah feels entitled to her "adult" time that includes drinking, perhaps to excess, a couple of times weekly. If she's sitting outdoors on the front stoop, there must be neighbors or passersby that have seen her in an inebriated state on occasion. If any of these neighbors were approached by LE, would they have offered information about DB's drinking? I doubt that I could even if I thought that she might be putting her children in danger.

Several years ago, some former neighbors (two doors down on our side of the street) were well-known for big parties in their home or outdoors on their backyard patio. These neighbors had one child who was pre-school age at the time, but there was no way for us to know whether he was at home during one of their late-night bashes. The drinking and noise went on into the wee hours keeping DH and I awake and forcing us to close our bedroom window. We kept saying to one another, "If this doesn't stop soon, we should call the police", but we didn't. Alas! Suddenly, the noise ceased. I went to the front of the house and noticed a police car parked across the street from their house. Cars soon began leaving the neighborhood. I guess other neighbors were as fed up with the noisy party as we were and did something about it.

If you have suspicions about behaviors of parents that might place their children in harms way, would you be able to blow the whistle on them? Do we have a moral responsibility to report adult behaviors if we think children might be in danger? If we choose to say nothing, are we acting as enablers for possible abuse or neglect of little ones? Guess I'll be thinking about this while I'm running errands today. Later...
 
I wonder how many of us would be "whistle blowers" if we suspected child neglect or abuse in our neighborhoods or communities? I don't think I could tattle on someone without knowing the circumstances of their daily lives or understanding the reason for something that I might witness even if it bothered me. By her own admission, Deborah feels entitled to her "adult" time that includes drinking, perhaps to excess, a couple of times weekly. If she's sitting outdoors on the front stoop, there must be neighbors or passersby that have seen her in an inebriated state on occasion. If any of these neighbors were approached by LE, would they have offered information about DB's drinking? I doubt that I could even if I thought that she might be putting her children in danger.

Several years ago, some former neighbors (two doors down on our side of the street) were well-known for big parties in their home or outdoors on their backyard patio. These neighbors had one child who was pre-school age at the time, but there was no way for us to know whether he was at home during one of their late-night bashes. The drinking and noise went on into the wee hours keeping DH and I awake and forcing us to close our bedroom window. We kept saying to one another, "If this doesn't stop soon, we should call the police", but we didn't. Alas! Suddenly, the noise ceased. I went to the front of the house and noticed a police car parked across the street from their house. Cars soon began leaving the neighborhood. I guess other neighbors were as fed up with the noisy party as we were and did something about it.

If you have suspicions about behaviors of parents that might place their children in harms way, would you be able to blow the whistle on them? Do we have a moral responsibility to report adult behaviors if we think children might be in danger? If we choose to say nothing, are we acting as enablers for possible abuse or neglect of little ones? Guess I'll be thinking about this while I'm running errands today. Later...

I think a majority of people would not report anything, even if they saw something obvious, like a parent drinking on the front stoop. Most of us were brought up with the notion to 'mind your business'. We were taught that because you never know what the true situation and circumstances are. If you see a mother slapping the behind of a child (which hardly happens anymore), are you going to approach them? Or are they simply disciplining their child? And who are you to tell someone how to parent their children. Like I said, if everyone's parenting skills were open to the world, anyone could find something to criticize them on.

There is a show on tv that actually highlights this behavior of 'minding your business'. They would set up scenarios where something blatant is happening to see what reaction the public gives. In most of these scenarios, a large percentage of people simply ignore and keep walking, even if it's something that is obvious (for example, a man verbally berating a woman in public).
 
I think a majority of people would not report anything, even if they saw something obvious, like a parent drinking on the front stoop. Most of us were brought up with the notion to 'mind your business'. We were taught that because you never know what the true situation and circumstances are. If you see a mother slapping the behind of a child (which hardly happens anymore), are you going to approach them? Or are they simply disciplining their child? And who are you to tell someone how to parent their children. Like I said, if everyone's parenting skills were open to the world, anyone could find something to criticize them on.

There is a show on tv that actually highlights this behavior of 'minding your business'. They would set up scenarios where something blatant is happening to see what reaction the public gives. In most of these scenarios, a large percentage of people simply ignore and keep walking, even if it's something that is obvious (for example, a man verbally berating a woman in public).

A guy my husband worked with called us in the middle of the night. He said his infant daughter had rolled off the couch onto the floor (carpet on floor) and there was something wrong with her head, something coming out of her ear, he thought it might be her brain. He wanted to know what he should do. My husband asked what do you mean what should you do? Take her to the ER. The guy didn't want to, he was afraid of cps. I got involved at that point, and said take her NOW or I will call CPS. My husband was pissed and said I should mind my business, he knows the guy, he wouldn't do anything to his kid. No CPS got involved that time. The second time, the baby "accidentally" had a rolltop desk fall on her head. That time, they had her taken away from them.
About a year or so later, the guy has moved on and is with a girl that has a child and they have a new one together. They were BOTH abusive to the kids. Gave the older one prescription medication to sleep and keep him out of their hair. He was beaten over interupting video game playing. This time I called CPS. They didn't lose the kids. They did get in trouble for welfare fraud (which they blamed on me). Subsequent to that, she "lost" the older child on 2 occasions for several hours. Once blaming a neighbor for "hiding" the kid so she would get in trouble. She was told by the police that it was her last chance, if he got lost again, he would get taken away. I don't know them anymore, the guy got fired and my husband had no reason to have to be around them afterwards. I am not sorry I called CPS, only that I did not get more involved before the first baby had her second "accident". CPS might not always take them away, but at least the situation is getting some attention.
I can understand people not wanting to get involved. It was an unpleasant experience for me. These people accepted no blame at all, everything was my fault for telling on them. I was amazed at how many people that knew full well what they were doing and thought it was a perfectly acceptable way to treat kids and said they were good parents. I also thank God for the neighbors that saw things for what they were, and made subsequent calls. For awhile I wondered what this world was coming to and how people could cover for the parents rather than help those kids.
 
I wonder how many of us would be "whistle blowers" if we suspected child neglect or abuse in our neighborhoods or communities? I don't think I could tattle on someone without knowing the circumstances of their daily lives or understanding the reason for something that I might witness even if it bothered me. By her own admission, Deborah feels entitled to her "adult" time that includes drinking, perhaps to excess, a couple of times weekly. If she's sitting outdoors on the front stoop, there must be neighbors or passersby that have seen her in an inebriated state on occasion. If any of these neighbors were approached by LE, would they have offered information about DB's drinking? I doubt that I could even if I thought that she might be putting her children in danger.

Several years ago, some former neighbors (two doors down on our side of the street) were well-known for big parties in their home or outdoors on their backyard patio. These neighbors had one child who was pre-school age at the time, but there was no way for us to know whether he was at home during one of their late-night bashes. The drinking and noise went on into the wee hours keeping DH and I awake and forcing us to close our bedroom window. We kept saying to one another, "If this doesn't stop soon, we should call the police", but we didn't. Alas! Suddenly, the noise ceased. I went to the front of the house and noticed a police car parked across the street from their house. Cars soon began leaving the neighborhood. I guess other neighbors were as fed up with the noisy party as we were and did something about it.

If you have suspicions about behaviors of parents that might place their children in harms way, would you be able to blow the whistle on them? Do we have a moral responsibility to report adult behaviors if we think children might be in danger? If we choose to say nothing, are we acting as enablers for possible abuse or neglect of little ones? Guess I'll be thinking about this while I'm running errands today. Later...

Yes, I would. Yes, I have and even on family members...and I sure wish some of the people that knew about my abuse as a child would have had the intestinal fortitude to call on my behalf. I do believe it is a moral and ethical responsibility to protect children, no matter who is harming them nor the consequences for calling.
 
Are we to blame……let’s think about this. The Lindbergh baby, Susan Smith, Kyron, Zahra, Haleigh Cummings and many I have missed. I think the latest is the Caylee Anthony case. All of these children looked well fed, well dressed, very well taken care of. We look at these parents and say, “no, not them, they would never hurt their precious children.” But then we find out that they did. How are we, the public, supposed to react to little children who goes missing, who dies? I don’t thing we cannot help but be suspicious to these situations. It disturbs me immensely, but it is fact. We are only human.

Each case deserves to be judged on its own merits. Yes, many times when a child disappears or is murdered, it turns out that one or both parents were involved. BUT many times they were not. Just quickly thinking of children who disappeared from their homes, I think of Elizabeth Smart, Jessica Lundsford, Dillon and Shasta G., Riley Fox....and although suspicion first swirled around the parents, all were eventually proven to have nothing to do with the disappearance of their children.

We are only human. But we can all weigh each individual case without considering the guilt of other parents in other cases.

By the way, the Lindbergh baby? I didn't think the parents were involved in that! And although we may have grave suspicions about all the cases you cite, it is worth noting that you've included unsolved cases.....no one has been arrested or found guilty of those cases, and we really don't "Know" know who is responsible.
 
many people here are more concerned with their behavior since their child disappeared, which, along with their changing stories, do arouse suspicion which is understandable given statistics. I could care less what someone's personal life is like-anyone can be a crime victim. But, once you claim you're a victim then you're kind of expected to cooperate with the people investigating the crime you reported. When you refuse to do that, hire a notorious criminal defense attorney, ignore local media in favor of national appearances where licensing fees are routinely given, and use media time to defend your actions instead of being concerned with your child, it's pretty ridiculous to expect rational people to blindly believe that you are just an innocent victim who is being treated unfairly. I initially believed them-only their subsequent behavior changed my mind. I don't think it's reasonable to ignore the obvious-that experience has shown that parents whose children are missing and who want them found, cooperate with the authorities who are searching.



I can guarrantee that God forbid any one here ever had a child abducted..they would be hauled over the coals and damned to hell by a LARGe proportion of web sleuths!...Unless you have lived the life of a sober nun ..people will pick at everything you have ever done..and sum it up to guilty!

I have seen it with every case...Little Breanne..parents had nothing to do with it..yet after a couple od days the finger pointing and suspicion started...next thing you know we had outlandish theories of mom killing the child and dad disposing of body. IF the case had gone on any longer..in fact IF little Breanne was still not found..I have NO DOUBT there would be a forum on here baying for the blood of those innocent parents...and that saddens me.


I see the same thing happening here.
 
Whenever I see something that I feel is significantly wrong, I picture Zahra Baker's sweet face.

I call.
 
many people here are more concerned with their behavior since their child disappeared, which, along with their changing stories, do arouse suspicion which is understandable given statistics. I could care less what someone's personal life is like-anyone can be a crime victim. But, once you claim you're a victim then you're kind of expected to cooperate with the people investigating the crime you reported. When you refuse to do that, hire a notorious criminal defense attorney, ignore local media in favor of national appearances where licensing fees are routinely given, and use media time to defend your actions instead of being concerned with your child, it's pretty ridiculous to expect rational people to blindly believe that you are just an innocent victim who is being treated unfairly. I initially believed them-only their subsequent behavior changed my mind. I don't think it's reasonable to ignore the obvious-that experience has shown that parents whose children are missing and who want them found, cooperate with the authorities who are searching.

They didn't hire the 'notorious' criminal attorney, he was provided by a benefactor. They are defending their actions and why do you think that is? Have you seen the posts on this forum lately?

I'll say she had something to do with it when I see evidence of such. Getting drunk and getting her hair done isn't evidence she murdered her child.
 
but they are not the ONLY important thing. IMO, finding my missing child would be on a somewhat higher order of importance than protecting my "legal rights". People surrender rights all the time, to help, because something else is more important, all kinds of reasons. No one is compelled to exercise their rights-it is a choice and choices have consequences. In this case, the choice to refuse to cooperate with police may mean the child may not be found or may be found too late. Obviously, these parents have determined that their "rights" are more important than assisting law enforcement in finding their child. That's certainly their legitimate determination to make. But, it is also my legitimate right to have an opinion about that choice and to compare to other parents in the same situation and to make conclusions based upon this behavior.




Try searching the phrase "lawyered up" on this forum, and take a look at the dismissive attitude in many of the posts. Or search "dense attorney" and see what you get.

I'd call those reactions dismissive of people's legal rights.
 

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