Arizona girl, 2, left in car by father on 109-degree day and is found dead #2

[Rosydecember]

Putting in that number seems like a mistake by the prosecution to me unless it can be defended. JMOOO.

Why? If it was recorded that one of the girls said that? That was her words.

 

[Arkay]

Why? If it was recorded that one of the girls said that? That was her words.

Yes, this is my understanding as well.

The quote must be accurate only insomuch as it is a verbatim quote from one of the young daughters.

Not that LE has stated unequivocally that it was 59 times, nor that the dance school has it recorded as such, nor that it’s on a spreadsheet somewhere.

Just the little girl trying to answer whether this was a frequent occurrence or a rare mishap.

Between the little girl trying to explain that it was often, and the 16-year old indicating that this was the father’s standard procedure, IMO a pattern of child abuse is already established .

GET THAT MAN OUT OF THAT HOUSE!

 

[LadyL]

I opined earlier about the 59. I think it’s just kids language. How many times? A lot. More than 20? Yes. More than 50? Yes. 59.

59 is a large number. So in translation from kids language, it means a lot. My opinion as a mom.

I agree that's what it seems like it probably is.

 

[Charlot123]

He previously had a child removed from their home due to similar conduct, nothing was hidden. Why AZ did not act prior to Parker's death or since is a genuine mystery to me. JMOOO.

Well, that's quite a question. Maybe we first have to get the answer to the question, "why did CS and ES (a stepmother) were granted full custody of the daughter of whose existence CS never knew until the was five years of age?"

And many others, including CPS report that seems to have been silenced?

After the older daughter said that living with CS and ES "totally changed her as a person", and then another child in their custody, Parker, died in a hot car, you wonder how bad the atmosphere in the house was.

 

[Ladyotm]

This is a very dangerous man.

Agreed. He went into overtime, thinking of a way to get out of the situation. He thought he could manipulate the cops into believing him. I can't stand his sorry whimper and his stupid mustache.

 

[abyquinn]

Putting in that number seems like a mistake by the prosecution to me unless it can be defended. JMOOO.

I just watched LE interviewing a witness who said such & such happened a few times. LEO comes back with, ‘How many times? 10 times? 50 times?’ I could see this happening with the girls, nicely of course but LEOs are going to fall back on their usual manner of speech. The little one is going to know 10 times is too small a number, but 59 times sounds right. They were left in the car a lot. He left his 6 year old in the car for 4 to 5 hours while he worked a shift, 10 years ago! This tragedy was long over due. Those poor babies.

 

[abyquinn]

He previously had a child removed from their home due to similar conduct, nothing was hidden. Why AZ did not act prior to Parker's death or since is a genuine mystery to me. JMOO

The reason that they are going to go with is that LE was not notified by CFS.The behavior was bad enough that he lost custody of his child. Did CFS make a deal back then if CS will agree to hand 16 back to her mother they won’t press charges? Is that legal?

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Well, that's quite a question. Maybe we first have to get the answer to the question, "why did CS and ES (a stepmother) were granted full custody of the daughter of whose existence CS never knew until the was five years of age?"

And many others, including CPS report that seems to have been silenced?

After the older daughter said that living with CS and ES "totally changed her as a person", and then another child in their custody, Parker, died in a hot car, you wonder how bad the atmosphere in the house was.

Agree but I would say "is" not "was" - JMOOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Agree but I would say "is" not "was" - JMOOO.

Yes. (((

 

[shetalksinstereo]

Thank you, I've been reading through the first thread trying to find that.

According to this page, there's an app/service called AcuraLink which includes speed notifications:

MyGarage

mygarage.honda.com

" Speed Alert : Receive a notification when your vehicle has exceeded a speed limit set by you. "

I have an older Mustang (2011) and it has a safety feature called "My Key" that doesn't allow the car to go over a certain speed limit. Mine is set to 80 and I have no way to turn it off because I don't have an admin key as I bought it used. I have no need to go over 80, so I just deal with it. It also turns the radio down if your seatbelts aren't fastened and you are driving over 30mph.

That said, how can a woman who is a DOCTOR, continue to allow her spouse unfettered access to their children in a vehicle when she has actual knowledge of 138???? So irresponsible, unethical, etc.

 

[abyquinn]

Well, that's quite a question. Maybe we first have to get the answer to the question, "why did CS and ES (a stepmother) were granted full custody of the daughter of whose existence CS never knew until the was five years of age?"

And many others, including CPS report that seems to have been silenced?

After the older daughter said that living with CS and ES "totally changed her as a person", and then another child in their custody, Parker, died in a hot car, you wonder how bad the atmosphere in the house was.

Did C&E have her full time for the 4 years or was it shared time? The original battle between the parents lasted for quite a while, with CS failing to show up for court dates etc. I’m trying to understand the time frame bc he didn’t know she existed until she was 5. According to 16, the car as a babysitter started before age 7. She lived with them for 4 years, but I thought she wasn’t removed until she was 13ish? So he was leaving her alone in the car before the 4 years began? How the heck did that slip by CPS? Poor kid, It sounds like she was living a nightmare.

 

[callmehenry]

Did C&E have her full time for the 4 years or was it shared time? The original battle between the parents lasted for quite a while, with CS failing to show up for court dates etc. I’m trying to understand the time frame bc he didn’t know she existed until she was 5. According to 16, the car as a babysitter started before age 7. She lived with them for 4 years, but I thought she wasn’t removed until she was 13ish? So he was leaving her alone in the car before the 4 years began? How the heck did that slip by CPS? Poor kid, It sounds like she was living a nightmare.

They had her full time is my understanding.

 

[NuttMegg]

Agree but I would say "is" not "was" - JMOOO.

I know this is unkind. But it didn't look like a homey home, either.

 

[Kittypoo]

Did C&E have her full time for the 4 years or was it shared time? The original battle between the parents lasted for quite a while, with CS failing to show up for court dates etc. I’m trying to understand the time frame bc he didn’t know she existed until she was 5. According to 16, the car as a babysitter started before age 7. She lived with them for 4 years, but I thought she wasn’t removed until she was 13ish? So he was leaving her alone in the car before the 4 years began? How the heck did that slip by CPS? Poor kid, It sounds like she was living a nightmare.

IMO this has similarities with the treadmill father murderer CG being forced to parent a child where there is no bond

 

[Weki]

I think the treadmill case is more pronounced violence against a child. CS and Justin Harris Ross fall under a more passive form of neglect. Both types of neglect kill, but I think the passive kind is harder to attach criminal culpability to. Look at the Ferriter case - the father got only 5 years and the mother got probation for essentially torturing a child. I think this will go to trial because CS is not going to admit culpability - he now will see himself as a victim and his spouse will enable that. Once they get told that this type of thing happens frequently and it’s not a crime they will double down.

How will the state prove CS crossed the line from bad father to child abuse to get to felony murder?? Will be a riveting (legally) and devastating (emotionally) case! JMO

 

[Kittypoo]

I think the treadmill case is more pronounced violence against a child. CS and Justin Harris Ross fall under a more passive form of neglect. Both types of neglect kill, but I think the passive kind is harder to attach criminal culpability to. Look at the Ferriter case - the father got only 5 years and the mother got probation for essentially torturing a child. I think this will go to trial because CS is not going to admit culpability - he now will see himself as a victim and his spouse will enable that. Once they get told that this type of thing happens frequently and it’s not a crime they will double down.

How will the state prove CS crossed the line from bad father to child abuse to get to felony murder?? Will be a riveting (legally) and devastating (emotionally) case! JMO

The parallels I was seeing was between the 16 year old and Corey. In both cases the child was unknown to the father until much later in life. The relationship only follows a court battle over child support IMO resulting in resentment and alleged neglect

 

[al66pine]

CS. Unaware of Oldest Dau's Existence for 5 Years?

.... Maybe we first have to get the answer to the question, "why did CS and ES (a stepmother) were granted full custody of the daughter of whose existence CS never knew until the was five years of age?"....

snipped for focus @Charlot123
A source pls for CS being unaware of oldest dau's existence for 5 yrs?
Anyone?

Aaaaand, does anyone know when (the year or oldest dau's age) AZ CPS agency first investigated neglect or abuse of oldest dau?

IIUC, CPS was instrumental in removing her from CS & ES home to return her to Mother's custody. Do IUC, or was dau's return to Mother's custody brought about thru negotiation or court order as part of extended child custody & support civil litigation?

 

[sunspun]

Was CS's older daughter really completely unknown to him until she was 5, or did he just not have contact with her til then? I mean he didn't even know she had been born? Have we heard much about that? Seems like he must have shown some discouraging signs early on if he got a woman pregnant, and she decided it was better to not even tell him about it. Even though that would mean no child support. Don't think she saw much fatherly material in him, and that was a long time ago, when he was still pretty young. Wonder how he eventually did find out he had a child. And was the girl's mother ever married to CS? Was that later, after the birth, or before, if so? Were they married or even an official couple when she got pregnant? She must have just run away from him completely when she found out, for him to not know he had a child by her til 5 yrs later...

 

[Angelcat13]

The parallels I was seeing was between the 16 year old and Corey. In both cases the child was unknown to the father until much later in life. The relationship only follows a court battle over child support IMO resulting in resentment and alleged neglect

I have been wondering a few things about CS & 16 -

1. Why did he not know about her until she was 5 y/o? Did mom have concerns about his ability to be a good dad?

2. HOW did he find out about her when she was 5 y/o?

3. Why did he want custody? Was it to punish her mom? Was it to avoid paying child support and possibly force mom to pay HIM child support? Was it an excuse to be a SAHD?

4. Why was he granted custody? Did mom willingly let him have custody - possibly thinking it would be good for them to establish a father-daughter relationship? Did mom have to give in because she didn’t have money for a legal battle with CS who was being supported by ES? Did mom have health (physical or mental) or substance abuse issues? (This is ONLY a thought and I, in no way, want to even remotely suggest mom had any issues. Her daughter clearly lived/loves her and the courts later sided with mom and allowed her to regain custody.)

On a side note, I can speak from experience ONE reason why a mother may want to keep a child from their father. I got pregnant while still in HS & my BF (baby’s dad) was a good kid but had a very dysfunctional & dangerous mother who frequently popped in and out of his life. I chose to cut all ties with him and NOT tell him I was pregnant because of my fear of what my child’s life would be like with this woman even remotely in his life. When my son was 5 y/o (ironically the same age 16 was when her dad found out about her) my ex-BF suddenly tried to come back into my life. It became a very dangerous situation and at that time in my state you could only get a restraining order if you were or had been married or if you had a child together. Since I hadn’t put him on the Birth Certificate, I couldn’t get a restraining order. I was so glad that I hadn’t named him on the Birth Certificate because that would have given him “rights” and being able to get a restraining order (which could easily be violated) and/or being awarded child support was not worth the danger my son would have been in. Looking back I am amazed at how smart I was for being only 16 y/o.

 

[Charlot123]

Was CS's older daughter really completely unknown to him until she was 5, or did he just not have contact with her til then? I mean he didn't even know she had been born? Have we heard much about that? Seems like he must have shown some discouraging signs early on if he got a woman pregnant, and she decided it was better to not even tell him about it. Even though that would mean no child support. Don't think she saw much fatherly material in him, and that was a long time ago, when he was still pretty young. Wonder how he eventually did find out he had a child. And was the girl's mother ever married to CS? Was that later, after the birth, or before, if so? Were they married or even an official couple when she got pregnant? She must have just run away from him completely when she found out, for him to not know he had a child by her til 5 yrs later...

I can see so many scenarios, but all of them start with "the mother of the child didn't want CS to raise her daughter, so much that she didn't even tell him." What happened later? Either the mother lost a job and was desperate and had to reach out to CS for help, or she got sick (she died recently, remember?) and could not take care of the daughter. All i see is that she informed CS about the child out of sheer desperation.