I don't know if it's true or not. And abc appears to have gotten quite a few stories about JH wrong. And the sources are un-named. One would think that "threat assessment team" should have realized that just because someone quit doesn't mean they are not a threat. He could still get on campus, the only places he wouldn't have been able to get to are with key card access. But there still plenty of other places with open access. And quite a few mass killers were upset at being fired and came back at their workplace to seek revenge. So someone who quit/been fired could in fact be at their most dangerous.
Armchair Psych Profile and JH's Background
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They are discussing this on Anderson now. Specialist said the team may not have had jurisdiction to do anything since he left the school.
Dr Drew adding threat did not qualify for 72 hour hold.
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Dr Drew adding threat did not qualify for 72 hour hold.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
HastingsChi
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For the record ABC News got ONE story wrong as the events were unfolding AND did a MAJOR internal investigation to make sure that such mistakes do not happen again. ABC News is a best-in-class news organization with absolutely NO AGENDA.
That is a FACT!
gitana1
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BBM
Narcissistic rage.
Domestic abusers, for example, are at greater risk of murder or murder-suicide than most people. Violent abusers whose spouses try to leave them often have homicidal and suicidal thoughts. Why? They are filled with impotent rage. They feel they have been wronged and offended. They want to strike out and punish those who they feel have disrespected them. So, they take that person's life or the life of that person's child. Happens every day. They are so rage-filled that they don't care if they go to jail for life or if they die in the process. They just want revenge. Anything other than terribly hurting those who went against them is unimportant.
I heard a couple of radio guys screaming about this today and how the school should have done more. But what can they do legally once he drops out? Here's the law: If he made a direct threat of harm to himself or others, a treating psychiatrist or psychologist could contact the authorities and divulge the threat. Barring that, they could attempt to have him voluntarily assessed, if he showed signs of instability but made no direct threat.
If he refused to be assessed or suddenly dropped out, what can they do then? "Officer, we have a student who has been acting strangely and we think he might have a mental issue." Again, unless there is a specific threat, the treating psych cannot divulge anything and it is highly unlikely that the police would even come out to check on him.
However, if the police did come out to check on him with a mental health team or whatever, all they could do is ask if he wanted to kill or harm himself or others. If he said no and there were no witnesses to such statements or dangerous behavior, the police cannot do anything and he would remain free.
The school has no liability to anyone except the students and staff at the college, period. Anyone treating him for a psychiatric or psychological issue could face liability to persons outside the school but only if he made a very specific, direct threat and they failed to report it to the authorities.
In the case of the shooter of Gabriel Giffords, he was acting bizarrely and scaring students and staff. His behavior was off enough that he was eventually asked to leave the school. Do we see his school being sued for not taking any further action after he was asked to leave campus? No. Because there is nothing else they can do legally. They cannot divulge anything he did that was not directly threatening. They cannot force him to be assessed. They cannot call his parents. He dropped out and there was no more the school could do.
The radio personalities today were saying the school should have hired private detectives to tail him after he dropped out. I find that ludicrous. College is not like a grammar school that has total control of your kids when they are there. It's not a jail or a hospital or whatever that has a duty to those who cannot voluntarily leave. People act like college staff are more responsible than parents and that college students are minor children. They are not. College students are full grown adults. Colleges have little authority over them and thus no duty of care when it comes to the students' personal lives, unless directly related to campus activities (like fraternity hazing).
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“Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team” in “the first 10 days” of June but it “never came together” because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, James Holmes began the process of dropping out of school, a source said.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31324092/detail.html
He just BEGAN the process of dropping out. That means he is not completely DROP-OUT and BETA Team should have done something at least IMO
Fenton knew so she called BETA Team ..
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31324092/detail.html
He just BEGAN the process of dropping out. That means he is not completely DROP-OUT and BETA Team should have done something at least IMO
Fenton knew so she called BETA Team ..
The spitting story appeared on abc. That has been disputed.
JH's mother disputes the way abc interpreted her statement "you have the right person."
songline
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What a generous post, WOW thank you so much. :blowkiss:
All I do know is that we do not know much if anything.
And now with an open door to what if there is an accomplice?
it stirs it all up differently, because MI can be taken / manipulated.
So many if’s and so many lost lives. WOW
then there are some questionable things about his therapist, that would make me as a parent want to know - Did she do enough? could she have done more?
This is a challenge for the best of the professionals.
the only thing I know for sure is that he is MI
OH!
and the remark about them looking at his hair. LOL I do have some sarcastic wit that cracks people up, I try not to use it much.
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:worms: Get ready, sounds like someone is using the can opener.
Finally, we can have some necessary bits of info and dare voice who may have been able to stop this!
Finally, we can have some necessary bits of info and dare voice who may have been able to stop this!
HastingsChi
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ABC News stands by their reporting of the mother's statement to their reporter/producer. I should note that this component of their coverage was reviewed in the internal investigation.
I'd love to see a link from ABCNews.com regarding their original sourced reporting of the spitting story
songline
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So why wasn't it an urgent matter? If you feel someone is a danger you act NOW.
Or wasnt she given the memo on how MI works???
:banghead:
gitana1
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Beginning the process means telling your advisor you're dropping out. There is no "process". It takes five minutes.
And what can the BETA team do? The same thing the school in the Arizona shooter's case did. They told him he could not come back to school unless he agreed to a psych eval. That's the extent of their power.
There is quite an urge, IMO, to find everyone and everything else liable for this terrible crime. It's the theater's fault for not having security at the exits. It's the parent's fault for not forcing their son to do [xy or z]. It's the school's fault for not doing more, although no one can show me how they had the authority to do anything more than what they apparently did. It's the gun's fault. It's the movie industry's fault for making violent movies. It's societies' fault for how we treat loners or the mentally ill, etc. etc.
Sometimes horrible things just happen and there is nothing anyone but the person who decided to do the horrible thing can do, to stop it. In retrospect there are always hints. But in reality, it's much too hard to predict.
In this day and age, most people and institutions would do everything possible to prevent a massacre like this. If we all had the power of foresight, there would be no more murder. But alas, we don't.
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i feel it is going to be ugly later. :moo:
HastingsChi
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Ironically it was reported that Dr. Lynne Fenton was the individual wrote the the University of Colorado's policy on threat assessment...
HastingsChi
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JH was told by the school that he needed to fill up a form to complete the withdrawal. He didn't fill it up.
gitana1
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Again, there is only so much a school or a treating psych can do. If there is a direct threat to harm, they can call and report it to the authorities. If not, they can ask the student to be voluntarily assessed. If he or she refuses, they can drop them from the school, as they did in the AZ shooter's case.
Unless you guys want to change the law, there is nothing else the school can do. They cannot force a student to accept assessment and they cannot notify the authorities or the parents of anything the student may have done or said that does not constitute a direct threat of harm. They can't.
songline
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His legal team must have told him if you Dont want to get in more mess SHUT UP,
only talk when I am here..
While it is their job, to protect him, I hope they are in there every day talking and talking to get the details. FRESH
IMHO he is smart and can make up some chit...and tell it like a pro...
So the sooner they get him to talk the better.
JMO
They can deal with his hair color later
So why did abc publish that he was spitting and had to wear a spit guard? You think that's good journalism? Sources told them he was spitting. That's what the article starts with.
I am not sure when that editor's note appeared.
gitana1
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So can you tell me what that means? He didn't fill out a form so he is still a student there? Come on now.
And even if that meant he was still officially a student of the school, I ask, once again, what could or should the school have done? They cannot force him to be assessed. They can tell him he is going to be expelled if he refuses to be assessed but he took care of that by telling them he was dropping out. They can't notify the authorities unless he made a direct threat.
Clearly, he was not going to play by their rules. They have no power to force him to be assessed or diagnosed - no power. Nothing. Once more, the only thing they can do is say he can't come back to class without an assessment. Well, he left. That's it. Their limited authority over this student is ended.
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