Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[jjleroche]

Point remains, they publicly referred to her as a Person Of Interest.

POI is the new term for suspect. LE uses 'POI' instead of 'suspect' these days, but it means the same thing.

They didn't stop anywhere to eat after lunch because it was only a 15 minute drive back.

If they had another meal together that night before they got sick, we would have heard about it already. It is obvious that the focus has been on the Beef Wellington incident, and continues to be so, weeks later. JMO

With respect, IMO we are all aware that EP is a Person of Interest. She is not necessarily the only POI however.
There may, or may not be other(s). Investigators have already expressed their deep concern about the level of speculation surrounding this case. They certainly won't be informing the general public of other details unless absolutely necessary.

I disagree that "if they had another meal together that night...we would have heard about it already."
I do not believe that we would have heard about it. Investigators would likely be aware of it, but wouldn't be making it public knowledge. Why would they? That could compromise the investigation significantly - the last thing they need.

There might be one or two others who may have known if this were so, but they undoubtedly would have been made aware by investigators that (further) leaking was a big no-no. At this point, I don't think,they'd be particularly keen on attracting the ire of investigators, and would be seriously buttoning their lips.

As to your comment "It is obvious that the focus has been on the Beef Wellington incident, and continues to be so", that may well suit investigators just fine. They're not in the business of shooting themselves in the foot IMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If the 4 victims in question had eaten together anywhere else, either before or after the famous (or infamous) lunch, IMO it would have definitely been at a private home, either one of theirs, or maybe SP's. If it had been anywhere else, the establishment in question would have said so weeks ago. No way would they not have heard about it. Everyone in the district would have been talking about it, in fact the whole state and country is. I am in Sydney, and just 2 days ago my doctor asked me what I thought about the case! No, there was no cafe, restaurant, etc involved. Not possible.

I agree, they could have eaten within any of their private homes or they could have eaten snacks prepared and provided by any one of them.

Nobody is suggesting there is any store or shop bought goods or restaurants involved.

I once read a case of an elderly couple who had been severely poisoned by foraged (poisonous) berries that they mixed up with regular safe berries. At home the wife had baked them into pies and put the pies in the freezer. It was months later when they heated a pie up and ate the poison, which by that time had become more potent and not less due to the heating up process.

I guess what I'm saying is that when it comes to deliberate or accidental poisoning, if one is eating home prepared food - literally anything can accidentally happen if ingredients are foraged, they can be eaten out of season due to having been stored or processed and frozen.

If someone is intentionally setting out to poison people, then it could be as simple as putting the poison in anything from snacks to a meal to drinks.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/revealed-mushroom-toxicologist-also-at-centre-of-rose-petal-murder/news-story/cfe937f5715c9c58e2d4d7c9d63d8b1d?amp

Revealed: Mushroom poisoning toxicologist also at centre of ‘rose petal murder’​

Behind a paywall, I think. Posting it here for those who subscribe.

 

[CityKid]

oh I know I totally agree
I don't think she was sick at all
but I was replying to a theory that had her not sick and replying that she herself said she was sick so that theory didn't work

ETA: this is the sentence I was replying to - 'But if four people hang out together and they ate foraged mushrooms for breakfast first thing that morning, that would explain how they could have ingested the exact same poison and EP didn't get sick as she literally wasn't there.'

and my reply -

[bbm]

but she said she did get sick, bad enough to go to the hospital

Yes. And EP's own actions and words are why she's the POI. She "had" to go to hospital because she didn't know what the guests ate before or after the luncheon she served them. If 100% of my luncheon guests were admitted to hospital, not just given IV hydration and a liver-protective drug and sent home, and I'd eaten the same food, I'd assume something was wrong with my food.

 

[Salah11]

There is only one named suspect and she cooked the meal and lied multiple times. There is clearly a reason for that .

Moo

 

[kittythehare]

Had another common denominator between the 4 been considered by LE - eg the IMHO ludicrous idea of a cafe/restaurant/another family member’s house either before or after lunch - then this would have been a place investigated by police, with forensic evidence collected.
It has to be assumed, given the ONLY site that LE have visited and collected evidence from us EP’s house, that all other possibilities have been ruled out. LE generally do not follow one lead and exhaust it before investigating another - particularly in an instance where there are multiple deaths.

Do you really imagine they didn't search all the victims' homes and investigate every aspect of their lives because media have not published it?

 

[kittythehare]

IMO, the problem with suppressing names (and faces) in a multitude of cases is that the public does not get a chance to report stuff they may have witnessed in relation to the accused that may be relevant -- be that beneficial or detrimental to the accused's case.

I understand the principle of no comments while a matter is sub judice, but hiding the identities of every person charged or under suspicion is not good for justice IMO.

lE often do not disclose their suspicions before they charge somebody.
Tactical.

 

[JBowie]

lE often do not disclose their suspicions before they charge somebody.
Tactical.

True, but the OP said until sentencing.

 

[Salah11]

All the symptoms matched Death Cap poisoning and there is zero reason to believe it wasn’t.

Let’s not forget the Suspect said in her own words

In a police statement obtained by the ABC, Erin reportedly told investigators that she had prepared a meal of beef Wellington with a “lot of mushrooms”

A mushroom cook and her killer family lunch: The mysterious case gripping Australia

A bizarre case has enthralled people all across the globe – involving mushroom poisoning, a series of deaths, a tearful interview and now reports of a past mystery illness. Tara Cobham and Bevan Hurley report

www.independent.co.uk

That she then conveniently claimed she fed to her children but scrapped them off the dish as they didn’t like them.


So it would seem even EP would believe that’s the cause of the death.

 

[jjenny]

MSN

Victoria Police have launched a homicide investigation, and are treating Ms Patterson as a suspect in the killings.

Erin Patterson has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing and has not been charged by Victoria Police.

At an emotional memorial for his parents in Gippsland on Thursday, Simon Patterson, 49, revealed the final text his mother sent to the family group chat as she lay dying in hospital.

“It was no fluke that mum’s final text message on our family group chat as she lay in Dandenong hospital was: ‘Lots of love to you all’,” Mr Patterson told 350 mourners, according to the NCA NewsWire.

Exactly. It took days for victims to die. I have no doubt they were asked if they all ate together anywhere else than EP's lunch.

 

[jjleroche]

True. EP was named a suspect at least by August 7. It has simply been ignored by some.

The evidence that the public is aware of is damning. Lying about taking a dehydrator to the community bin is part of her troubles. SPs illness. A friend said she possessed multiple books about mushrooms. She was a forager.

The police are trained to recognize suspicious deaths. Here we have multiple deaths related to the DC mushrooms served in a meal. It is horrifying to consider.

She's cunning and sly with her words, both spoken and written. She is a proven liar. The Investigation will prove whether or not she knowingly fatally injured these lovely people.

IMO the fact that EP was named as a Person of Interest has not "simply ignored by some", and in fact, does the "some" a disservice.

I, and I'm guessing some other Websleuthers, have been trained to keep an open mind in the course of my work duties (which have included conducting investigations ) to avoid making assumptions. and jumping to conclusions in the absence of clear evidence.

Given that there is still no toxicology result which confirms that the illnesses and deaths of the victims were caused by death caps, or anything else served by EP, IMO it is entirely reasonable to keep an open mind and consider other aspects.

Whether or not someone is "cunning and sly" and a "proven liar" , that doesn't necessarily mean they are a murderer at all. There are many reasons why people say and do things (some not at all obvious.) MOO

 

[ch_13]

With respect, IMO we are all aware that EP is a Person of Interest. She is not necessarily the only POI however.
There may, or may not be other(s). Investigators have already expressed their deep concern about the level of speculation surrounding this case. They certainly won't be informing the general public of other details unless absolutely necessary.

RSBM.

So, why do you think the police named Erin as a POI if they were so concerned about speculation harming their investigation?

If you go back to when this story broke on August 5, Erin was just described as a 48-year-old Leongatha woman. It was only after the press conference of August 7 when Inspector Dean Thomas named Erin as a POI did we see her name and photo in the press. Before that, the media did not reveal her identity.

And if there was another POI who could absolve Erin of any responsibility for these murders then the police have an obligation to say so after they've turned her life upside-down. They can't keep her life on hold for months or years while they pursue another suspect behind the scenes. And, in fact, police do this all the time. How many times have we read "X is no longer a suspect" or "the police have cleared X" in an open investigation?

IMO, there's a reason why the police specifically chose to name Erin as the POI and there's also a reason why they have not named anyone else.

 

[CityKid]

RSBM.

So, why do you think the police named Erin as a POI if they were so concerned about speculation harming their investigation?

If you go back to when this story broke on August 5, Erin was just described as a 48-year-old Leongatha woman. It was only after the press conference of August 7 when Inspector Dean Thomas named Erin as a POI did we see her name and photo in the press. Before that, the media did not reveal her identity.

And if there was another POI who could absolve Erin of any responsibility for these murders then the police have an obligation to say so after they've turned her life upside-down. They can't keep her life on hold for months or years while they pursue another suspect behind the scenes. And, in fact, police do this all the time. How many times have we read "X is no longer a suspect" or "the police have cleared X" in an open investigation?

IMO, there's a reason why the police specifically chose to name Erin as the POI and there's also a reason why they have not named anyone else.

Exactly. Her children aren't even living with her. It's been more than a month. I don't know Australian laws but it beggars belief that she isn't with her children if they have another POI who can absolve EP of involvement.

 

[kittythehare]

True, but the OP said until sentencing.

' but hiding the identities of every person charged or under suspicion is not good for justice IMO.'
This is the comment I'm addressing.

 

[al66pine]

Where are the Children Now?

Exactly. Her children aren't even living with her. It's been more than a month. I don't know Australian laws but it beggars belief that she isn't with her children if they have another POI who can absolve EP of involvement.

@CityKid
Respectfully, do we know as a fact that EP's children are not back in her Leongatha home?

IDK one way or another, but----
If the VIC. child protection agency was involved in placing the children after these deaths, I doubt if that agency would release news of children's return to home. Also doubting LE would announce . Ditto SP. imo

Again, the children may now be staying somewhere other than EP's home. IDK.

 

[CityKid]

Where are the Children Now?

@CityKid
Respectfully, do we know as a fact that EP's children are not back in her Leongatha home?

IDK one way or another, but----
If the VIC. child protection agency was involved in placing the children after these deaths, I doubt if that agency would release news of children's return to home. Also doubting LE would announce . Ditto SP. imo

Again, the children may now be staying somewhere other than EP's home. IDK.

We don't know. But would they have been returned to her if she were still a POI in a triple murder? I don't know the answer to that; I'm not sure if that's addressed specifically in Australian law. And if she's not a POI, that should be announced as widely as all other coverage of this case.

 

[jjleroche]

All the symptoms matched Death Cap poisoning and there is zero reason to believe it wasn’t.

Let’s not forget the Suspect said in her own words

A mushroom cook and her killer family lunch: The mysterious case gripping Australia

A bizarre case has enthralled people all across the globe – involving mushroom poisoning, a series of deaths, a tearful interview and now reports of a past mystery illness. Tara Cobham and Bevan Hurley report

www.independent.co.uk

That she then conveniently claimed she fed to her children but scrapped them off the dish as they didn’t like them.


So it would seem even EP would believe that’s the cause of the death.

With respect, EP cannot officially be a "suspect" as there is no evidence to date that a crime has actually been committed.

The term "suspect" has been bandied about a lot in this matter by media

IIRC an official investigation source made a point of stating that EP is a "person of interest" and not a "suspect" MOO

Will look for the post but if anyone else happens to know of the specific post, please post. TIA

 

[RickshawFan]

With respect, EP cannot officially be a "suspect" as there is no evidence to date that a crime has actually been committed.

The term "suspect" has been bandied about a lot in this matter by media

IIRC an official investigation source made a point of stating that EP is a "person of interest" and not a "suspect" MOO

Will look for the post but if anyone else happens to know of the specific post, please post. TIA

There's no evidence that "there's no evidence to date" AFAIK. We don't know what LE has accumulated. But they also haven't let EP off the hook as a person of interest.

 

[jjleroche]

Logically, if LE hasn’t named another suspect or POI then EP remains the sole POI. I haven’t seen any statement from LE about an additional POI.

That doesn't mean that there are no other POI's. Investigators often won't inform the public of updates. MOO

 

[Salah11]

With respect, EP cannot officially be a "suspect" as there is no evidence to date that a crime has actually been committed.

The term "suspect" has been bandied about a lot in this matter by media

IIRC an official investigation source made a point of stating that EP is a "person of interest" and not a "suspect" MOO

Will look for the post but if anyone else happens to know of the specific post, please post. TIA

How do you know what evidence LE have?