Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[Kemug]

I'd like to know how they know it was hidden.

I have stuff packed away in all kinds of places, all kinds of technology, old phones, laptops, drives etc.
Just because they're not out on a desk or shelf doesn't automatically mean they are hidden.
Some of my old stuff even used to be in a shed, and an old house.

"Across the property" could mean exactly that - not just the house, but also the property it was built on. Maybe in an old shed, up a tree, buried in the ground.

 

[Karin1974]

Given that Erin and Simon were separated by the time of the alleged attempts to murder him, I suspect the dates simply represent the limited opportunities that Erin had to allegedly adulterate Simon’s food. Sheer opportunism with a good dose of premeditation IMO.

IMO - Brilliant analogy & I believe you’re correct!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

There are plenty of reasons someone might want to hide something in their own home and it can't be just assumed there is something nefarious about it.

For instance, a diary is a very personal thing. Many people would hide them.

Plus if you're going out and worried about burglars in your area, that would be a good reason to hide valuables and even devices with personal stuff like banking on them.

Not everyone is tech smart and knows how to protect devices.

 

[LordCyrus]

Unless there's a guilty plea deal, this case will go on forever in the court of public opinion. There will be petitions, books and a movie. Rebel Wilson could play the leading role.

 

[katydid23]

Hmm. IMO I don't think it can necessarily be assumed that EP is "dumb" or did "dumb things". Maybe - maybe not. The trial has not even commenced yet. Time will tell. (Just sayin'). MOO

If she hadn't done any 'dumb things' she probably wouldn't be in jail with multiple murder and attempted murder charges right now. JMO

 

[Amalgam]

There are plenty of reasons someone might want to hide something in their own home and it can't be just assumed there is something nefarious about it.

For instance, a diary is a very personal thing. Many people would hide them.

Plus if you're going out and worried about burglars in your area, that would be a good reason to hide valuables and even devices with personal stuff like banking on them.

Not everyone is tech smart and knows how to protect devices.

Absolutely. It will be interesting to see (and again not necessarily an indication of anything nefarious) if the data on any of the devices is securely encrypted.

The Police request for 20 weeks to analyze the devices may be due to time needed to break encryption or have deleted data forensically rebuilt.

 

[mussopossum]

I have to say that it does feel surreal to me the way the case has progressed over the past day. From relative silence to an arrest and charges is pretty significant, and I think the police did a great job in keeping things under wraps until they were ready to share important updates in the investigation. Obviously, still a lot to happen, but I did feel a bit shocked at the speed things happened yesterday. Nothing exists in a vacuum, I’m aware, but it really goes to show the professionalism of the detectives. No doubt there’ll be further updates before the next hearing in May. I look forward to discussing this case more with you all in the coming period.

IMO, When those died after this fatal lunch it opened up a whole new investigation beyond and before these deaths occurred.

 

[mussopossum]

Vic police seem to be doing all right. If you added together the intelligence of NSW and Qld police, I don't know, I think I might back Erin.

Yeah, I agree VIC police have done a great job with this case.

 

[Amalgam]

Like the Xmas dinner, the leftovers reheated can be a nice meal, for a single person who maybe doesn’t cook… it’s possible she sent a click clack (Tupperware) home with the 4, to give to SP. but since he wasn’t home, they decided to incorporate that meal into their own meal rather than it go to waste. It might have been prepared separately and boxed up ready to go before the 4 arrived at EP for lunch. EP saying I made this for SP since he couldn’t be here- saying its special meal. EP wouldn’t have expected the 4 to eat it, rather expecting it goes to SP who has a relapse of stomach prob & dies, not suspicious as he’s been very ill before.
Imagine her surprise seeing SP alive and well at hospital and the others sick and dying ….

I don’t think this holds up to scrutiny.

The duration between the ingestion of amatoxins and the onset of symptoms is quite predictable and well understood.

Given the time elapsed between the meal with Erin and the victims’ presentation to the hospital, they would have to have eaten ‘Simon’s portion’ almost immediately following the lunch with Erin.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

With a diary, even if I was innocent I would be worried that my words might be wrongly interpreted.
It has been known to happen...

 

[JLZ]

There are plenty of reasons someone might want to hide something in their own home and it can't be just assumed there is something nefarious about it.

For instance, a diary is a very personal thing. Many people would hide them.

Plus if you're going out and worried about burglars in your area, that would be a good reason to hide valuables and even devices with personal stuff like banking on them.

Not everyone is tech smart and knows how to protect devices.

I feel you were right the first time. It's presumptuous to call electronics in storage "hidden".

 

[Amalgam]

With regards to the accused’s alleged behaviour of trying to hide electronic devices but scattering them, trying to dispose of the dehydrator, I think that it is simply possible that she may be calculating but to a point. Clearly if she’s guilty she was cunning enough to go to lengths to hide the deathcap mushrooms in the meal, but when it came to disposing evidence, perhaps a bit sloppy. Did she think she wouldn’t be caught eventually?

I think given that she had allegedly gotten away with 3 previous attempts to poison Simon, including one that resulted in a coma, surgery and weeks in the ICU she may have believed that she could get away without attracting much suspicion or police attention.

If she researched amatoxin poisoning, she may well have read that by the time a victim experiences symptoms and presents to the hospital, the toxin is undetectable.

If she didn’t research well enough, she might think undetectable poison = no proof of the crime, when in fact death cap mushroom poisoning can be forensically proven without finding the Amatoxin itself in the blood.

It might’ve seemed like the perfect undetectable poison to the only partially informed.

 

[Amalgam]

Not if there was a one off incident. Obviously would be a rare and unusual thing, almost unbelievable, but then again so is deliberately poisoning 4 or 5 people, quite unbelievable. The judge and jury need to see evidence not speculation or debates about the likelihood of which is least likely.

Death cap mushroom spores or DNA found on the food dehydrator would go a long way towards rebutting the idea that she innocently purchased toxic mushrooms.

 

[JLZ]

IMO, When those died after this fatal lunch it opened up a whole new investigation beyond and before these deaths occurred.

If the charges for prior attempts go ahead, I think they should be at a separate trial. See how we're reacting, we've heard virtually no evidence that they happened and we're seeing a sequence that supports Erin's murderous intention all along. I think it would be prejudicial to try them together.

 

[Amalgam]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed due to sub judice>

Her full name is Erin Trudi/Trudy Patterson nee Scutter, but as mentioned in the first page of this thread, now she has been arrested and charged, discussing any criminal history is off limits due to the sub judice contempt rule.

<modsnip>

 

[Karin1974]

But they cannot make the arrest without 'probable cause' so there has to be some solid evidence already. JMO

MOO - Perhaps they’ve been able to find evidence of what made her ex husband extremely ill previously. Maybe they didn’t test for toxins or poisons back then & they’ve somehow managed to do so now? Would hospitals retain test samples taken from that time?

 

[mussopossum]

[rsbm]
Other than oral poisoning (food, drink), I can only think of inhaled poison (gas), and dermal absorption.

The former seems unwieldy and technically challenging and preparing poison for dermal application is so technically complex that I would think a perpetrator who did the research to understand and administer a topical poison would also get the dose right and achieve a fatal outcome (assuming that was the desired outcome).

The fact that the previous alleged poisonings failed to kill Simon, I feel that poisoned food or beverages were used, as they are easier to administer and often less than lethal depending upon the poison selected.

At first, I wondered if Munchausen syndrome in some degree could be involved. If she meant to make them a little ill so she could then care for them or fuss over them and feel needed when they didn't feel well... but she gave them way to much and they died. Did she also do this to Simon in the past to have him close to look after him after they split up by being able to comfort him and nurse him when he felt ill? Not sure if was in another relationship at that time or not but was just a thought.

 

[mussopossum]

MOO - Perhaps they’ve been able to find evidence of what made her ex husband extremely ill previously. Maybe they didn’t test for toxins or poisons back then & they’ve somehow managed to do so now? Would hospitals retain test samples taken from that time?

I would say so yes, I wonder if he presented with same symptoms back then and this was a huge factor

 

[Ellery84]

I wonder if they've been pre-emptive in arresting and charging her because they're going to *need* those sniffer dogs to find something IMO

Like what?

 

[Ellery84]

However she did begin cooking the meal BEFORE SP cancelled his visit. So that could show she did have him in mind when she cooked the toxic meAl.

Did she?
How do you know

When she began to cook….
When Simon cancelled….

Thanks Katy!