Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[lampformypath]

I’m eager to find out if the KK victim has identified BRE as her attacker.


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Good point MissUnderstood! What an amazingly courageous woman that KK lady is, and how horrible will the trial be for her.

 

[88mph]

Murder Hunt Car Clue The Sunday Times 19th June 1988 Dead in bedroom by Andrew Masterson and Maxine Brown

Police investigating the brutal sex murder of Vanessa Roberta Devlin, 23, have appealed to the public to help in the search for a man who gave her a lift to her Maddington house just before she was murdered.

The man was seen arriving in a metallic green Datsun 260 C sedan and is believed to be the last person to see her alive.

Senior Detective Sergeant Max Kiernan the man heading the hunt for the notorious “Southside rapist” said yesterday the 1976 ? or 1977 model car had been parked at Miss Devlin’s house at 2003 (1999?) Albany Highway. It had mag wheels, stickers on the rear windscreen and black and yellow registration plates.

Urgent
The urgent hunt for the driver of the vehicle may help to resolve the disturbing question haunting police this weekend. Was the murder the work of the “southside rapist” or is there now a second sex fiend stalking the southern suburb?

Sergeant Katich said police believed the driver of the car had given Miss Devlin a lift to her home when she was hitch hiking from a friend’s house on Friday morning.

It is believed she was picked up near Nicholson Rd Canning Vale. Senior D-S Vince Katich said the murder had occurred between 11.30 am and 2.00pm on Friday (17[SUP]th[/SUP] June 1988). Her body was discovered about 3.00 pm by the other occupant of the house, Mr Max Carroll. She was lying in a rear bedroom naked from the waist down and had been strangled with an electrical cord.

Mr Carroll was yesterday being interviewed by police but was not suspected of any involvement in the crime.

Miss Devlin, unemployed had been living at the house for only seven weeks before her death.

The house is an old rambling bungalow set back from the road on a large block next to Stockerly railway station. It is surrounded by trees and tall bamboo plants and has no near neighbours.

Police sources said it appeared Miss Devlin had been strangled while she was being raped. The sources said there were marked differences between her killing and that of Victoria Clarke – but a link between them had not been discounted.

“There is every chance it is the same person involved, but we just can’t say” said S Kiernan. “There are indications? and some evidence to support a connection.”

Copycat crime
He said the daylight timing of the killing was “out of character” for the southside rapist who is thought to have so far struck at night.

He said it was possible it was s copycat crime.

“But I think we are one step closer to catching the southside rapist” he said.

Det Sgt Katch said they are “extremely confident” the man seen driving the Datson could explain what had happened on Friday. Continued Pg 2.

Whoa.........Datsun 260C is the same car listed with Kerry Turner.....





"The person in the car called out and Kerry turned around and walked back to the car, spoke to the person, and then got in the car and left and that was the last time she was seen alive that we know of."







Police hunted for the vehicle, described by witnesses as a dark blue car, similar to a Datsun 260C, which had spoked wheels, but came up empty handed.







It was one of the few leads they had into Kerry's disappearance.

See here:
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/she-accepted-a-lift-and-never-seen-again-unsolved-murder-of-teen-kerry-turner-20160628-gptg4f.html

 

[Credulious]

If there is both DNA and a forensic link via the cord on both Ciara and Karrakatta assault then that is two sources of evidence that reconcile the DNA across two crimes.

Trying to dismiss both pieces of evidence as a link to both crimes will be hard. There is two sources. DNA would stand up if the cord has a forensic link across both crimes.

Police have supposedly uncovered a “forensic link’’ between a 1995 Claremont rape and the murder of Ciara Glennon, 27, the third of the Claremont serial killer’s victims

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...al-killer-ng-892372bf2e7886119c85f1860924685a

 

[Credulious]

It may pay to check them. The interesting thing is, Tilbury murdered a girl ( Victoria (Vanessa) Devlin 27th June) allegedly involved in heroin trafficking.

Kerrys Brother was murdered after being injected with drugs. Kerry is killed on, or day after her 18th birthday.

Whoa.........Datsun 260C is the same car listed with Kerry Turner.....
"The person in the car called out and Kerry turned around and walked back to the car, spoke to the person, and then got in the car and left and that was the last time she was seen alive that we know of."
Police hunted for the vehicle, described by witnesses as a dark blue car, similar to a Datsun 260C, which had spoked wheels, but came up empty handed.
It was one of the few leads they had into Kerry's disappearance.
See here:
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/she-accepted-a-lift-and-never-seen-again-unsolved-murder-of-teen-kerry-turner-20160628-gptg4f.html

In 1985 their son Jamie, 18, died after being injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs by another man who was later jailed for manslaughter.

Six years to the day after that tragedy, the body of the Turners’ youngest daughter Kerry, also 18, was found in bush near Canning Dam — the victim of a brutal murder that has never been solved.

Kerry was last seen alive on June 30, 1991, getting into a car that had stopped to offer her a lift on Shepperton Road in Victoria Park about 5am.

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/time-fails-to-dull-pain-of-murder-ng-ya-111114

 

[lampformypath]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought she was able to provide. Not sure if she saw enough to be able to identify his face clearly and pick him out directly. However, smell and the sound of his voice might be identifiable.


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That's the first thing that came to mind for me too, SMELL??? Weird hey? Not talking Brut 33 (where would you be without...) but a distinctive smell about him, maybe he ate a lot of curries?? "I'll have the Tandoori Chicken thanks, extra spicy! Oh and a large rice to go!!!"

 

[petedavo.au]

It may pay to check them. The interesting thing is, Tilbury murdered a girl allegedly involved in heroin trafficking.

Kerrys Brother was murdered after being injected with drugs. Kerry is killed on, or day after her 18th birthday.



In 1985 their son Jamie, 18, died after being injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs by another man who was later jailed for manslaughter.

Six years to the day after that tragedy, the body of the Turners’ youngest daughter Kerry, also 18, was found in bush near Canning Dam — the victim of a brutal murder that has never been solved.

Kerry was last seen alive on June 30, 1991, getting into a car that had stopped to offer her a lift on Shepperton Road in Victoria Park about 5am.

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/time-fails-to-dull-pain-of-murder-ng-ya-111114

Anyone been down to Battye library to find out who that man was yet?

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[petedavo.au]

That's the first thing that came to mind for me too, SMELL??? Weird hey? Not talking Brut 33 (where would you be without...) but a distinctive smell about him, maybe he ate a lot of curries?? "I'll have the Tandoori Chicken thanks, extra spicy! Oh and a large rice to go!!!"

There was a prolific rapist in the Southern suburbs, who was nicknamed Mr Stinky, by WAPOL. From memory, I think they got him when he moved to Geraldton.

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[Credulious]

Anyone been down to Battye library to find out who that man was yet?

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His name is online somewhere

 

[Akai]

That's the first thing that came to mind for me too, SMELL??? Weird hey? Not talking Brut 33 (where would you be without...) but a distinctive smell about him, maybe he ate a lot of curries?? "I'll have the Tandoori Chicken thanks, extra spicy! Oh and a large rice to go!!!"

From what I understand about trauma, PTSD triggers can include a subconscious or even unconscious reaction to smell. So even beyond the obvious (e.g. a particular cologne or food smell) a person's particular pheromone or body odour might be recalled.

When my grandma died I was also told that the last sense to go is smell so even when she was practically unconscious we were encouraged to believe she would recognise us in the room from our scent. Moreover, many years later (about ten) I was passing the house she lived in for 30 years and saw the new owner out the front and asked if I could go in. Immediately upon entering I could still smell her.

Not sure they do IDs from smell because it would be totally unreliable, but if she was near the CSK she might have a reaction to his scent or even consciously recognise it


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[Credulious]

How suss is that. Tilbury murders a Victoria Devlin charged several days before, and Tilbury murders her. Is that suspect or what.
Police should be wringing TIlburys neck till he spills the beans. Never to be released.

• Federal Police allege Victoria Devlin was involved in a heroin ring.
  

• Victoria Devlin (23) was charged with heroin possession several days before being killed, under the customs act.

• Denis Michael Herbert (26) was charged the day before and is in Canningvale Remand Centre.
  Denis Michael Herbert had a visit from VD on the day she was murdered. It was alleged she was a courier bringing heroin in from the Eastern States.
  Sunday Times Perth June 19th 1988
  

*James Alexander Tilbury (46) was convicted of Victoria Devlins murder

 

[Credulious]

On the surface, Victorias murder was really about protecting Mr Big heroin

His background views on his life as a prisoner at Fremantle Prison, views on homosexuality, capital punishment. Tilbury was convicted in 1971 for the murder of Lynette Robeson and again in 1989 for the murder of Vanessa Devlin.
https://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/collection/data/762912744

 

[Akai]

If there is both DNA and a forensic link via the cord on both Ciara and Karrakatta assault then that is two sources of evidence that reconcile the DNA across two crimes.

Trying to dismiss both pieces of evidence as a link to both crimes will be hard. There is two sources. DNA would stand up if the cord has a forensic link across both crimes.

Police have supposedly uncovered a “forensic link’’ between a 1995 Claremont rape and the murder of Ciara Glennon, 27, the third of the Claremont serial killer’s victims

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...al-killer-ng-892372bf2e7886119c85f1860924685a

What's interesting about that article is that it doesn't specify DNA as a link between KK and CG. I'm sure I read others that did, but that may have been their interpretation.

So yes, could be looking at two distinct types of forensic evidence: DNA from CG and another forensic link between CG and KK. This could explain why they had DNA to test at the beginning but couldn't link KK at that stage, and why they only linked CG and KK after discovering something else on CG's body.

Given how controlled and careful the CSK has been, it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't leave much of anything on KK or any of the other victims. Maybe there wasn't clear DNA on KK to begin with.

Thanks for that information.


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[Pandit]

Hi Akai,

The "forensic link" between Ciara Glennon and the 1995 Karrkatta rape victim wasn't made until 2009. For many years the suggestion that the two cases were linked by same offender was resisted so the file sat untouched until reopened again.

Sorry if I've missed anything and this has already gone up.

ps. I think given she lived and went straight to the hospital, they got a full DNA profile from the Karrakatta victim. The other girls who were out in the weather for some time may be LCN (low copy number) dna.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...vestigate-1995-rape-lead-20151016-gkaq8i.html

Thank you so much for this information.

My first instinct is to think that they subsequently found pubic hairs on CG they were able to test. However, if they had a solid DNA profile from KK from the beginning I would assume that any DNA they got from CG or JR at the beginning would match that. So maybe they only got pubic hairs (or something else that couldn't be tested comprehensively at the time/something with different forensic information) from KK as well and that wasn't tested until later.

However, I still wonder then how familial DNA and a subsequent direct test on BRE would link to everything. Unless it's a case of "A links to B which links to C which links to D".

(Comment not directed at you janwa, just following on from the information provided).


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[Akai]

Hi Akai,

The "forensic link" between Ciara Glennon and the 1995 Karrkatta rape victim wasn't made until 2009. For many years the suggestion that the two cases were linked by same offender was resisted so the file sat untouched until reopened again.

Sorry if I've missed anything and this has already gone up.

ps. I think given she lived and went straight to the hospital, they got a full DNA profile from the Karrakatta victim. The other girls who were out in the weather for some time may be LCN (low copy number) dna.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...vestigate-1995-rape-lead-20151016-gkaq8i.html

I hadn't seen anything in this particular discussion about the exact dates that the link was made so thanks.

I think this adds to the picture that the link between KK and CG may not have been DNA from the perpetrator.

Which would suggest DNA from CG (or, I suppose, JR) originally that was used to compare to taxi drivers. Then something else found on CG that forensically linked her to KK. Maybe there was no actual DNA found on KK. (Just thinking a bit out loud here.)

However, that all bothers me for another reason. If they had DNA to compare to taxi drivers then how come they couldn't rule out LW and other suspects?


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[MissUnderstood]

On the surface, Victorias murder was really about protecting Mr Big heroin

Guess you can’t give up any names if your dead!!! Moo


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[Canning Vale]

Thinking about a victim’s detection of smell. They’d probably be able to depict if he was drinking beer or scotch ‘n coke. Probably able to smell BO or deodorant but not able to tell what deodorant - except Brut - thanks Lampformypath.

The victim’s might have been able to detect food bits around his mouth or leftover food slop-stains on the front of shirt - distinctive smells like garlic or vinegar.

 

[Pandit]

Very interesting. Given blue and green can often be mixed up particularly at night, it may be indeed be the same car.

Done it before myself.

Whoa.........Datsun 260C is the same car listed with Kerry Turner.....





"The person in the car called out and Kerry turned around and walked back to the car, spoke to the person, and then got in the car and left and that was the last time she was seen alive that we know of."







Police hunted for the vehicle, described by witnesses as a dark blue car, similar to a Datsun 260C, which had spoked wheels, but came up empty handed.







It was one of the few leads they had into Kerry's disappearance.

See here:
www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/she-accepted-a-lift-and-never-seen-again-unsolved-murder-of-teen-kerry-turner-20160628-gptg4f.html

 

[Pandit]

When vision is impaired, by hood or simply because it's very dark and adrenaline is surging other senses are heightened.

Raymond Edmunds (Mr Stinky) serial rapist and killer was known for having a distinctive smell. When he was eventually caught, it was found he worked a dairy farm.

Thinking about a victim’s detection of smell. They’d probably be able to depict if he was drinking beer or scotch ‘n coke. Probably able to smell BO or deodorant but not able to tell what deodorant - except Brut - thanks Lampformypath.

The victim’s might have been able to detect food bits around his mouth or leftover food slop-stains on the front of shirt - distinctive smells like garlic or vinegar.

 

[Canning Vale]

With regards to processing DNA – back in the 1990s I was on jury duty – a rape within Perth’s outer southern suburbs. A pubic hair was located within the victim, however they weren’t able to establish who the hair belonged to (victim or perp.), because it was covered in vaginal fluid. They were not able to simply wash the hair.

The prosecution explained that they’d located the hair but weren’t able to establish who it belonged to – instead they described to the jury what it looked like.

What if a victim of rape had sexual relations beforehand, nowadays they’d probably be able to separate the DNA. But I don’t think they couldn’t separate it back in the 1990s.

Any replies to this post – mature and positive comments only - please!

 

[Annalise]

That's the first thing that came to mind for me too, SMELL??? Weird hey? Not talking Brut 33 (where would you be without...) but a distinctive smell about him, maybe he ate a lot of curries?? "I'll have the Tandoori Chicken thanks, extra spicy! Oh and a large rice to go!!!"

Hi lampformypath - Ted Bundy would emit an odour when he got angry.


http://arnesencasestudy.freetzi.com/Excerpt.pdf


“His eyes would turn black. Or he would suddenly develop a mark on his cheek. Other times he would emit an odor, one more animal than human. From the time Ted was a three year-old scaring his aunt with knives, to later when teachers, friends and relatives began to witness his sudden anger, there was a physical metamorphosis that came over him”.
MOO