Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #16 *Arrest*

[sleepinoz]

Oh that right that was the policeman that took the stand.
Give myself a slap.
I need to eat some cheap snacks. Any ideas?

Shapes are good if you don't mind thunder thighs

 

[Trooper]

well . .. I reckon it's going to trial for murder.

the fact that cause of death cannot be determined does not rule out human interference and does not automatically confer the cloak of natural death. It merely considers the mechanics of her death to be unknown, and this due in large part to her being left exposed in the bush for 8 months.

I think it would be terrifically radical for the court to consent to Borce going to trial for involuntary manslaughter, AND again, pleading not guilty. It would require the court to suspend judgement in the most peculiar way.

So that's me, sticking my neck out. Even though courts do some inexplicable things every now and then.

But then, men who kill their wives are so legion, so common, so wretchedly persistently turning up every couple of days, that this goes against the grain of the current climate of the court in Victoria, as well as most other states. It just doesn't fly well with the public, who's taxes pay for the courts. There is the immovable fact of a woman at home one morning, and then found dead in an exposed and lonely bush site months later.

Manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter doesn't cover that immovable fact.

 

[they'll get you]

It’s like if someone is lying and they can’t look at you, I’m seeing Borce was distancing himself so no one could read him. The whole family dynamic was broken and Sarah was the one who’d suffer.

In other words self preservation was ultimate both for himself and Sarah.

.

"Sarah would often go to him for a hug. I felt like she was supporting him and he was so self-obsessed with him feeling like a victim, he didn't give much back to Sarah or anyone else that could be suffering," Ms Gray said.

Borce Ristevski's lawyers to ask for murder charge to be downgraded

 

[Moreinfo2]

Clothes she was last seen in - what this person wasn't in PJ's ?

Yes I’m still confused. If she supposedly went out to clear her head, she got changed into her work clothes that lay on her bed. Right?
But, why haven’t we been told what clothing she was found in? Were they pjs or work clothes?
It’s like the bigger clearer pin pointing evidence is not being discussed in court yet!

 

[sosocurious]

Wouldn't Borce have to tell his somewhat varied version of events, for a manslaughter charge to even be considered by the magistrate?
To tell his story wouldn't he have to admit to something that he did that contributed to Karen's death?
Is the manslaughter approach because his team and he are going to argue it was not planned and pre-mediatated?
Sorry if that is a dumb question.

I am not understanding why they are going from not guilty of murder to not suggesting he will plead guilty to manslaughter either.

 

[Trooper]

Wouldn't Borce have to tell his somewhat varied version of events, for a manslaughter charge to even be considered by the magistrate?
To tell his story wouldn't he have to admit to something that he did that contributed to Karen's death?
Is the manslaughter approach because his team and he are going to argue it was not planned and pre-mediatated?
Sorry if that is a dumb question.

For starters, he has to walk back the whole yarn of ' the clearing of the head' walk. He has to describe and demonstrate how he killed her, ( involuntarily, accidentally ) .

He has to demonstrate how he knew she was dead, before he buried her ( this is a dicey business .)

He has to crack up a bit with remorse. So far, that's been an indulgence that Borce has not participated in, at all.

He has to convince a jury that the money problems were not contiguous with the accidental death. ( because the money stuff is a huge , huge motivational factor. )

He has to throw himself on the mercy of the court, and the empathy of a jury.

Good luck with that, Borce, old boy.

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes I’m still confused. If she supposedly went out to clear her head, she got changed into her work clothes that lay on her bed. Right?
But, why haven’t we been told what clothing she was found in? Were they pjs or work clothes?
It’s like the bigger clearer pin pointing evidence is not being discussed in court yet!

Weren't her work clothes laid out the next morning when Sarah saw them, when she was looking around the house for 'hints'?

If so it's impossible that she had them on. IMO unless BR dressed her she was in her PJ's.

 

[sleepinoz]

Wouldn't Borce have to tell his somewhat varied version of events, for a manslaughter charge to even be considered by the magistrate?
To tell his story wouldn't he have to admit to something that he did that contributed to Karen's death?
Is the manslaughter approach because his team and he are going to argue it was not planned and pre-mediatated?
Sorry if that is a dumb question.

I am not understanding why they are going from not guilty of murder to not suggesting he will plead guilty to manslaughter either.

I don't think the Magistrate will downgrade to Manslaughter. He would have a better chance if he was going to plead guilty, but not if his plead doesn't change.

 

[CalliopeGG]

I wonder who held up the sign?

Why would they think they were being bugged??

 

[they'll get you]

well . .. I reckon it's going to trial for murder.

the fact that cause of death cannot be determined does not rule out human interference and does not automatically confer the cloak of natural death. It merely considers the mechanics of her death to be unknown, and this due in large part to her being left exposed in the bush for 8 months.

I think it would be terrifically radical for the court to consent to Borce going to trial for involuntary manslaughter, AND again, pleading not guilty. It would require the court to suspend judgement in the most peculiar way.

So that's me, sticking my neck out. Even though courts do some inexplicable things every now and then.

But then, men who kill their wives are so legion, so common, so wretchedly persistently turning up every couple of days, that this goes against the grain of the current climate of the court in Victoria, as well as most other states. It just doesn't fly well with the public, who's taxes pay for the courts. There is the immovable fact of a woman at home one morning, and then found dead in an exposed and lonely bush site months later.

Manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter doesn't cover that immovable fact.

IMO BR has more against him than Baden-Clay did. The precedent of Baden Clay whose phone didn’t leave the house when he disposed of Allison so there were no phone pings as evidence, in fact Allison was on depression medication and, a long shot, could have done that swan dive off that bridge 14klm away or been abducted from a quiet leafy suburb like Avondale Heights. Karen was found a lot further away, covered so suicide is totally ruled out and phones pinged together whilst travelling.
Funny how both husbands used their wives cars to dispose of them, one in the dead of night with three kiddies asleep and the other in broad daylight.

IMO we are going to trial AND there will be the same outcome.

IIRC BC backpeddled and tried for manslaughter sand look what happed there! The evidence that came out at BC’s trial was so much more than the committal hearing.

If not, I’ll eat Benjii.
I’m crossing everything possible for Karen.

 

[sleepinoz]

I don't think the Magistrate has enough to say it won't go to trial.

 

[sleepinoz]

IMO BR has more against him than Baden-Clay did. The precedent of Baden Clay whose phone didn’t leave the house when he disposed of Allison so there were no phone pings as evidence, in fact Allison was on depression medication and, a long shot, could have done that swan dive off that bridge 14klm away or been abducted from a quiet leafy suburb like Avondale Heights. Karen was found a lot further away, covered so suicide is totally ruled out and phones pinged together whilst travelling.
Funny how both husbands used their wives cars to dispose of them, one in the dead of night with three kiddies asleep and the other in broad daylight.

IMO we are going to trial AND there will be the same outcome.

IIRC BC backpeddled and tried for manslaughter sand look what happed there! The evidence that came out at BC’s trial was so much more than the committal hearing.

If not, I’ll eat Benjii.
I’m crossing everything possible for Karen.

Nooooooooooooo don't eat Benji

 

[Oz Jen]

For starters, he has to walk back the whole yarn of ' the clearing of the head' walk. He has to describe and demonstrate how he killed her, ( involuntarily, accidentally ) .

He has to demonstrate how he knew she was dead, before he buried her ( this is a dicey business .)

He has to crack up a bit with remorse. So far, that's been an indulgence that Borce has not participated in, at all.

He has to convince a jury that the money problems were not contiguous with the accidental death. ( because the money stuff is a huge , huge motivational factor. )

He has to throw himself on the mercy of the court, and the empathy of a jury.

Good luck with that, Borce, old boy.

Agree Troops. Any walking back will prove him to be a consummate liar.

Self defence? No razor cuts, no scratches, no evidence.
Mitigating circumstances over stressful finances? - but these were peachy keen according to Borce.

And not a caterpillar in sight.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Did Borce's son live with the couple? If not currently, did he for the formative years when he and Sarah where growing up?

Welcome to Karen’s thread, deugirtni. It’s great to see it getting international interest.

 

[CalliopeGG]

Wouldn't Borce have to tell his somewhat varied version of events, for a manslaughter charge to even be considered by the magistrate?
To tell his story wouldn't he have to admit to something that he did that contributed to Karen's death?
Is the manslaughter approach because his team and he are going to argue it was not planned and pre-mediatated?
Sorry if that is a dumb question.

I am not understanding why they are going from not guilty of murder to not suggesting he will plead guilty to manslaughter either.

Wouldn't Borce have to tell his somewhat varied version of events, for a manslaughter charge to even be considered by the magistrate?
To tell his story wouldn't he have to admit to something that he did that contributed to Karen's death?
Is the manslaughter approach because his team and he are going to argue it was not planned and pre-mediatated?
Sorry if that is a dumb question.

I am not understanding why they are going from not guilty of murder to not suggesting he will plead guilty to manslaughter either.

Could it mean he has approached his lawyers with a different story? Having had quite a reality check over the past few days, perhaps he will try to minimise his involvement, like all good criminals do.

 

[Moreinfo2]

What were the visiting relos and friends told that went to visit the day that she was reported missing.
Seeing as the initial story from Borce was she went to clear her head and could possibly be an abduction, I’m sure those relos wanted to help and go search behind their property. What did Sarah and borce say to them, to not want to help and go search for Karen. Was it “no don’t worry we’ve been told to stay at home in case she comes back. Or no there could be a bad person out there that may strike again. Or did these relos and friends have an inkling she wasn’t taken from the track ?
I’m sure if Sarah had lost her dog, she wouldn’t be sitting at home waiting for the dog to come back, she’d be out looking for it and the most obvious spots would be all that walking track and bush behind them.
Borce and Sarah did not have any will to look behind their property. It was a waste of time and they knew it.

 

[purpleandgreen]

I

Did Borce's son live with the couple? If not currently, did he for the formative years when he and Sarah where growing up?

Its all in the earlier threads, plus heaps and heaps of other information. Again, welcome. We’re only used to you being on William’s thread, in Australia.

 

[sosocurious]

I am curious if the police can tell if the home cctv's was tampered with.
What evidence was sent to the US I wonder?

 

[Detective Willy]

IMO BR has more against him than Baden-Clay did. The precedent of Baden Clay whose phone didn’t leave the house when he disposed of Allison so there were no phone pings as evidence, in fact Allison was on depression medication and, a long shot, could have done that swan dive off that bridge 14klm away or been abducted from a quiet leafy suburb like Avondale Heights. Karen was found a lot further away, covered so suicide is totally ruled out and phones pinged together whilst travelling.
Funny how both husbands used their wives cars to dispose of them, one in the dead of night with three kiddies asleep and the other in broad daylight.

IMO we are going to trial AND there will be the same outcome.

IIRC BC backpeddled and tried for manslaughter sand look what happed there! The evidence that came out at BC’s trial was so much more than the committal hearing.

If not, I’ll eat Benjii.
I’m crossing everything possible for Karen.

c

 

[Trooper]

Agree Troops. Any walking back will prove him to be a consummate liar.

Self defence? No razor cuts, no scratches, no evidence.
Mitigating circumstances over stressful finances? - but these were peachy keen according to Borce.

And not a caterpillar in sight.

should he go the manslaughter route, one of the first things he has to backtrack on, and I don't think Borce can do it, because his image of himself would suffer such a wound that the pain of it would be intolerable, is , he would have to discard the story of 'giving Karen $850 to pay a bill off that morning'.....

Can Borce do that? I don't think so, people.