GUILTY Australia - Kiesha Weippeart, 6, Mount Druitt, NSW, 18 July 2010 - #1

[Crosby87]

Respectfully snipped~
BBM
I'm just speaking from personal experience. When my sister had her kids removed from her by DoCS (in the same area kiesha lives in), and I became their foster parent, she had to complete parenting courses before her children would be returned. (and her kids were neglected, not abused)

She failed to attend some, and had to start over.She also had to see a therapist, but she lied through her teeth. I know because I was there sitting right next to her for the appt. :banghead:

Even though her partner was out of the picture at the time the children were removed from her care, they got back together, and he also had to complete the parenting classes before they could go back to the home.

The classes didn't help my sister one bit, but her partner got something out of it. He's been a single dad to them for years now.

Kristi’s assault on her daughter occurred roughly 5 ½ years ago and I wonder how Kristi plead to the assault charge? There are laws in some countries that prohibit the Crown from calling a spouse to testify against their spouse in Court with the exception being when a child is missing or murdered. I wonder why the Court didn’t convict her? Was it because her spouse couldn’t be called to testify against her? If this was the case, the Crown could have subpoenaed Kiesha’s medical records. Mr. Wieppart said he remembered the incident vividly. "I'll never forget seeing that. She was about 18 or 19 months ... it [the bite] was on the shoulder, through her clothing," he said. "It was so bad ... there was blood under the skin." IMO the Crown’s decision not to convict Kristi for committing this horrendous crime enabled Kristi to flee and not accept responsibility for a crime she obviously committed against a defenseless child who depends on her. The Court's decision to drop her charge only increased the risk that she would reoffend in the future. I think Robert is lying and Kiesha was not at home watching a movie the night before her mother reported her missing. My heart breaks for Kiesha and I am praying for her.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...iological-father/story-e6freuzi-1225901359892

 

[MsFacetious]

Let's see if I can explain this well.

If a child bites another child, it isn't uncommon for the bitten child to get angry and immediately bite the other child in retaliation.

If a child bites an adult, one would expect the adult to discipline the child, explain why that is not appropriate, etc.

If a child bites an adult with poor coping skills, an inability to handle their anger and especially, lack of impulse control....there is a decent chance that adult will bite the child back. Because it's an angry, impulsive reaction.

Getting frustrated, most adults can cope with that. An adult without the ability to handle anger and without impulse control, will not cope well with that. They can easily act out like a child.

When they can't get the door unlocked, they could start crying, throw the keys, or punch the door.

If they can't get the packaging off the toy, they could easily throw it against the wall.

If they can't get a small baby to quit crying, they could put their hand over the mouth to get the child to shut up.

If they can't get the child to do what they want, they could throw the child across the room.

If they are sleep deprived and frustrated to begin with...it is not at all out of the realm of possibility to think they could hurt or kill the child. More than likely without intending to. Obviously most never do and control these issues fairly well.

I think it's good they are looking into her first child's death.

I think there is a good chance that Kristi acted impulsively, angrily and from a lack of coping...IF she bit Kiesha.

I think there is also a good chance that Kiesha's disappearance resulted from impulsiveness, anger and poor coping skills as well if Kristi was involved.

I don't think any of the above excuses any of her behavior. I just think it helps to understand it. Elizabeth Johnson and Casey Anthony have both displayed poor impulse control. Which would help to understand their situations a bit more...at least for me, I can "see how it could have happened."

Hopefully that makes some amount of sense. :waitasec:

 

[watchful_eye]

I just read all 10 pages of this thread, and phew!

Poor, poor little Keisha!! Another senseless crime against an innocent child who fell through the gov't's cracks.

The mother and step-father do NOT look clean in this case. Lots of hinkiness going on, especially the past record of abuse/removal of Keisha from the home.

For christ sakes people!! If you can't deal with your kids, drop them off at a hospital or church, give them to family members, why MUST YOU ABUSE OR KILL THEM????

The mother bit this child and she was not punished?? Keisha was returned to her mother after being removed from the home? What has been going on in that family for the past 5 years...?

Keisha's bio dad has been vaguely in and out of her life...sad. Did he do ANYTHING when he saw the bite on Keisha???? He seems to have just accepted it. That's not right, if so.

Can I just say that I loved that "witness" for telling the man (presumably Keisha's step dad) to "Hit me instead" when he saw him smack the little girl (Keisha). He didn't keep walking...he cared.

Off topic it may be, but can anyone point me in the direction of this case:
http://www.news.com.au/national/couple-charged-over-sydney-womans-murder/story-e6frfkvr-1225907096144

I won't discuss it on this board, just need more links or a thread link...

G-d bless Keisha and her siblings, and all the other abused, neglected, missing, and murdered children, and the innocent family members that must live with the scars as well.

 

[Crosby87]

Let's see if I can explain this well.

If a child bites another child, it isn't uncommon for the bitten child to get angry and immediately bite the other child in retaliation.

If a child bites an adult, one would expect the adult to discipline the child, explain why that is not appropriate, etc.

If a child bites an adult with poor coping skills, an inability to handle their anger and especially, lack of impulse control....there is a decent chance that adult will bite the child back. Because it's an angry, impulsive reaction.

Getting frustrated, most adults can cope with that. An adult without the ability to handle anger and without impulse control, will not cope well with that. They can easily act out like a child.

When they can't get the door unlocked, they could start crying, throw the keys, or punch the door.

If they can't get the packaging off the toy, they could easily throw it against the wall.

If they can't get a small baby to quit crying, they could put their hand over the mouth to get the child to shut up.

If they can't get the child to do what they want, they could throw the child across the room.

If they are sleep deprived and frustrated to begin with...it is not at all out of the realm of possibility to think they could hurt or kill the child. More than likely without intending to. Obviously most never do and control these issues fairly well.

I think it's good they are looking into her first child's death.

I think there is a good chance that Kristi acted impulsively, angrily and from a lack of coping...IF she bit Kiesha.

I think there is also a good chance that Kiesha's disappearance resulted from impulsiveness, anger and poor coping skills as well if Kristi was involved.

I don't think any of the above excuses any of her behavior. I just think it helps to understand it. Elizabeth Johnson and Casey Anthony have both displayed poor impulse control. Which would help to understand their situations a bit more...at least for me, I can "see how it could have happened."

Hopefully that makes some amount of sense. :waitasec:

Thank you, you expressed yourself very well and made perfect sense. You have explained why Kristi doesn't feel she deserves to be judged by those who don't know and understand what she has been forced to live through.

Kristi was charged with assault when Kiesha was a toddler and she never took control of her emotions and stopped lashing out against her helpless daughter. Kristi also lost a child shortly before she had Kiesha which grossly compromised her ability to be a positive role model and parent to her child. I believe Kristi was clinically depressed and grief stricken after her first born died and she did not get the help she so desperately needed when she appeared in Court to face an assault charge. Kristi's live-in boyfriend at the time, CW, walked out on her after she suffered this tremendous loss and showed signs of a mental disorder. Rather than fight for custody of his biological daughter to protect her from continual abuse and seek professional help for Kristi, CW did nothing, and as far as I know, he did not provide financial support for his daughter that he is legally required to pay. He abandoned and neglected his family leaving them destitute and in deep despair. No wonder he doesn't believe Keisha will be found alive. He saw this coming and turned a blind eye.

IMO, the state needs to step in now and apprehend Kristi and Robert's two young children.

 

[Crosby87]

Off topic it may be, but can anyone point me in the direction of this case:
http://www.news.com.au/national/couple-charged-over-sydney-womans-murder/story-e6frfkvr-1225907096144

I won't discuss it on this board, just need more links or a thread link...

<snipped>
In the blue menu bar, click on the Search button, type in the person's name and it will take you to their forum. I typed in Kristi McDougall's name and received a "sorry - no match" notice. Go ahead and start a thread for her.

 

[Solstice Canyon]

Looking at that mannequin is just creepy! It makes me sad and gives me the heebie-jeebies all at once. I know they had good intentions, so am not blaming them for it. It's just very unsettling to see it there like that. I say someone replaces it with a live Kiesha, and soon! I don't actually believe that's likely at this point, but it sure would be great to find out I was wrong.

That cute picture of her with the face paint gets me every time.

 

[RubyRed]

A Doll dressed by Police the same way 6 year old Kiesha Abrahams was when she was last seen some 3 weeks ago at the parents Woodstock ave Mount Druitt home

Police seize items to check for fresh evidence at the Woodstock Avenue, Hebersham unit home in Western Sydney where missing 6-year-old girl Kiesha Abrahams lived and was last seen, having been reported missing on morning of 01/08/2010.

One week since Hebersham girl Kiesha Abrahams went missing. Mount Druitt local traffic is stopped by police questioning movements in the area last Sunday.

Kristi Abrahams and her partner Robert Smith leave the Plumpton Motel with their 4 week old son Levi and their 2 year old daughter Brianna where they have been staying with family and friends.

One week since Hebersham girl Kiesha Abrahams went missing. Mount Druitt locals release balloons in a neighbouring park to the unit block where the little girl lived.

Gifts, stuffed toys , cards & candles cover the front fence of 342 Woodstock Ave Mount Druitt where a vidual was held for the missing 6 year old girl Kiesha Abrahams

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225900554597?page=30

 

[MsFacetious]

Okay....those pictures of him carrying it and that close up picture...

It is even more creepy than I thought.

I see no reason why they couldn't just lay out the clothes, or release pictures of them. They are saying that clothing like that could be found at some point, not that Kiesha might still be wearing it.

"Detective Inspector Oxford asked the community to look closely at the mannequin, saying it was possible that items of clothing like those on it could be found."

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ry/story-e6frfku0-1225906788951#ixzz0wvANyNBi

So why does it have to appear as if Kiesha is wearing them??? Just any mannequin would have been fine...it's making it look like Kiesha but without a face, that I think is creepy.

Just the hair without a face is not going to trigger anyone's memory who saw her alive...it's the clothes that might bring in leads. So I don't get it. If they actually put a face to it and made it look JUST like Kiesha...that would serve a useful purpose. Seeing a life size replica of the missing child might jog someone's memory when a picture didn't.

This makes no sense and it IS creepy.

Unless it is a psychological tool...to try and break someone. Putting her out there, faceless, lifeless.... but I kind of doubt that is what they are doing.

Looking at that mannequin is just creepy! It makes me sad and gives me the heebie-jeebies all at once. I know they had good intentions, so am not blaming them for it. It's just very unsettling to see it there like that. I say someone replaces it with a live Kiesha, and soon! I don't actually believe that's likely at this point, but it sure would be great to find out I was wrong.

That cute picture of her with the face paint gets me every time.

 

[RubyRed]

Kristi Abrahams, mother of missing girl Kiesha Abrahams is escorted by detectives from the grandmothers home at Bidwell.The detectives took her straight to Mount Druitt police station where she was escorted inside.

Locals have put toys and flowers on the fence outside the apartment where 6 year old Kiesha Abrahams went missing in Mount Druitt.

Police and SES volunteers are in an extensive search of the Mount Druitt area after a six-year-old girl was reported missing. Kiesha Abraham was reported missing about 10am after her mother could not locate her. She was last seen when she was put in bed about 9.30pm.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225900554597?page=57

 

[RubyRed]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225900554597?page=57


This is a nice gesture for a Mom to give while people are searching for her child. Classy real classy.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Kiesha's grandmother desperate for answers

[snip]

Chris Weippeart, the biological father of Kiesha, and Liz, her grandmother, gave their first interview since Kiesha disappeared.

[snip]

Detectives are awaiting results of DNA tests understood to have been taken from bedding and furniture from Kiesha’s bedroom.

[snip]

Inspector Oxford said: ‘‘We have got a death in the family and now this second child has disappeared. You would hope for the best but she may no longer be alive, and that would be the second one ... And, yes, the child was bitten and some action taken against the person who bit the child.’’

He said Kiesha’s location during the seven days before she was reported missing on August 1 remained a focus of the investigation.

‘‘It is now three weeks and the hope of finding her alive are very, very slim, even remote,’’ he said.

Mr Weippeart said: ‘‘She used to run amok all the time. She used to love just playing. She was content with her toys – Pooh Bear and a bouncing Tigger.

‘‘I just want her found. I just want my daughter back. I just want my daughter back – that’s it.’’

http://www.smh.com.au/national/kies...e-for-answers-20100821-139p7.html?from=smh_sb

 

[fhc]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225900554597?page=57


This is a nice gesture for a Mom to give while people are searching for her child. Classy real classy.

oh & let us not forget, she is too 'busy' to search.

 

[Coldpizza]

oh & let us not forget, she is too 'busy' to search.

Wow unreal , you've got a child missing and the best you can do is flip the bird to the media? Are you kidding me? That does not sit well with me. These are times when I WOULD appreciate the media and BEG for help of my missing daughter.

Your in my prayers Kiesha

 

[butwhatif?]

Kiesha's grandmother desperate for answers

[snip]

Chris Weippeart, the biological father of Kiesha, and Liz, her grandmother, gave their first interview since Kiesha disappeared.

[snip]

Detectives are awaiting results of DNA tests understood to have been taken from bedding and furniture from Kiesha’s bedroom.

[snip]

Inspector Oxford said: ‘‘We have got a death in the family and now this second child has disappeared. You would hope for the best but she may no longer be alive, and that would be the second one ... And, yes, the child was bitten and some action taken against the person who bit the child.’’

He said Kiesha’s location during the seven days before she was reported missing on August 1 remained a focus of the investigation.

‘‘It is now three weeks and the hope of finding her alive are very, very slim, even remote,’’ he said.

Mr Weippeart said: ‘‘She used to run amok all the time. She used to love just playing. She was content with her toys – Pooh Bear and a bouncing Tigger.

‘‘I just want her found. I just want my daughter back. I just want my daughter back – that’s it.’’

http://www.smh.com.au/national/kies...e-for-answers-20100821-139p7.html?from=smh_sb

Thanks again for the link Idaho.
Firstly, I had to check the date on the article 'cause it's not the first interview they've done. But it certainly gives us a LOT more background info.

My mouth is agape with shock right now at this:

Ms Weippeart, fighting back tears, said: ‘‘The day Aiden came out of hospital he lived here with me for the first six weeks. She [Kristi] didn’t feel like a mother and didn’t feel like it was her child because she had a caesarean section and she didn’t want to walk up the two flights of stairs [at their unit]. All three of them stayed here for the first six weeks.‘

‘Three days after they moved out, Chris came running in and said, ‘Mum, Aiden’s blue.‘‘I went running up the street with Chris. Aiden was deceased three days after leaving my house.’’

So Kristi, Chris and baby Aiden (RIP) stayed with Chris' mum for 6 weeks, then three days after going back to live at their own place, Aiden dies? :waitasec:
And Kristi didn't feel like a mother, or that Aiden was her sweet precious firstborn...because of a c-section? WTH? Could have been PND/PPD or possibly something far more sinister.

(I'll point out now that I had two c-sections and lived in a 3 story townhouse with about 60 stairs, had PND and I still had no probs bonding with, or caring for my babies...)

I wish bio grandma had of elaborated to say who did the caregiving of Aiden while he was living with her.Or how much Kristi interacted with Aiden. Sounds like Grandma was the go-to woman since Chris went running to her when Aiden was blue. Had they even called an ambulance at this point?


I'm confused about the house locations, as the article makes out they lived really really close. So I wonder who moved. Chris' mum, or Kristi.

The house issue is only significant to me in that if it was the Woodstock ave unit that Aiden died in, then it was a health hazard with all the mould, as described in an earlier article. But would that be picked up on in an autopsy, since it can cause respiratory distress?


Another interesting tidbit:

She also questioned why everyone was calling her Kiesha Abrahams when the name on her birth certificate is Weippeart.

I'm of the belief that Chris was coerced into giving up his parental rights to Kiesha, and that the r/ship between Chris, Kristi and Robert was anything but amicable. And that there was some fear on Chris' part. That is my opinon only.

 

[butwhatif?]

Thank you, you expressed yourself very well and made perfect sense. You have explained why Kristi doesn't feel she deserves to be judged by those who don't know and understand what she has been forced to live through.

Kristi was charged with assault when Kiesha was a toddler and she never took control of her emotions and stopped lashing out against her helpless daughter. Kristi also lost a child shortly before she had Kiesha which grossly compromised her ability to be a positive role model and parent to her child. I believe Kristi was clinically depressed and grief stricken after her first born died and she did not get the help she so desperately needed when she appeared in Court to face an assault charge. Kristi's live-in boyfriend at the time, CW, walked out on her after she suffered this tremendous loss and showed signs of a mental disorder. Rather than fight for custody of his biological daughter to protect her from continual abuse and seek professional help for Kristi, CW did nothing, and as far as I know, he did not provide financial support for his daughter that he is legally required to pay. He abandoned and neglected his family leaving them destitute and in deep despair. No wonder he doesn't believe Keisha will be found alive. He saw this coming and turned a blind eye.
IMO, the state needs to step in now and apprehend Kristi and Robert's two young children.

BBM-
It seems that way, but Chris may have thought that DoCs was looking out for Kiesha, and since they were the professionals, they would know how to deal with it better, and that they had the situation under control. (but they clearly didn't).

And if it was after he had signed away his parental rights, then what could he do to help his daughter? His hands would have been tied. I'm sure that's a decision he must be regretting right now. (JMO)

Anyone remember off hand when he signed away his parental rights?

 

[Crosby87]

Thanks to everyone who posted the media reports. What a generous and beautiful outpouring of love. The balloon release was spectacular.

Chris&#8217;s mother said Kristi did not bond with Aiden and he died 3 days after Kristi was at home alone with him. This makes me suspect Kristi is responsible for his death. Although Detective Inspector Russell Oxford said: &#8216;&#8216;We will check the investigation was conducted thoroughly at the time to see if there is anything that would connect to this case, since police said they would not be exhuming his body, I don&#8217;t see how they can expect to determine whether Kristi caused his death since the Coroner already said his death was not a result of foul play.

Without a face, the mannequin looks like a ghost, which may frighten young neighborhood children and haunt Kiesha&#8217;s parents. I don't mind if Kiesha's mom and stepdad are haunted by the image of their daughter standing near their yard, but I am concerned it might confuse and disturb Kiesha's siblings. Kristi appears psychotic in the picture snapped of her sitting in the blue sedan. The fact Kiesha was wearing a purple jacket the last time she was seen suggests to me Robert took her into the woods and killed her there. Committing a violent act and murdering the eldest sibling in front of two younger children would be a very traumatizing experience, so I pray if Kiesha was murdered by either parent, it occurred outside the home. A man came forward and told police he saw a man with a girl that matches Kiesha&#8217;s age walk into the woods last Saturday when Robert told the police Kiesha was home watching a movie. If Keisha is dead and buried in the woods, I can&#8217;t see the point in removing her clothing because having the ground unearthed and her scent in two locations increases the likelihood searchers will find her body.

I am not convinced Robert and Kristi&#8217;s 2 children are safe with them unless they are supervised 24/7. Although though there is a strong possibility Robert won&#8217;t allow Kristi to harm his own biological children, and he will protect them from Kristi whenever she has a violent episode, Robert won&#8217;t always be there to protect them, so I strongly recommend they be removed and placed in temporary custody.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/kies...e-for-answers-20100821-139p7.html?from=smh_sb

 

[Crosby87]

BBM-
It seems that way, but Chris may have thought that DoCs was looking out for Kiesha, and since they were the professionals, they would know how to deal with it better, and that they had the situation under control. (but they clearly didn't).

And if it was after he had signed away his parental rights, then what could he do to help his daughter? His hands would have been tied. I'm sure that's a decision he must be regretting right now. (JMO)

Anyone remember off hand when he signed away his parental rights?

The DOCs should have made sure Chris was paying child support for his daughter. Even if Chris gave up his parental rights, as far as I know, he is still responsible for paying child support until she is an adult. I don't think he can be excused from protecting his daughter from abuse. AFAIK everyone is supposed to report incidents of child abuse.

 

[Crosby87]

<respectfully snipped BM>

I'm of the belief that Chris was coerced into giving up his parental rights to Kiesha, and that the r/ship between Chris, Kristi and Robert was anything but amicable. And that there was some fear on Chris' part. That is my opinon only.

If Chris legally gave up his parental rights, would the Department of Vital Statistics issue a new birth certificate with her mother's maiden name?

I think Kristi is psychotic and she needs to undergo a Court ordered psychiatric assessment, but this likely won't happen unless charges are laid against her. When Kristi was charged with assaulting Kiesha and appeared in Court to face the Judge, he could have ordered a psychiatric evaluation to see what a psychiatrist recommended before he decided to drop her charge.

 

[butwhatif?]

The DOCs should have made sure Chris was paying child support for his daughter. Even if Chris gave up his parental rights, as far as I know, he is still responsible for paying child support until she is an adult. I don't think he can be excused from protecting his daughter from abuse. AFAIK everyone is supposed to report incidents of child abuse.

Yep. I looked it up yesterday, and even if you sign over parental rights, you still have to pay CS. We don't know that Chris wasn't paying. We also don't know if he was working. He may be on a pension because of his illness.
My sister who is on a pension pays a lousy $10 per wk for 3 kids for child support.
Whereas Robert is definately employed per the Daily Telegraph.
I don't think think $ would be a major factor in this case anyway since they would be getting significant financial support from the gvt because they are indigenous.

You're spot on about everyone should be reporting incidents of child abuse, but if he didn't see her, how could he know if there was any abuse going on in the home?
IMO, the reason she wasn't going to school, and was rarely seen out and about was because there may have been signs of abuse that they didn't want seen. Why else would they not be taking her to school, even if it was just to give them some peace and quiet for 7 hours a day?
The aboriginal liason officer that knew the family, was involved with getting young aboriginal kids on track, one major point being schooling....and yet Kiesha still wasn't going?
Also, there's a system in place where if a child meets the requirements, the gvt will pay for them to get a taxi to and from school....at no cost to the parents.

We don't know if Chris chose not to be in Kiesha's life because he's a dead beat dad or if Kristi or Robert didn't allow him to see her.
Even judging just by the pics we've seen, Kristi looks pretty intimidating, imo.

 

[butwhatif?]

If Chris legally gave up his parental rights, would the Department of Vital Statistics issue a new birth certificate with her mother's maiden name?

I think Kristi is psychotic and she needs to undergo a Court ordered psychiatric assessment, but this likely won't happen unless charges are laid against her. When Kristi was charged with assaulting Kiesha and appeared in Court to face the Judge, he could have ordered a psychiatric evaluation to see what a psychiatrist recommended before he decided to drop her charge.

Not really sure. Gotta go back to check, but I remember reading about something being written or signed on the back of the BC. That could be it.

As for your second paragraph, I truely think it comes down to the cultural issue. DoCS and the gvt are scared to remove abused children from aboriginal families because of the outcry there would be by the aboriginal community about another stolen generation.

A quote from revampz from earlier in the thread:

I am in North Qld so we see it alot.....my father was head of the aboriginal liason police here so we have seen alot of bad and very, very sad situations.

and I can definitely tell you that the departments do tipetoe because of racial discrimination accusations. Which really is such a shame sometimes for the children who need care.......

More info re: stolen generation:

http://reconciliaction.org.au/nsw/education-kit/stolen-generations/

ETA: Just want to add that I'm part aboriginal, on both maternal and paternal sides. Didn't know about it until I was researching my family tree last year.