Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[mishy66]

Makes you think he’s got a lot of stolen money invested overseas.

MOO

100% he has!
The millions AC put to DdeH on the stand.

 

[Zanzibar]

Yes! And I noted that RB completely avoided answering AC's question about when he sold the Tamborine property. He said it was on two titles and couldn't remember.

They will be easy to find, once I’m back from holidays I can stop watching the sleuthing and actually do something useful. I was going to do title searches in a lot of the different addresses and properties mentioned. This being one of them. I’m also very interested in the provenance of the three different proprieties the group of four listed in their immigration arrivals cards from the Chusan.

 

[Meligator]

Discontinued, Since August 1, 1997

01 Aug 1997 is the day of Sally's last phone call with MB, when she claimed to be in "Tunbridge Wells"

Oh this one makes my stomach churn. He must have closed this company just before returning to AU without Marion (Assuming that in 1997 one had to fill out/submit paperwork to cancel company—which likely took at least a couple days to process). Did he leave Marion in UK like he did JO, while traveling to Belgium to close this company? Ugh.

 

[mishy66]

Can anyone help me with the following names, anyone remember these names from the inquest?

Michel Dumont
Franco Sansone or Sansone Franco

David Sansone was the one you put up right?
I only remember Michael - I would have to go back and hear it again but
I think I know what you're doing so good luck!

Try these - you never know!
These are from a list put up a few days ago so just going off what was up-
Wouters Willy
Ricky David
Frederick Dehedervary (no space after 'de')
Frederick De Hedervaru (ends in U instead of Y)
Frederike De Hedervary (female spelling)
Francis David de Hedervary
Chaim de Hedervary
Chaim Frederick David
Chaim David
Bernard Dupont
Christopher Dupont
Atilla Dupont
Tony Greca/Grecka
Anthony Gretch/Grech
Christopher Stein
Fleming
Wilson (is this the Wilson Bross International Exports Pty LTD mentioned in the forgery?)
Charles Gayon
Frank Melon
Gaetan (possibly used son's name from Janine Reno)
Guy Devio

 

[Meligator]

Discontinued, Since August 1, 1997

01 Aug 1997 is the day of Sally's last phone call with MB, when she claimed to be in "Tunbridge Wells"

Oh this one makes my stomach churn. He must have closed this company just before returning to AU without Marion (Assuming that in 1997 one had to fill out/submit paperwork to cancel company—which likely took at least a couple days to process). Did he leave Marion in UK like he did JO, while traveling to Belgium to close this company? Ugh.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I might be missing something here but I can't see the name FD only an S David using the CBE link?

Me too.. I’m tired so maybe I’m not seeing the connection. aside from address.

 

[mishy66]

They will be easy to find, once I’m back from holidays I can stop watching the sleuthing and actually do something useful. I was going to do title searches in a lot of the different addresses and properties mentioned. This being one of them. I’m also very interested in the provenance of the three different proprieties the group of four listed in their immigration arrivals cards from the Chusan.

I think you and I are on the same page in regard to these 4!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Scroll down to the external links and click on those

Deleted because I’ve realised the connection the names on my list lol

 

[chicken96]

Can anyone help me with the following names, anyone remember these names from the inquest?

Michel Dumont
Franco Sansone or Sansone Franco

No, I don't remember those names being mentioned. If it helps here is a list of the names AC read out (sorry, some of the spelling might be a bit off):


Anthony Gretch
Urtila Dupont
Bernard Dupont
Charles Geaton
Christoper Dupont
Christoper Stien
David Fredy
Fernand Nocuous Remakel
Francis David De Hedevary
Frank Melon
Fredy David
Frederick David
Frederick De Hededavaru
Frederic David Dehedervary
Gaeton Le Brousko
Guy Deveo
Phillipe Dent
Remmy Lejoy
Ric Blum
Rich Richard
Richard Lloyd West
Ric Richard
Ric West
Rodger Lauzoney
Willy Coppenolle
Willy David Coppenolle
Willy Wouters
Wouters Willy
Chaim Frederick David De Hedervary
Zadil Zwilling
Willy David-coppenolle

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

From the NAA files it seems like AU (at least not by early 1980s) suspected Freddy David was alias for WW (although there is lots of other known alias by that time). The NAA notes mention no evidence of WW entering AU between 1970 & 1974. Curious why you think there is another passport during that time (sorry if you explained before. Hard to keep up)?

Because the other passport is not Freddy it’s Fredy posted in the last thread if that helps.. passenger card arriving on Chusan

 

[mishy66]

Hmmm link doesn't seem to work

I am trying to catch up ...Are these different to all the links we found re business awhile ago Mishy ? Please explain LOL

@Eyespywithmylittleeye


@F.Knab put this link up to the dealings of a David Sansone
Registered entity data | CBE Public Search

At the base of this page it shows 3 links to documentation -

1. National gazette -
HV - SC

2. Annual Accounts -
NBB - Central Balance Sheet Office - Online consultation of annual accounts

Which gives a PDF -


LOOK AT BOTTOM NAME on this PDF




3. The third link on that 2nd page takes you here -
Données de l'entité enregistrée | BCE Public Search

Closed 1999

EDIT _ sorry it isn't allowing me to link the pages and defaults back to the main screen but follow the steps and you should find it all ( fingers crossed)

 

[gymtonic]

Lezen in de kunst: Nel



I haven't been able to follow through on "Nels " second marriage in Belgium to a doctor but I am assuming Mishy went down this rabbit hole for a link to this Ric Wouters re A Wouters and Willy Wouters .
so i thought i would post anyway , also i am still wondering about this if anyone found any connection on the Coppenolle line ?

This conversation came up many threads ago and it has been bugging me every now and then ..Most likely nothing but the Tamborine QLD seems like synchronicity considering ye ole passy too ...eeek ...i just have to get this out of my system because we havent found the Blum n Reid connection have we ?
QUoTED
I may be going off thread but I was looking at the NAA site for the Blum surname and came across an entry fro Maria Katharina READ (nee Blum). She arrived in Australia in January 1952 relocated soon after to Mount Tamborine. Could this be a relative of our man of many names as the surnames Blum, Read or Reid and Mount Tamborine have been mentioned earlier. The place at Tamborine "Yurnga" is still there, link is at https://agreatertown.com/australia_un/4br_house_vacation_rental_in_mount_tambourine_qld_0002668082

I replied

i have been logged out of the site and i tried to refresh but before i did i noted this name on the Copponolle line re WW mother/aunt and going back to 1922 there was a Maria Katharina but not Reid or Blum and as someone else said they migrated to the US .

So who is THIS Maria katharina READ nee Blum who came to Australia in 1952 and moved to QLD ?

I haven't followed any of the Mt Tamborine (in the Gold Coast hinterland) leads as yet but it does intrigue me. As a Brisbane based Queenslander, Mt Tamborine was a favoured place for us (me and my ex) to visit either for day trips or short stay getaways in the 1980s. Perhaps my memory of those times might form useful context? We used to go there because my ex had house sat for the Oz poet Judith Wright (Judith Wright - Wikipedia) when he was a uni student in the 1970s. He describes it as an "out the back of nowhere" place, sleepy, undeveloped etc and he always wanted to live there permanently (which I understand he now does).

Even my impressions of Mt Tamborine in 1980s was nothing like it is today - is that it was was still difficult to get to (as I seem to remember it narrow windy roads up the mountain still unsealed (gravel) in parts) and so few people lived there permanently. People we knew had land there and put shacks on the land to use as "weekenders". I stayed in one place owned by a friend that still hand no electricity or running water! so it was not unusual for people to purchase land their with a view to investment or with the intention of building a house when then retired. For me then the purchase of a block of land on Mt Tamborine and leaving it vacant as an investment strategy does ring true. As does the "letting it go" the the upkeep (eradicating weeds) got too much. I'm not saying that there may not have been another more nefarious reason but it is grounded in plausibility.
My memories of Mt Tamborine during the 1980s was of there only being one historic hotel, St Bernard's, that everyone visited for a beer when there Not a Dog’s Breakfast - St. Bernards Hotel

Another maybe contextual memory is that Mount Tamborine was a favoured place for Swiss and Germans to live as it "reminded them of the mountains they left behind"...I mean not really like the Alps but certainly a higher point than the Gold Coast and the feel of the place for Europeans was very different to the Oz icon beaches. It was wetter, it was cooler (it actually snowed on Mt Tamborine when I was staying there once and snow is un heard of in Queensland!). it was a favoured place for Europeans to set up bakeries, small B and B and serve Devonshire teas to attract the local tourist!

For me I am not that surprised that there is a Blum connected to Mt Tamborine in 1952 (if we assume it is a German / European name). There could be a relative connection as well or a lead to why the RB alias has been taken.

 

[mishy66]

And this is the conversation of the Financial Information -
75,000,000.00 Belgian Francs = 2,899,747.65 Australian Dollars!!!

On the money!
You have found the nest egg AC was asking DdeH about!

 

[mishy66]

And this is the conversation of the Financial Information -
75,000,000.00 Belgian Francs = 2,899,747.65 Australian Dollars!!!

@centred - this is what the links show ( no doubt much more to be found as from memory it was 5 M), I think?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

@Eyespywithmylittleeye


@F.Knab put this link up to the dealings of a David Sansone
Registered entity data | CBE Public Search

At the base of this page it shows 3 links to documentation -

1. National gazette -
HV - SC

2. Annual Accounts -
NBB - application.name - label.title.catalog

Which gives a PDF -

View attachment 334922
LOOK AT BOTTOM NAME on this PDF




3. The third link on that 2nd page takes you here -
Données de l'entité enregistrée | BCE Public Search

Closed 1999

Thank you! I found it but didn’t scroll to the bottom..

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

So my thoughts are we need to track the constant name changes and closing of companies agains travel dates..

but already I’m seeing some obvious ones

These finds are huge!

 

[gymtonic]

Can you clarify those dates please as there have been so many different dates on various timelines.
Thank you!
I have this down:

1971-12-09 sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques
1972-11-16 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Fraud 1 years prison
1974-01 Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974 -5- 21 - discharged from Valenciennes prison

I this in my table. "Dosai" IMO is a typo and is more likely the Appellate Court at Douai which is near Lille.

 

[gymtonic]

It doesn't look like his handwriting with those circles for dotting his i's and the way he has written photographer is different to how he has written it before. But the distinct underscore/line in his signature is there. Hmmmmm....interesting!

Having now seen all these arrival cards (great sleuthing @Jamaha!!) I still keep coming back to the way WW writes his 7s on the first arrival card and documents (with a cross bar - the way of most Francophone style and the way that is taught in those schools) and the way he has written his 7s on subsequent documents, arrival and departure cards (no cross bar and the way of most Anglophone writing styles ). it was that change that had me thinking in the early days that the WW visiting Oz the first time was the REAL WW and that the ones that follow is his brother FD.

 

[gymtonic]

Now this one is on the money!
Active up until May 2021
So Renov Pubs hasn't cancelled and moved onto other businesses.
ALL businesses still aligned with FdeH I would say. He just tried to hide it all.
Interesting find !

So with both WW and IK having the same address here -
rue des Francs, 46
1040 Etterbeek
Belgique

and activities still going on from that company leads me to suspect that this is a tax evasion company under the viso
Cordemans et Cie company and here is the 'tax advisor' Albert Cordemans and Dorothea Maslowska the A Team..
could be the 'dentist' and friend 'Maz'

And this could explain why I think WW and IK ( possibly without her knowing) have come out here in 1969 to set up an establishment in Australia. His REAL reason for using her to get residency fast and then heading back home.

IMO Just surmising

Yes, I posted something about the WW, IK/ Rues des Franc/ Cordemans and co connection and while back.
As well as there Dorothea Maslowska possibly being the Maz of the postcard. it didn't seem to get any bites from many on the thread at the time but I was keen on this theory!

 

[vivienbee]

I was a late joiner to the forum and I started my spreadsheet with a helpful text list posted by @Peralta (Thank YOU!) which I converted from text to table format (with columns for Year, month, day, event, commentary). I then Used the NAA files (as the documentary evidence - not hearsay) to add rows and columns to the timeline. I hav then added any information found by myself or others to this timeline. it's not a "spreadsheet" as such but gives a really good idea of the timeline.

Thank you so much for this!