Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

[Deleted member 249471]

Tea chests are sealed at the edges with metal strips. That’s a very accurate detail.

Thanks for posting that All this time, I was imagining something quite different, like a tea table you can put things inside, heheheee.

So it's essentially a wooden crate for packing.

I imagine that IF Marion packed belongings in such a crate, the contents would be very expensive and fragile. Like fine china. And the journey would be far. It would make no sense to pack anything else in there for a reasonably short trip. Especially a crate with metal seals!

There is zero percent chance a 'little old man' would be able to move a few crates like that filled with books. Or even a portly pilot in his fifties hauling them into a car. No way.

I once placed my books in a ceder chest to move because I ran out of boxes. Very bad idea. It took two young men AND and a trolly AND bungee cords AND the lift function of the truck AND a lot of time to move that thing. It's the same as moving a refrigerator!

 

[KiwiNZ]

His wife is either brain dead or an assailant IMO.

I would love someone who knew her to confirm if the babbling on the stand was normal for her or an act, it would be helpful in deciding if she was involved or not

 

[Mjjj14]

Exactly. Maria was his Aunty his ‘step brothers’ were his cousins. We have delved into this many times and still come back to the same thing. That’s why he says ‘the mother’ not my mother

Thanks for the clarification. I have not participated in previous discussions on this topic (despite being an active member of this forum and this case on WS since 2019) but I do recall learning about the family history after the last sitting of the inquest. I do wish to note he said THE mother again yesterday, it’s something that you’d think he would make an active attempt to correct in circumstances where police and others have access to records on these topics. MOO.

 

[KateM]

My thoughts: He chose her new name. I can see him saying something like “you’re my Florabella” in one of his creepy notes or just in person. And then convinced her to change her name to that because it suits her and blahblahblah. Totally romantic. He wanted to have her initials and his initials to match (FD Ramakel). I can also see him saying something like “oh, I sent this over the phone they must have mistaken Florabella for Ferdinand” or some other bs. Or just telling her to use FD for one reason or another.

I’m completely on the fence about whether the tea chests existing or not. It seems to fit the con pattern. But at the same time anything even tangentially related to Marion he seems to lie through his teeth about… I absolutely can’t see him having them in his family home, or even allowing Marion to know where his family lived. It’s just too dangerous IMO. What if she drives by and sees his kids/wife? Or sees something inside/outside that points to their existence? I can’t help but wonder if there was a secondary location we haven’t heard about/hasn’t been discovered that he was using for his “homebase”. Something off books that he was renting with cash.

I still think his wife was aware of his cons. She just didn’t care. So long as she had nice things (and I’d put money on some of those nice things being stolen). I wish we had earlier pictures of her, because I think she withdrew money as Marion in Byron Bay.

What’s amazing to me is I feel like, even after all his testimony, we still don’t know who this man is. Was he really Willy Wooters? Was he injured? Or did he just steal that identity too?

I believe his wife knew of his cons too. Maybe not all of them, but surely she must of been well aware of many of them...

 

[KiwiNZ]

Thanks for posting that All this time, I was imaging something quite different, like a tea table you can put things inside, heheheee.

So it's essentially a wooden crate for packing.

I imagine that IF Marion packed belongings in such a crate, the contents would be very expensive and fragile. Like fine china. And the journey would be far. It would make no sense to pack anything else in there for a reasonably short trip.

There is zero percent chance a 'little old man' would be able to move a few crates like that filled with books. Or even a portly pilot in his fifties hauling them into a car. No way.

I once placed my books in a ceder chest to move because I ran out of boxes. Very bad Idea. It took two young men AND and a trolly AND bungee cords AND the lift function of the truck AND a lot of time to move that thing. It's the same as moving a refrigerator!

The only thing that rings true to me in the whole story was that he didn't offer to help carry it lol

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Marion Barter Inquest Day Twelve

Friday 29th April 2022

10am AEST (Australian Eastern Standard Time)

 

[Meligator]

He didn’t ask any other women to change their names and the other women didn’t seem to have any pressure to keep their relationship with him private. I suspect the secrecy may have been Marion’s idea—not wanting to be accused of entering into another relationship too quickly. As for the name, it’s very confusing. Marion is also the only person we know of who went as far along in actually selling her home and having a bank full of money. Maybe those women hadn’t reached the “name change” part of the scheme.

 

[othervee]

I know I am in the minority here, but I still think MB's name change was not instigated by RB. The Remakel name was a link back to RB whatever his plan was, and as her bank accounts were in the name of MB, they could not be accessed with her FNMR passport, thereby necessitating a trip back to Aus. IMO MB's name change sealed her fate.

I also think this. It's a very romantic, idealised thing to do and I can totally see Marion doing it. There's an older lady in my immediate family who did the same thing, legally changed her name to match someone she was in love with and thought she had a life together with. She thought it was a romantic thing that showed her dedication to him; he immediately got cold feet and they split. This was also in Qld and around the same time.

 

[gymtonic]

Thanks for posting that All this time, I was imaging something quite different, like a tea table you can put things inside, heheheee.

So it's essentially a wooden crate for packing.

I imagine that IF Marion packed belongings in such a crate, the contents would be very expensive and fragile. Like fine china. And the journey would be far. It would make no sense to pack anything else in there for a reasonably short trip.

There is zero percent chance a 'little old man' would be able to move a few crates like that filled with books. Or even a portly pilot in his fifties hauling them into a car. No way.

I once placed my books in a ceder chest to move because I ran out of boxes. Very bad Idea. It took two young men AND and a trolly AND bungee cords AND the lift function of the truck AND a lot of time to move that thing. It's the same as moving a refrigerator!

Indeed! I have used tea chests to move overseas from Europe, but any moves from Australia have never used tea chests as containers (which is why I immediately thought it was a past memory being incorporated into an excuse…confirmed yesterday by his aside about « beek »!). I have also moved offices using ‘tea-chest’ sized cardboard storage boxes full of books and they are v v heavy. Genuine removalists would use a trolley and 2 people to move them. Non- removalists would injure themselves!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

So RB is either using a 'tea chest' memory from another con, possibly in Europe, or Marion's china was intended to go overseas. IMO

 

[VisitorDog]

I wonder if the name change was what made her situation different to the other women. If she was the one that decided to change her name, maybe this was a problem for him, linking her to him, and then whatever happened happened because of that - as in the situation then had to be ‘controlled.’

Without the name change, he would never have been linked to her disappearance now?

 

[KateM]

I also think this. It's a very romantic, idealised thing to do and I can totally see Marion doing it. There's an older lady in my immediate family who did the same thing, legally changed her name to match someone she was in love with and thought she had a life together with. She thought it was a romantic thing that showed her dedication to him; he immediately got cold feet and they split. This was also in Qld and around the same time.

I don't think Marion would have changed her name without his consent though, even if she did initiate it. I lean towards him suggesting it. He stood to gain a lot financially through Marion and wanted her to believe that he was going to marry her. Maybe they did in fact get married overseas?

 

[VisitorDog]

I think perhaps she didn’t know he was married and it was a ‘run away with me’ type scenario. I do wonder where the other victims of his likely crimes are though - there must be more, which is concerning. We only really know about his failed attempts, and presumably, Marion. There aren’t really great pictures of him out there. And considering his prolific use of names, even the news coverage might not alert other prior victims.

 

[VisitorDog]

I don't think Marion would have changed her name without his consent though, even if she did initiate it. I lean towards him suggesting it. He stood to gain a lot financially through Marion and wanted her to believe that he was going to marry her. Maybe they did in fact get married overseas?

I wonder whether it would have been important to Marion to appear to be married if they were traveling and staying together? Hence perhaps her wanting to change her name. He didn’t seem to try that with the other women we know about, so perhaps she preempted it, if he was promising her marriage anyway.

 

[KateM]

I wonder whether it would have been important to Marion to appear to be married if they were traveling and staying together? Hence perhaps her wanting to change her name. He didn’t seem to try that with the other women we know about, so perhaps she preempted it, if he was promising her marriage anyway.

I don't know why, but if that's the case, it makes me think that Marion was aware that he was married.

 

[othervee]

He didn’t ask any other women to change their names and the other women didn’t seem to have any pressure to keep their relationship with him private. I suspect the secrecy may have been Marion’s idea—not wanting to be accused of entering into another relationship too quickly. As for the name, it’s very confusing. Marion is also the only person we know of who went as far along in actually selling her home and having a bank full of money. Maybe those women hadn’t reached the “name change” part of the scheme.

I think you're correct about the secrecy. RB has always just relied on the frequent name changes and general casual vagueness/nonspecificity of his words to ensure his victims couldn't track him down again. He's lazy and doesn't do more than he needs to do, he's not a criminal mastermind. Marion's relationship with her family and her reputation as 'marryin' Marion' would have made her very unwilling to make a big deal about this new relationship until it was certain.

 

[VisitorDog]

I don't know why, but if that's the case, it makes me think that Marion was aware that he was married.

Yes possibly, and why she may have been secretive about it? Wanting it all to be ‘happily resolved’ before making it known?

In my happy imaginary other universe, the Netflix show version, she was the one who eventually scammed him after realizing what his plans were, because she had the same name as him and was able to drive off into the sunset. Of course I know that’s not what happened and not the type of person she was, but it would be poetic justice for him to have had a taste of his own medicine.

 

[Whonose]

"The name that I was wearing at the time"

Excuse me for a moment while I slip into a more comfortable name...

Despite the seriousness of finding Marion, and no disrespect intended at all, but there are some very giggle worthy comments on here

 

[gymtonic]

"The name that I was wearing at the time"
LOL

Excuse me for a moment while I slip into a more comfortable name...

Again I can’t decide if this is a genuine or affected ESL quirk. On the genuine side « porter un nom » is the French expression for saying « to have or bear a name » but porter is also used in the sense of wearing clothes. It did make it sound like each new alias was a character he was playing.

 

[BonnieB]

Despite the seriousness of finding Marion, and no disrespect intended at all, but there are some very giggle worthy comments on here

I think after many hours/months/years of sleuthing with our heads buried in archives and google searches trying to solve this awful mystery, a little lightheartedness at HIS expense is warranted.