Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[ruby925]

I suspect that Marion bought her own airline ticket as she did not claim she was poor as JO did and was apparently.

I also wonder if Immigration officials are not so strict when you arrive by ferry from Europe as it is not your first entry into Europe. Was the UK part of the European Union in 1997?

UK joined the EU in the seventies, but it was a very different organization by the nineties. Imo the ferry arrival would have been easier re immigration, but I have no personal experience of that in the nineties.

 

[centred]

Does anyone remember when the tamborine property was sold, I've searched here but can't find it.

Trying to go to sleep and I thought I'd do some boring reading about Marie currie, she died in a sanatorium in passy. So then I Googled a little more and found a cemetery where some notable people are buried called passe.

The thing I found was a ref to old passe was a cemetery on the same spot that they built a new one.....

And now I'm back here and still not sleeping

I am not 100% when but i think they has it in the early days maybe 70 s because i remeber he raved on about why he has to sell it because it was only a block and the rates and costs for eradication were to high and he also claimed he had to come back to Australia while they were over seas to clean the land up from the weeds etc ....sorry i cannot recall the times he mentioned when they finally sold but i thought perhaps it was the first land they owned and sold it to finance the house in Tasmania

 

[Estelle]

Why is everyone so cynical?
Often if I go into a small hotel an insatiable woman walks up to me in the foyer and tells me she is lonely and takes me straight to he room. Gee I don't even have to buy her a drink or meal first.
Whenever I go to Sydney town hall a drug crazed exhibitionist will often take me home and she forces me to take naked photos of her. Fortunately the religious cult she is a member of know about this (I don't know how) and turn up to take away the camera.
But be warned the worst of all are 51 year old belly dancers you meet in RSL car parks. They belly dance naked and bewitch you and make you take them overseas with all your money.
Luckily there are women who place lovely hearts adds that don't mind you are married with kids, on a disability pension, have no money or car. Some times these women turn out to be an insatiable woman you met in a hotel 50 years ago. They don't even ask why you have a different name.
What all the fuss about.

Brilliant! I laughed out loud as that is his ridiculous story!

 

[Estelle]

Oh wait, I got my first computer in early 1992, but then there were no isps around until 1994. Apart from the Uni.

So a false memory from me of getting my computer in 1994, it was 1992. I did get online in 1992 but it was the World Wide Web then and you used things like Lynx, Newsgroups and Bulletin Boards.

It was really something I couldn't talk about with friends, they'd just stare at me blankly LOL.

I also think that I may have had a computer earlier too (possibly 1993) as I was a Teacher in Business Studies at TAFE and used to type up my lesson notes. I had one in my office and also at home. I know I didn't use a typewriter.

 

[Estelle]

who looks at our traveling companions passports ? especially ones we don't actually fly with

Correct if alone but if we fly with someone else, they check both people into together when you are likely to see the other passport.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

i don't understand did we not already see documents with multiple names and passports ?
i have been under some sort if delusion in that case

He's had many different passports, at different times.
He likely gets a new passport every time he legally changes his name.
As far as we know, he doesn't get a new passport every time he creates a new alias.
We never seen him have multiple passports, in different names, at the same time.

Actually, there is just one instance... when he was arrested as Roger Lauzoney from Morocco and they found his Aus FDdH passport on him as well.

But otherwise, when he's travelled, we only know of him travelling on the passports that matched whatever legal name he was using at that time.

 

[Zanzibar]

Why is everyone so cynical?
Often if I go into a small hotel an insatiable woman walks up to me in the foyer and tells me she is lonely and takes me straight to he room. Gee I don't even have to buy her a drink or meal first.
Whenever I go to Sydney town hall a drug crazed exhibitionist will often take me home and she forces me to take naked photos of her. Fortunately the religious cult she is a member of know about this (I don't know how) and turn up to take away the camera.
But be warned the worst of all are 51 year old belly dancers you meet in RSL car parks. They belly dance naked and bewitch you and make you take them overseas with all your money.
Luckily there are women who place lovely hearts adds that don't mind you are married with kids, on a disability pension, have no money or car. Some times these women turn out to be an insatiable woman you met in a hotel 50 years ago. They don't even ask why you have a different name.
What all the fuss about.

Standing ovation. Puts the perfect context around it.

 

[Estelle]

i don't understand did we not already see documents with multiple names and passports ?
i have been under some sort if delusion in that case

You are correct. IMO RB could have had several different passports in different names with different expiry dates for five or ten years each overlapping so he would have had a choice of which one to use at any time.

 

[Estelle]

No it was said in one of the threads before that she changed her name to Barter, prior to marrying.

What was Sally's maiden name? I don't think Marion was married when Sally was born, was she?

 

[centred]

I had a home computer in the 90’s and used to email my mother and father who where in their 60’s at the time. We also used to email friends in Ireland and the UK at the time. Not everyone had them but a lot I knew did.

I thought we had put the issue to bed , i admit some business sectors had them , i am not saying they were not in existence ( I even have a vintage transparent Apple " ) They were not the "norm " in households as i said and my comment was in a certain context . And a business was not dependent on them . So much has changed re technology and practices . I remember being able to walk into a bank with my checque in a contract business and the bank gave me cash , I paid all my employees in cash ,we all did it and some still do i guess in a more sophisticated way and none of it is illegal I could go on but very different times and only the beginning for Australia in the timeline of advances which continue to accelerate . so i still maintain they were no where near the norm

And please no one tag me about the issue again ..many have kept the discussion going

I am not prepared to eat my hat tho

 

[ruby925]

I suspect that Marion bought her own airline ticket as she did not claim she was poor as JO did and was apparently.

I also wonder if Immigration officials are not so strict when you arrive by ferry from Europe as it is not your first entry into Europe. Was the UK part of the European Union in 1997?

UK joined the EU in the seventies, but it was a very different organization by the nineties. Imo the ferry arrival would have been easier re immigration, but I have no personal experience of that in the nineties.

He's had many different passports, at different times.
He likely gets a new passport every time he legally changes his name.
As far as we know, he doesn't get a new passport every time he creates a new alias.
We never seen him have multiple passports, in different names, at the same time.

Actually, there is just one instance... when he was arrested as Roger Lauzoney from Morocco and they found his Aus FDdH passport on him as well.

But otherwise, when he's travelled, we only know of him travelling on the passports that matched whatever legal name he was using at that time.

I thought the Roger Lauzoney ID was a driving licence, because it reminded me of the Remakel licence ID.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I have roughly the same theory except I believe Marion found and confronted him before he had time to start withdrawing her money. IMO Marion died between 3rd and 10th October in NSW. The 'disposable' car was then needed to hide Marion's body and then to extract her money. When everything was complete, loose ends cut, the car was sold. Nice and tidy except for that 'unexpected' Remakel surname. And he almost got away with it!

I have some questions...
Money started being withdrawn Aug-Sept.
They were $5K daily withdrawals in Byron for 3.5 weeks, and 3 days in the middle in Burleigh Heads.
So do you think she was making these withdrawals?
Byron wasn't her regular branch (Ashmore was), and is 1-1.5 hrs drive from where she used to live.
Where was she staying while in Byron?
And why would she withdraw her money there, for two whole months before she confronted him?
Where was she storing all these withdrawals and what was she planning to do with is?

 

[ruby925]

What was Sally's maiden name? I don't think Marion was married then, was she?

I thought Sally was born Brown and Marion assumed surname Brown to match Sally, although Marion wasn't married at the time.

 

[Nnbee]

Does Australia keep records of outgoing containers from the 1990s? I wonder if they can run his 30+ alias now to see if Marions container full of furniture ever left here for an address in Europe?

 

[Lokii]

First time using this site, I have been asked to share the following in regards to what's happening at the moment,
Hi Elaine
If you would like to let them know the name on the QLD Drivers License is
Fernand Nocolas REMAKEL
it’s been noted a few times that he does change vowels

Hi and welcome. May I ask who it was that asked you to share this info?

 

[centred]

Why is everyone so cynical?
Often if I go into a small hotel an insatiable woman walks up to me in the foyer and tells me she is lonely and takes me straight to he room. Gee I don't even have to buy her a drink or meal first.
Whenever I go to Sydney town hall a drug crazed exhibitionist will often take me home and she forces me to take naked photos of her. Fortunately the religious cult she is a member of know about this (I don't know how) and turn up to take away the camera.
But be warned the worst of all are 51 year old belly dancers you meet in RSL car parks. They belly dance naked and bewitch you and make you take them overseas with all your money.
Luckily there are women who place lovely hearts adds that don't mind you are married with kids, on a disability pension, have no money or car. Some times these women turn out to be an insatiable woman you met in a hotel 50 years ago. They don't even ask why you have a different name.
What all the fuss about.

hahahahaha priceless

 

[Lokii]

Why is everyone so cynical?
Often if I go into a small hotel an insatiable woman walks up to me in the foyer and tells me she is lonely and takes me straight to he room. Gee I don't even have to buy her a drink or meal first.
Whenever I go to Sydney town hall a drug crazed exhibitionist will often take me home and she forces me to take naked photos of her. Fortunately the religious cult she is a member of know about this (I don't know how) and turn up to take away the camera.
But be warned the worst of all are 51 year old belly dancers you meet in RSL car parks. They belly dance naked and bewitch you and make you take them overseas with all your money.
Luckily there are women who place lovely hearts adds that don't mind you are married with kids, on a disability pension, have no money or car. Some times these women turn out to be an insatiable woman you met in a hotel 50 years ago. They don't even ask why you have a different name.
What all the fuss about.

Hahaha! This. LOL

 

[gymtonic]

good find! Which company was this?

I found it, but now think I was perhaps drawing a long bow with a link. The name was Dorothea Maslowska and It was a post by @Eyespywithmylittleeye for this company:

CORDEMANS ET Cie (BVBA)
Private limited liability company • Founded 27/12/1984 • Closed 24/12/2003

rue des Francs 46, 1040 Etterbeek

BE 0426.659.844

I can’t find a connection though, Albert Cordemans resigned and Dorothea Maslowska is appointed from 1/7 2001

then 23-12/2003 the company goes into liquidation. Document says something about the last tax and other obligations will still need to be repaid and handled by Albert Cordeman (at the same address) and that he will retain and assume custody of the company’s books and documents. Cordemans Et Cie will cease to exist subject to its passive existence for a period of 5 years.

 

[buyerninety]

Marion's possible timeline
Applying JOs experience to Marion...

Marion ships her belongings to RB's house as he offered to store her things until they return from their trip.
When she returns to Aus, she intends to buy a much smaller apartment by the water (she told Sally this once).

Once in the UK, RB tells Marion to place unneeded bags in Heathrow storage.
He tells her to leave all her Aus paperwork in there so it won't get stolen.
It includes her birth certificate, medicare, drivers licence, Aus bankcard and jewellery.
She only keeps her passport and Barclays card.

They hire a car and make stops as per postcards.
As usual, RB doesn't do much touristy stuff and sights seeing.
So Marion is bored and confused, but has plenty of time to wander around on her own and write postcards.
RB tells her they can't go on the Orient Express because he has business to do.

He checks her into an accommodation and leaves her alone for a few days.
He then calls Marion and claims he was robbed and is recovering in hospital for a few weeks.
In reality, he's back at Heathrow, taking Marion's bag full of clothes and documents.
He returns to Aus with the intention of leaving Marion stranded in the UK.
It's OK, she as $20k to get by on and she'll never find him upon her return because he isn't really FR.

His plan is, if Marion ever calls police, they'll confuse FR/Aus for FR/Lux (hence Lux lies on passenger cards)
It's great because he hates FR/Lux because he was MCs husband and RB is still infatuated with MC.
It's spiteful payback, essentially.

Marion, still in the UK, is suddenly very suspicious after RB's last phone call.
She suspect's he went back to Aus without her and that he might be trying to fleece her.

She calls Sally, and tells her she'll be busy for a while and to not expect contact.
She doesn't tell Sally the truth because she feels ashamed by how much this man tricked her.
She's also not 100% convinced? She wants to see him face-to-face. She wants to take care of it herself.
Marion buys herself a plane ticket and returns to Aus.

Back in Aus, RB starts withdrawing Marion's cash with the intention of disappearing.
He chose Byron because he knows a teller who accepts bribes.
Occasionally this teller works at Burleigh Heads and Ashmore.
RB and wife buy a car to make all the trips to the bank in a car no-one recognises as theirs.

Marion finds RB, she wants to call the police but there's a confrontation.
They use the car to make to make Marion disappear.
They have to sell the car now.

But if 'Marion ships her belongings to RB's house'
isn't this inconsistent with 'she'll never find him
upon her return because he isn't really FR.'
Shouldn't there be a wrinkle where he ships her
belongings (in AUS) to somewhere else like a
rented apartment (under a false name) which he
empties and vacates when he returns to AUS and
she is still overseas?

Also, I don't see the car is needed for the bank
visits (no bank teller is going to wander outside
to watch someone driving away) anyway, why
park near the bank at all? Is this the same car that
was brought for the daughter? The daughter car,
I thought, was just a car for her and for RB to
have a spare car (yes, possibly to use in scams)
but I would have thought RB would put that car
in the daughters name so he wouldn't have to
declare it as his or his wife's asset on any
Centrelink(=social security) claim form.

Any info on that car(s)? (which if it/they still
exist, the police will hopefully find and luminol
the heck out of the inside spaces of it).

EDIT; from the post after (below) mine;
Estelle said;
"he pushes her over the cliff and her body has
never been found".
Yes, sadly, just as possible, so then with no
blood to be found anywhere.

 

[Estelle]

I have roughly the same theory except I believe Marion found and confronted him before he had time to start withdrawing her money. IMO Marion died between 3rd and 10th October in NSW. The 'disposable' car was then needed to hide Marion's body and then to extract her money. When everything was complete, loose ends cut, the car was sold. Nice and tidy except for that 'unexpected' Remakel surname. And he almost got away with it!

"I have roughly the same theory except I believe Marion found and confronted him before he had time to start withdrawing her money. IMO Marion died between 3rd and 10th October in NSW"

My theory on when Marion met her demise. Marion (if she did return) stayed at the Novotel. RB catches up with Marion there. His goal is to make sure he has all the paper work in order to make the transactions otherwise Marion is not needed any more as he can bribe the bank teller and his wife can act as Marion. He cannot rely on Marion not telling anyone that she has returned. So he takes Marion in his other car to a secluded place he says he has booked for her because he tells her it is too expensive to keep staying at a hotel. This hotel happens to be close to a cliff looking over water. So he suggests they take a romantic walk one night and he pushes her over the cliff and her body has never been found. All the other communications that are reported by Marion afterwards are made by DdH on the phone (or in person) pretending to be Marion to make everyone think she is still alive and wants to start a fresh life including the use of the Medicare card at Grafton.
IMO