Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

[sleuther123]

Tracking people by Mobile is accurate down to some low tens of metres, and possible even more accurate.
I just looked at the mobile coverage data for the area where the bodies were buried.
According to the maps, Vodaphone has the best coverage; Telstra the next and Optus last. However, if the person in this area had roaming turned on then in would be possible to obtain quite accurate movement data. Additionally, if the person had a satellite phone turned on that too can provide location data.
When earlier searches were done, it involved an entire road, such as the Cynthia. But this was exceedingly specific: 20m square.
There are two options, I think:
1. the accused provided the detail.
2. after arrest and police seizure of vehicle, phone, tablet and so on (inc. say a fitbit or smart watch), it would show movement down to the metre.

Thank you, this is so interesting! So could be either option really..
I’d imagine that equipment would’ve been turned off at some point and that an old car wouldn’t have a computer installed. If someone had navigational knowledge (such as an aerobus driver, just as a theoretical example) they would know what to do… But I know even with that, clues can still be left!

JMSuggestion..

 

[crhedBngr]

My husband is able to scrape the topsoil off clear ground a centimeter at a time, the operators can be quite skillful and gentle. That said, they may have used the excavator just to move some of the undergrowth to open up the area.

Impressive!

JMVHO.

 

[JBowie]

I doubt it went interstate because all the borders have been shut for a very long time during the last 18 months. I know I wouldn’t have gone through the hassle of getting an interstate travel permit just to buy a cheap trailer. JMO.

Given that it's a simple 2 wheel box trailer, I also doubt anyone would drive into VIC just to buy it, but people do move around and often use trailers in the process. Border closures are a consideration, but I guess at this stage nothing is out of the question.

If it were sold thorough Gumtree then I feel pretty sure that police could track any such transaction as long as Gumtree's archive extends back to that period.

And I would have though that if (?) police are asking the public to come forward if they bought second hand box trailer during the period that someone would have done so by now.

OTOH, yes, it may have been hidden/dumped/destroyed. Could be sitting on the bottom of a lake.

 

[KathPlumber]

Interview with John Silvester on 3AW about this case. I haven’t listened.

What’s the alleged motive? Sly answers key questions on campers case — 3AW Breakfast with Ross and Russel — Overcast

 

[JayWill]

Interview with John Silvester on 3AW about this case. I haven’t listened.

What’s the alleged motive? Sly answers key questions on campers case — 3AW Breakfast with Ross and Russel — Overcast

Wow.

 

[JayWill]

I have so much sympathy for the families of the victims, and particularly for Mrs Hill. I also have a lot of sympathy for GK's family, especially as they may also receive some unwarranted criticism, and much less sympathy than the other families.

Who is GK?

 

[Satchie]

Here is a brain teaser, fellow WebSleuths. [But people with local knowledge like Motomile and Brumby Jack, will likely know the answer.]
Teaser: Where, in the Union Spur-Providence Spur tracks, is the burial site? See map with A,B, C marked.
Erin Pearson says the site is a 20-metre-square area on the Union Spur Track near the Providence Spur Track.
In her article, Ms Pearson provides a photo showing the Providence Spur sign, pointing right and in the background, a blue police gazebo and police car. [Photo below]
In her article Ms Pearson also provides a video, that shows the excavation. It is also on her twitter. If you look at the video, on the LHS appears to be a blue police gazebo. [Screenshot below]
In a video on youtube, 10 News (time: 1.30) shows the same Providence Spur sign, this time pointing left. It is the same sign as in Ms Pearsons article. However, we can also see a portaloo, to the right of the sign. The portaloo may well not have been there when the photo in Ms Pearson's article was taken.
Also in this video, is a shot of the excavation scene and just visible on the LHS, circled, is a white gazebo.
In a Ch.9 video, also on youtube, we can see an aerial shot that shows the portaloo on the left and the blue Police gazebo on the upper right and a second, white one.
It seems that the sign is at point A in the map; the portaloo at point B and the blue police gazebo at point C.
We do not know if all these photos are of the same site. However apart from the Ch.9 and Ch.10, there is a Ch.7 video, also on youtube (at 1.50) which seems to show the white gazebo.
a lot of this footage has been taken from, it seems a single source and shared by the TV stations.
The question is: where is the burial site? First issue is whether all these videos and photos pertain to the one site. Police were excavating in several areas. There are in some photos a blue and white gazebo and at other times only a blue or only a white.
Second, the gazebos have to be on the RHS, unless the map is not accurate in its alignment of roads and point C is further to the left. That would mean the burial site is below A. It does not seem possible for the site to be on Providence spur, as that is a dead end and in two videos a vehicle is running towards the excavation site. As well, reports have stated the site is on the Union Spur track.
The other puzzle is the location. Why not drive up the Providence Spur - that is very private. Or turn the corner, swing right, into the next section of the Union Spur? That also afford some privacy for the task.
Any thoughts?
I am leaning at the moment to the site being below A.

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That is a brain teaser, thanks for putting that together!

I agree the sign must be somewhere along that approach to the T intersection, where you need to turn right to get to Providence track.

It seems that's already some kind of parking area, to be able to have two cruisers and the tent set up off the track. So I think that was chosen for convenience as the rest area.

Whereas the track photographed with the bulldozer seems more typical, no parking on the side. I think the single tent is probably a different one, set up for evidence collection.

The bulldozer does seem to be at a spot where the track turns to the left sharpish.

ETA: meant to add, wouldn't he want to avoid another dead end, and having to do another 30-40 point turn?

 

[Awakening]

Given that it's a simple 2 wheel box trailer, I also doubt anyone would drive into VIC just to buy it, but people do move around and often use trailers in the process. Border closures are a consideration, but I guess at this stage nothing is out of the question.

If it were sold thorough Gumtree then I feel pretty sure that police could track any such transaction as long as Gumtree's archive extends back to that period.

And I would have though that if (?) police are asking the public to come forward if they bought second hand box trailer during the period that someone would have done so by now.

OTOH, yes, it may have been hidden/dumped/destroyed. Could be sitting on the bottom of a lake.

It does seem odd that the police haven't or can't find the trailer if it was sold on gumtree.

A bit like when they asked the public to find the unaccounted driver of the nissan patrol when they'd already spoken to GL and very likely the camera captured the plate or a search through vic roads would of found it.

So I wonder if they are trying to get information from people that may have seen the ad and spoken to GL or even went to inspect the trailer.

Or GL is claiming it was sold on gumtree but police don't believe that because they've been looking for it for 20 months and have found no trace.

By putting out this public alert they can apply more pressure to GL that no one has come forward and gumtree have no record of it so tell us what you did with it.

 

[sleuther123]

Interview with John Silvester on 3AW about this case. I haven’t listened.

What’s the alleged motive? Sly answers key questions on campers case — 3AW Breakfast with Ross and Russel — Overcast

Wow! This answers a lot of our questions! Thanks KathPlumber

Although, does anyone know how much of what this journalist is saying would be speculative and how much is from police intel..?

 

[wary]

Who is GK?

Typo for GL. The initials in this case seem to be extremely difficult, for some reason. This is the third set that’s not quite right.

MOO, as always.

 

[JBowie]

Wow! This answers a lot of our questions! Thanks KathPlumber

Although, does anyone know how much of what this journalist is saying would be speculative and how much is from police intel..?

John Sylvester, whose father was a senior cop, and who has written much on crime over his long career, would be on social terms with many police. If anyone might have the "good oil" on local crimes, it would be JS.

 

[sleuther123]

T

John Sylvester, whose father was a senior cop, and who has written much on crime over his long career, would be on social terms with many police. If anyone might have the "good oil" on local crimes, it would be JS.

Thank you, seemed like it, but always verifying.

 

[they'll get you]

Given that it's a simple 2 wheel box trailer, I also doubt anyone would drive into VIC just to buy it, but people do move around and often use trailers in the process. Border closures are a consideration, but I guess at this stage nothing is out of the question.

If it were sold thorough Gumtree then I feel pretty sure that police could track any such transaction as long as Gumtree's archive extends back to that period.

And I would have though that if (?) police are asking the public to come forward if they bought second hand box trailer during the period that someone would have done so by now.

OTOH, yes, it may have been hidden/dumped/destroyed. Could be sitting on the bottom of a lake.

He could’ve sold it for scrap and had it crushed

 

[Detective Willy]

Interview with John Silvester on 3AW about this case. I haven’t listened.

What’s the alleged motive? Sly answers key questions on campers case — 3AW Breakfast with Ross and Russel — Overcast

Thanks for sharing this KathPlumber.

Indications are they want to prod a bit deeper into GLs past - like many of us have suspected they want to know who GL really is. Fascinating..

 

[they'll get you]

I heard today he didn’t request bail.

 

[SouthAussie]

I heard today he didn’t request bail.

IIRC in Victoria they have to apply to the Supreme Court for bail in murder cases.


ETA (add link)
When bail is refused by the police, the accused has the right to make an application for bail to the court.
If the charge is murder, the Supreme Court must hear the bail application.
Bail Application & Conditions Victoria - Leanne Warren & Associates

 

[JBowie]

He could’ve sold it for scrap and had it crushed

Yes he could have but, if it were in operational condition, then I think anyone asked to crush it would remember that. It's just not the sort of thing I would expect anyone to do. In my experience, box trailers are usually valued, even if they are half falling apart.

 

[SouthAussie]

Interview with John Silvester on 3AW about this case. I haven’t listened.

What’s the alleged motive? Sly answers key questions on campers case — 3AW Breakfast with Ross and Russel — Overcast

Thanks for posting.

So, he thinks that police would have been clearly onto GL about a month ago, when police had Russell's and Carol's relatives do their public appeal.
He also thinks that the police were told a specific area to search for the remains. It was so specific, as opposed to their broader searches in previous months.
He feels the police theory is a chance meeting, with an assault and a cover up.

He feels GL did not give a 'No Comment' interview, otherwise the interview would not have gone for 3 days.

 

[Kemug]

Who is GK?

So sorry, I meant GL!

 

[KathPlumber]

Hi Everyone,

I’m glad you found the link to the John Silvester interview interesting. I still haven’t actually had time to listen! I do find that JS sometimes speculates a bit. I remember when CS was found in Carnarvon he was on 3AW the next day speculating in the abscence of anything concrete ie. the police obviously knew where she was for a while and were planning a bust, when in the end it transpired it all happened that afternoon to evening fairly rapidly. On the other hand he knows VicPol much better and has connections.

along with Andrew Rule, he was one of the 2 main journos involved in drawing attention back to the original disappearance of RH and CC via the articles that mentioned Button Man.
On another note - I have been reading WS faithfully since September 2012 (some people might remember the significance of that time ) but I have only just finally made an account. Long time lurker first time poster.

As always in awe of all of you regular posters!!