Australia Australia - Suzanne Armstrong, 28, Susan Bartlett, 27, Collingwood, Vic, 10 Jan 1977

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I wonder if Greece tipped the Italian police that he was coming their way. Because it is interesting that the Italian detectives were waiting for him.

imo

The o
The moment his aircraft lifted off from Eleftherios, Athens, his name and number would have been registered in Rome and before the plan left the Ionian Sea, the gorgeous Italian Police would have shimmied up for some action. Obviously he was on an Athens/ Rome flight, if he had landed anywhere else, like Zagreb, or Tunis, he would have been picked up there.

He was on a Red List, probably three times, once for Greece, once for Italy ( if he is a citizen, as the proff on the ABC said ) and once for an Australian.

 
Unless his destination was elsewhere and the plane got diverted to Italy.
I see from searching that planes from Greece have been diverted to Rome before.

There was one a couple of weeks ago where a vape became ignited, the plane was diverted to Rome airport.
 
Apologies if this article has already been posted..


Paraphrased:

One of the initial detective's Peter Hiscock ( the other was Graeme McDonald ) explained about the young Greek boy at the time.

He said that a Greek teenager carrying a knife at the time would not be suspicious.

“The Kane brothers [standover men at the time] were driving around in a car, knocking over Greek traders riding on their bicycles to rob them, and so they were carrying knives for protection.”
 
Apologies if this article has already been posted..


Paraphrased:

One of the initial detective's Peter Hiscock ( the other was Graeme McDonald ) explained about the young Greek boy at the time.

He said that a Greek teenager carrying a knife at the time would not be suspicious.

“The Kane brothers [standover men at the time] were driving around in a car, knocking over Greek traders riding on their bicycles to rob them, and so they were carrying knives for protection.”
Weird. PK wasn't a trader, he was a 17-year-old high school student, and he wasn't riding a bicycle--the knife was in the boot of a car. Stopping the car and taking a knife out of the boot in order to stab someone--that doesn't sound like it would qualify for self-defence.

By the way how did it come about that he was driving a car at 17? He could have had a learner's permit, but in that case he should have been accompanied by a licence holder. Was it a family car? I wonder if he's thinking of changing his story about finding the knife. Because the DNA (at the crime scene) presumably equally matches other members of his family. He can say he ran off to Greece so his DNA wouldn't incriminate--someone else.

No, I haven't said that right. All he has to do is give his DNA and if it doesn't exactly match, it's not him. But if he doesn't give it . . . they don't know which of them is the exact match, do they?
 
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Weird. PK wasn't a trader, he was a 17-year-old high school student, and he wasn't riding a bicycle--the knife was in the boot of a car. Stopping the car and taking a knife out of the boot in order to stab someone--that doesn't sound like it would qualify for self-defence.

By the way how did it come about that he was driving a car at 17? He could have had a learner's permit, but in that case he should have been accompanied by a licence holder. Was it a family car? I wonder if he's thinking of changing his story about finding the knife. Because the DNA (at the crime scene) presumably equally matches other members of his family. He can say he ran off to Greece so his DNA wouldn't incriminate--someone else.

No, I haven't said that right. All he has to do is give his DNA and if it doesn't exactly match, it's not him. But if he doesn't give it . . . they don't know which of them is the exact match, do they?
I have to keep reminding myself that we are back in the 70's!

I think back than you could get you L's at 16 & a few months later your P's ????

I could be completely wrong
 
I have to keep reminding myself that we are back in the 70's!

I think back than you could get you L's at 16 & a few months later your P's ????

I could be completely wrong
I thought it was 18 in Victoria back then--Ls earlier, sure--but I could be wrong too. There used to be talk of how kids could start driving and drinking at the same age and it was a bad combination. I'd see on TV American kids driving to school at 16 and it seemed so strange.
 
I wonder if Greece tipped the Italian police that he was coming their way. Because it is interesting that the Italian detectives were waiting for him.

imo


Another reason to take a chance is if someone close to him was near death in Italy.
I have heard of cases where wanted people were caught trying to see their loved one, one last time.

When he checked in from ATH/ROM and then passed through Immigration (as soon as that passport was scanned) an alert would have been immediately sent to the appropriate authority.
 
I have to keep reminding myself that we are back in the 70's!
I think back than you could get you L's at 16 & a few months later your P's ????
I could be completely wrong
Hi @drsleuth,
Like you, I'm not sure about the ".... a few months later your P's", but I absolutely do know driving on Ls without a licensed driver was common *and* many coppers were liberal about the consequences, when & if they nabbed such an offender.
Wiki has a very good page: Driver licences in Australia, with some Vic resources dated back Circa 2012, still digging for anything that pre-dates that.
MOO
 
Hi @drsleuth,
Like you, I'm not sure about the ".... a few months later your P's", but I absolutely do know driving on Ls without a licensed driver was common *and* many coppers were liberal about the consequences, when & if they nabbed such an offender.
Wiki has a very good page: Driver licences in Australia, with some Vic resources dated back Circa 2012, still digging for anything that pre-dates that.
MOO
Thanks, yeah I've looked & looked & had a million tabs open & have given up.....for now

I remember the days when the local cop gave you your license after you drove around the block
 
Thanks, yeah I've looked & looked & had a million tabs open & have given up.....for now

I remember the days when the local cop gave you your license after you drove around the block
I think back then you had to be 18, and I think you still have to be, in Vic.. if anything VIctoria has stiffened it's driving privileges even more, back then you were on P for a year, now it's 4 years, plus 1 year of supervised driving, registered hours of driving in the rain, and stuff like that. So that bit about him in his own car, driving , does not jell with me, in the 1970's....in Melbourne.. there is something missing, or not added into that story. Victoria always has had some of the most restrictive driving requirements in AU, if not the world...

He could not have got his Probationer licence unless he was 18. I am almost sure he could not have got a Learner , either, ... I am pretty sure that's how it worked, unless things radically changed in 1977,, but if they did, Victoria would have only gone for a stiffer change , not looser.

PS, also, I think you had to be off the road by 10pm or something like that..with your P's.//
 
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When he checked in from ATH/ROM and then passed through Immigration (as soon as that passport was scanned) an alert would have been immediately sent to the appropriate authority.
I thought that, too, EM.. that it seemed to me that he had not ventured out of Greece since the whisper of the testing of relatives.. he would have been aware of the risks..if he had , he would have been picked up sooner yet.. here he is, boarding an international flight.. !!! what galvanising incident drove him onto that plane!! I want to know. . . . . .
 
I think back then you had to be 18, and I think you still have to be, in Vic.. if anything VIctoria has stiffened it's driving privileges even more, back then you were on P for a year, now it's 4 years, plus 1 year of supervised driving, registered hours of driving in the rain, and stuff like that. So that bit about him in his own car, driving , does not jell with me, in the 1970's....in Melbourne.. there is something missing, or not added into that story. Victoria always has had some of the most restrictive driving requirements in AU, if not the world...

He could not have got his Probationer licence unless he was 18. I am almost sure he could not have got a Learner , either, ... I am pretty sure that's how it worked, unless things radically changed in 1977,, but if they did, Victoria would have only gone for a stiffer change , not looser.

PS, also, I think you had to be off the road by 10pm or something like that..with your P's.//
I remember those days. Yes you’re right you were required to be 18 to get your drivers license. My children were able to start on their “Ls” at 16 so by the time they reach 18 they have clocked up a truck load of hours and experience. Good grief I remember driving with my girlfriends head of my sunroof drinking champagne out of her shoe whilst driving and not wearing a seat belt !!!!
 
Thanks, yeah I've looked & looked & had a million tabs open & have given up.....for now

I remember the days when the local cop gave you your license after you drove around the block
Yup!
Also, just found: On 1 July 2008, Victoria introduced the Graduated Licensing Systems (GLS). Stage one is a one-year P1 probationary licence (with red P plates). Stage two is a three-year P2 probationary licence (with green P plates)

Source is Wiki again, won't post the link bc previously I did post a Wiki link & it got deleted, so, IF I understand WS Rules correctly, it's not MSM OR I dunno, but, it's easier to just quote *and* MOO, always MOO.

I'm stoked the copper's have nabbed this guy, for Suzanne Armstrong & Susan Bartlett & their family, all loved ones / friends.

Tenacious, determined, dog-with-a-bone, never-give-up coppers - hat's OFF, great job; Thanks!

MOO
 

Some odd little details in this article.. he never married, has no children, ...

'''
Perry left Melbourne in 2017 for Greece. He is a dual Greek-Australian citizen.

Nine Newspapers reported that he left Australia after police asked him for a DNA sample in relation to the case, a process it underwent for several persons of interest. Police also announced a $1m reward in the case in 2017.

Tony said Perry, who was known by the nickname Dingo, was a metalworker. Company records show that he operated a business, AAA Victorian Wrought Iron, from the eastern suburb of Bulleen, and then from Dandenong, since 2003.

Tony said it made no sense to him that Perry would stay in Melbourne for 40 years after the murders if he had been involved.

“If he did something as bad as that he would have moved,” he said.''''
 
Thanks, yeah I've looked & looked & had a million tabs open & have given up.....for now

I remember the days when the local cop gave you your license after you drove around the block

VicRoads - Registration and Licensing says .... Flashback to 1978! At the time, young drivers only had a probationary period of 1 year and there were no green Ps.

It sounds as if, in 1977 at 17 years old, he could have been a P-plater or possibly had a full license. Depending how quickly he passed his Learners Test and got his Ps.
 
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From Tom Priors book called They Trusted Men published 1996, p 40-41


The inquest accepted a similar statement from an absent youth nicknamed "Perry" said by police to be 'in smoke', on the run, to escape burglary charges. 'Perry' had been questioned on other matters some days after the murders, police said. A bloodstained knife with a long blade had been found in a scabbard in the boot of his car, when it was searched by police investigating another matter.

There were traces of A positive blood on the knife, which had been wiped in an attempt to clean it, before being replaced in the scabbard. Suzanne Armstrong's blood was A positive, but this was a blood group shared by a large proportion of the population. There was no trace of Susan Bartlett's O positive blood, also a common blood group, on the knife.

The knife was 26.67cm (10 and 1/2 inches) long and had a handle of tightly bound brown strip plastic with red strips at each end. The brand name 'Mundial' was stamped on the blade. There was a small bend at the tip of the blade which could have been caused by it hitting a solid object such as bone, police said. The knife was almost new and forensic tests showed that it had never been sharpened. There were no serrations or file marks on it whatsoever. It was in a new brown leather sheath, with yellow stitching, which could have been worn on a belt or strapped to a leg.

'Perry', who was questioned exhaustively by police, told them he found the knife near the platform of Victoria Park railway station, on the Hoddle Street side, which would be used by travellers going away from the city, between 10:20pm and 11pm on January 10. This was about 90 minutes after the murdered women were last seen alive and, if the knife was the murder weapon, police theories about the murders happening on January 11 obviously were wrong.

'Perry' had unimpeachable corroboration for the finding of the knife and an unbreakable alibi for the possible time of the murders. At the time, 'Perry' and his companions, who repeated his account of his movements, were either intent on committing, or committing, some of the burglaries with which he was later charged. He had no suspicion of the importance of the bloodstained knife, and would have been extremely unlikely to have thrown it in the boot of his car if he had, police said. He was frightened, 'shocked out of his wits' in fact, when he realised the reason for the intensity of police questioning.
As Stated by police at the time, Perry had an questionable alibi when questioned by police his companions who were burglars we're doing a burglary at the time if this is a lie who were the companions maybe they're involved as well,?
 
If Perry is a burglar and he had an unquestionable alibi from his companions who also burglars, about doing a crime at the same time the murders were supposed to have happened, I hope we're not getting carried away I hope the police have evidence that we don't know about maybe maybe not, but the phone call from the killer Tess Lawrence if Perry was a burglar he maybe came across the crime a day after broke into the house or walked in and had sex with a dead body....... Because he couldn't control his hormones because police did state at the time he had unquenchable alibi
 
It could be that the police have since gathered definitive DNA from Kouroumblis. He may have fled in 2017 when they asked for his DNA, but that doesn't mean that they haven't since obtained his DNA through other methods.
Either from something he left behind. Or possibly gathered in Greece, secretly but with a warrant.

Shane Patton seems to think the case is solved.
 

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