Found Alive Australia - Terence Darrell Kelly, charged w/ abduction, 4 y.o. victim found alive, WA ,16 Oct 2021

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Trooper said:
That was me that proposed the theory of grandma and the house. In some circumstances, renters of Govt housing can buy the house, on a special rate , it was originally meant to make home owners of renters..

It was/ is a Maggie Thatcher idea, where you sell off council housing, and you have a voter base of home owners with a changed outlook. Lots of countries adopted this regime until the consequences of it came home to roost... that is, no money coming in for more council housing. = homelessness.

WA, VIC and NSW do this, I don't know if QLD ever did, or the NT< or Tasmania. It very much depended on the state govt of the day.

It is still called Govt Housing because of the design, and it's location. On a Govt Housing estate, so to speak.

I hope I have cleared that up.
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That’s interesting to know, we call it Council Housing here in Scotland and I believe the Right to Buy was scrapped around 2016 to protect housing stock.
 
PinkPower said:
1. We have plea bargaining but many charges have mandatory minimum sentencing, so we aren't as flexible and prosecutors and judges don't have as much discretion as US folk.

2. Definitely not!



I think it's sad to see a man talk about wanting a family and being a loner and emulating a family through fake profiles.

However, that doesn't mean that he should be allowed in society. Having empathy doesn't lessen the trauma that CS and her parents are enduring.

Our justice system has a focus on rehabilitation, and should never be retributive.

However, when people start excusing the crime because of the sadness they feel for this person - no. <modsnip: Comment on sentencing is a breach of sub judice>
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I think its important to understand the 'why' and have some empathy. He is not the same as a guy who picks up a kid and rapes them in the toilet while breaking their legs and choking them while the brother and uncle are right outside. This happened to a little girl in Perth and a similar incident in Sydney. He is different, he took the kid which was wrong but it seems like he didn't have any intention to hurt her. Since at the moment with the current information it seems that he doesn't hurt kids and hasn't hurt kids...Perhaps if he gets the right help in prison or mental health ward, he could one day be a normal member of society with his own family and his own kids, instead of a fake family on facebook. The punishment should definitely fit the crime and he should not be punished the same as a pedo if he really isn't one. Everything is not as black and white as it seems and I hope this guy receives a lot of help in prison and is able to improve his mental health. Maybe I am just too soft!
 
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PinkPower said:
Agree with you - I think this is baloney. Also, they didn't mention it in their first interview, it came later, and it was highly speculative.
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Yep we got to be careful, I don't know what they pay for stories in Australia, but fairly substantial money is thrown around here in the states, for exclusives that may or may not be embellished.
 
What is a plea bargaining?

"Plea bargaining", in the sense used in North American TV drama's where a prosecuting lawyer and the court negotiate a charge (to honour a deal that might have been struck with the defendant) does not occur in Australia.

However, the prosecution may agree to only pursue a lesser charge (typically in exchange for the accused agreeing to plead guilty to that lesser charge). This is termed "charge bargaining". But, unlike plea bargaining, this does not involve the prosecution attempting to influence the court's view in sentencing.

In the event that you do plead guilty to a lesser offence, the court is under no obligation to reduce a sentence in recognition of a charge bargain, as the court is always under an obligation to act in the public interest.
 
Trmtrm2 said:
I also wonder why they guy who channel 7 messed up with wrong identity threatened speared in a traditional Aboriginal punishment

<modsnip>: 'Terry Kelly' who is wrongly identified as suspected kidnapper threatened with SPEARING | Daily Mail Online

But the real Terry Kelly doesn't seem to be publicly threatened with traditional aboriginal punishment

It seems his people hav turned their backs on him
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It's because of the (possible) mental illness aspect. I'm positive this guy came into my work a few times (this was about a decade ago) and the locals who knew him were extremely wary of him which was unusual because everyone in the town generally got along.
 
Trmtrm2 said:
Im just thinking he has the option pleading guilty then that would be no trial?

Or the option pleading not guilty then a trial (he was caught red handed would be hard to plead not guilty) but what if he pleading not guilty due to mental illness would their be a trail?

Or would they not even get to a trial if because of mental illness he isn't fit

Basically im trying to understand will it even get to a trial if he has mental illness
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He can plead not guilty. As it happens, it's 10/1 that his barrister will advise him to plead not guilty. It is what Barristers do. And there are many reasons why this should be so, not least because, as long as his plea is not guilty , he remains on remand, that is, in the Remand centre where things go a bit easier, you can have your smokes, and see friends, and write letters, and have phone calls, and you are not among the General Population of the prison , who may want to shirtfront you.

Most times, statistically, these trials suddenly have a change of plea the day before the trial starts..

If he pleads not guilty due mental incapacity, he has to prove that, and he is up against a prosecutor who will dispute that, and his level of incapacity will be judged by the jury, not the bloke himself. Him just saying it doesn't make it so.

If he is so mentally unfit that he cannot take advice from his Barrister, NOR give the Barrister rational instructions, then it's off to the psyche ward until he can. Which may be in a year, maybe never, and there will not be a trial until he is capable of (a) following the advice, (b) giving instructions and (c) following any directions the judge may give ..

Who decides when he is mentally capable? the people who are designated as his medical guardians. I am pretty sure the court cannot make that decision, of itself. It is a matter for adjudication , and medical guardianship.

If he pleads guilty, the general public still gets to know what he did, where he did it, how he did it, because the judge will have to go thru, publicly, every element of the crime and the sentence proclaimed will be based on every element of that crime, in sequence, either consecutively, or consequently. This statement is made by the judge at sentencing. Always , a public moment.
 
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I can see we're going to learn much about the Australian legal system in this case! How typical is it to deny bail? How does all of that work in Australia? And how will Terence be represented? It was said he lived in a housing project so I'm guessing legal representation is free for those with financial constraints? And how will the S family have to give any statements?
 
iheartsm said:
It's because of the (possible) mental illness aspect. I'm positive this guy came into my work a few times (this was about a decade ago) and the locals who knew him were extremely wary of him which was unusual because everyone in the town generally got along.
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An interesting way of the community dealing with him. I am curious about this whole aspect, since the neighbors left him well alone, not the usual way of going about business in Carnarvon, I 'd bet..

If he was violent, there would be a record and a lot of I told you so's. but I am not getting a lot of that, so would it be fair to say it never got to that point, that the whole ambience was one of the inner voice saying , 'be wary'.. ??
 
Trooper said:
He can plead not guilty. As it happens, it's 10/1 that his barrister will advise him to plead not guilty. It is what Barristers do. And there are many reasons why this should be so, not least because, as long as his plea is not guilty , he remains on remand, that is, in the Remand centre where things go a bit easier, you can have your smokes, and see friends, and write letters, and have phone calls, and you are not among the General Population of the prison , who may want to shirtfront you.

Most times, statistically, these trials suddenly have a change of plea the day before the trial starts..

If he pleads not guilty due mental incapacity, he has to prove that, and he is up against a prosecutor who will dispute that, and his level of incapacity will be judged by the jury, not the bloke himself. Him just saying it doesn't make it so.

If he is so mentally unfit that he cannot take advice from his Barrister, NOR give the Barrister rational instructions, then it's off to the psyche ward until he can. Which may be in a year, maybe never, and there will not be a trial until he is capable of (a) following the advice, (b) giving instructions and (c) following any directions the judge may give ..

Who decides when he is mentally capable? the people who are designated as his medical guardians. I am pretty sure the court cannot make that decision, of itself. It is a matter for adjudication , and medical guardianship.

If he pleads guilty, the general public still gets to know what he did, where he did it, how he did it, because the judge will have to go thru, publicly, every element of the crime and the sentence proclaimed will be based on every element of that crime, in sequence, either consecutively, or consequently. This statement is made by the judge at sentencing. Always , a public moment.
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What is Remand Centre? Is that within the jail or a separate place altogether?
Would his actions in court be interpreted as not being able to follow instructions or directions? When he has outbursts in court does that somehow factor into whether he's fit to stand trial?
 
Trooper said:
His fiscal life. .. he had recently bought a new car. The neighbor remarked upon it. Not a wreck, a reasonable car. At some point , he says he just worked a 12 hour shift. I don't know where he worked, but a pound to a penny, someone will drop that info soon.

A 12 hour shift, to me, means, in the mines somewhere, maybe the salt mine up past the blowhole campground ( another of Rio Tinto's operations) .. that's just a guess on my part, based on the shift length.

I think he inherited his granma's house, that she, at some stage bought it, and left it to him, because if he was renting that place, the rent would be calculated on his earnings, and he seems, to me, that he has quite a lot of disposable income.

Does he smoke?? drink? gamble? ingest illegal substances? fly in lobsters from Port Hedland?.. I don't know. the dolls cost a bit.
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He was living in Public housing, can you buy Public Housing properties? Did his Grandmother live in the same house as he did? I'm just wondering about inheritance on his part.
 
Mom24 said:
What is Remand Centre? Is that within the jail or a separate place altogether?
Would his actions in court be interpreted as not being able to follow instructions or directions? When he has outbursts in court does that somehow factor into whether he's fit to stand trial?
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Remand centre is where one is held prior and up to one's court appearance, if one has pleaded not guilty. And that is correct, because it would be wrong to throw someone who claims innocence into Gen Pop of a prison.

It is still being detained though. It means, you either did not request bail ( because you are more scared out than in , or you dont have any one to post bail for you, or .. a lot of reasons. ) or you DID request bail and it was not granted ( because your crime was publicly provoking, or you have broken bail before, or .. lots of reasons ) ..

Remand centres are usually located near the main court location for quick transfer between prison and court appearances.. Prison is usually out on some godforsaken back stretch of country where no one is bothered by the sirens and bells.

His actions in court could be taken that way, in deed. Bailiffs would be shuffled up to deal with him, court would be suspended. But once he begins his case, with his stated plea, it goes on. His fitness for trial would be rigorously ascertained before trial, but should his mental state go into collapse AT trial, then it's all halted and it's back to square one.
 
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