Found Alive Australia - Terence Darrell Kelly, charged w/ abduction, 4 y.o. victim found alive, WA ,16 Oct 2021

[Trooper]

He was living in Public housing, can you buy Public Housing properties? Did his Grandmother live in the same house as he did? I'm just wondering about inheritance on his part.

if you are a tenant you can negotiate to buy Public Housing. You can buy public housing if the Housing dept puts one up for sale, without being a tenant.

I don't know if his gran left it to him, I put it forward as a theory, considering he is living in a 2 bedroom as a single male, not the usual way of Housing dealing out units to people. I am presuming gran owned it, ( bought it ) and left it to him, since she bought him up.

And she bought up another brother, too, so maybe they shared the inheritance, but all that is merely theory on my part, it is the explanation that fits the circumstance, but there could be other factors, too.

 

[PinkPower]

Im just thinking he has the option pleading guilty then that would be no trial?

Or the option pleading not guilty then a trial (he was caught red handed would be hard to plead not guilty) but what if he pleading not guilty due to mental illness would their be a trail?

Or would they not even get to a trial if because of mental illness he isn't fit

Basically im trying to understand will it even get to a trial if he has mental illness

Indictable offenses need to be concluded in courts by a plea of guilty or the accused being found not guilty.

The accused will first be judged fit or unfit to stand trial, and the bar is *very high* to be deemed unfit. That is, he is likely to be found fit.

If he pleads guilty, there won't be a trial. He will be sentenced. If he pleads not guilty, there will be a trial.

A person can be imprisoned in a psychiatric facility indefinitely even if he isn't found guilty of a crime. If he is assessed as being a danger to himself or the community, it doesn't need a trial or a finding of guilt. This is usually decided by a mental health tribunal.

 

[styzrz]

I thought it was reported that his grandmother lived “around the corner” and he moved into his current house after she died.

 

[Mom24]

Indictable offenses need to be concluded in courts by a plea of guilty or the accused being found not guilty.

The accused will first be judged fit or unfit to stand trial, and the bar is *very high* to be deemed unfit. That is, he is likely to be found fit.

If he pleads guilty, there won't be a trial. He will be sentenced. If he pleads not guilty, there will be a trial.

A person can be imprisoned in a psychiatric facility indefinitely even if he isn't found guilty of a crime. If he is assessed as being a danger to himself or the community, it doesn't need a trial or a finding of guilt. This is usually decided by a mental health tribunal.

How does the Aboriginal group fit into this? Do the elders have any kind of legal authorities or criminal proceedings as well?

 

[Trooper]

Indictable offenses need to be concluded in courts by a plea of guilty or the accused being found not guilty.

The accused will first be judged fit or unfit to stand trial, and the bar is *very high* to be deemed unfit. That is, he is likely to be found fit.

If he pleads guilty, there won't be a trial. He will be sentenced. If he pleads not guilty, there will be a trial.

A person can be imprisoned in a psychiatric facility indefinitely even if he isn't found guilty of a crime. If he is assessed as being a danger to himself or the community, it doesn't need a trial or a finding of guilt. This is usually decided by a mental health tribunal.

The bar is in deed very high. It is not a matter of the defendant feeling like he is driven mad. We all are driven mad at times.

Then there is the occasion where a defendant appropriates a mental defect. This doesn't often succeed, throwing hourly tantrums, muttering to himself, loudly singing, etc, jigging about, making lunges at the judge ( I've seen all of those and more ).. pretending not to speak English, pretending to be hearing voice from outer space, all the usual nonsense.

He can let his temper ride all over the court, but court will go on regardless of his attitude, and eventually, the matter progresses.
He already sounds as if he is up for some shouty stuff in court.. so.. . ... we will see how this all pans out.

 

[Trooper]

How does the Aboriginal group fit into this? Do the elders have any kind of legal authorities or criminal proceedings as well?

Sadly, no. not in any legal sense. He is not a minor. He is an adult, and as such, he doesn't come under the authority of his elders, in the legal sense. In the moral and community sense, yes, that never alters, but it seems to me that he has been estranged from his closer community for many years.. The reason? I don't know, it's not something that happens regularly , though, and particularly since he is geographically located right within his own community of elders.

By which I mean, he isn't living in Sydney, or Cairns, 1000 of klms away.

He has been living right there in the middle of his inherited community.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

How does the Aboriginal group fit into this? Do the elders have any kind of legal authorities or criminal proceedings as well?

I am possibly going to be howled down for this so I am going to pick my words carefully ..I hope.
Are there 2 types of law dealings with crime in Australia? Do the Indigenous have their own laws in a Court room? I am trying to be sensitive and pick my words but am sounding like a snowflake Are Indigenous people ruled by non Indigenous laws too ?

 

[PinkPower]

How does the Aboriginal group fit into this? Do the elders have any kind of legal authorities or criminal proceedings as well?

No, they're just community leaders, they have no legal authority. He will have access to Indigenous legal resources and representation, regardless of his financial position.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

No, they're just community leaders, they have no legal authority. He will have access to Indigenous legal resources and representation, regardless of his financial position.

That answered my query

 

[HilaryHormone]

I think its important to understand the 'why' and have some empathy. He is not the same as a guy who picks up a kid and rapes them in the toilet while breaking their legs and choking them while the brother and uncle are right outside. This happened to a little girl in Perth and a similar incident in Sydney. He is different, he took the kid which was wrong but it seems like he didn't have any intention to hurt her. Since at the moment with the current information it seems that he doesn't hurt kids and hasn't hurt kids...Perhaps if he gets the right help in prison or mental health ward, he could one day be a normal member of society with his own family and his own kids, instead of a fake family on facebook. The punishment should definitely fit the crime and he should not be punished the same as a pedo if he really isn't one. Everything is not as black and white as it seems and I hope this guy receives a lot of help in prison and is able to improve his mental health. Maybe I am just too soft!

Not soft, compassionate, which isn’t a bad thing. It’s not unreasonable to speculate about the ‘how comes’. IMO this guy hasn’t had the best upbringing and we know early experiences have long reaching impact on how someone functions in adulthood. I can empathise with that, I see it a lot in my job where parents can’t parent effectively because they’ve never experienced loving, nurturing care themselves; However, the accused is an adult who functioned independently day to day, he actively chose to take advantage of an innocent child’s vulnerability. And he succeeded in hiding her away for almost 3 weeks because he had the power and control over her. That’s calculated and manipulative and suggests he was thinking with a rational, adult mind. Who knows what he could have gone on to do if he wasn’t apprehended. Going from looking to steal some bits on a campsite to randomly snatching a child is a huge escalation in itself.

The interplay between mental health and criminal behaviour is very complex and I myself admit to finding it fascinating to analyse. Being overly sympathetic perpetuates the stigma associated with mental health and mental illness though, and that’s a slippery slope because the reality is, people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims.

We’re essentially saying the victim was abducted because the alleged perpetrator had poor upbringing so fantasised about caring for a child or having a real life doll. But the victim was just sleeping, next to her actual parents on what should have been a fun break. The responsibility and accountability has to stop with the perpetrator. The victim and the risk to potential victims are the primary concern here.

I do think family and parenting support is inadequate and more has to be done by governments to break cycles of intergenerational trauma. Surely the countless stories about predators we see across the world day in, day out is enough evidence for that? Prevention is better than cure IMO.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

<modsnip> accused’s Facebook deactivated

Kelly has since been charged with forcibly or fraudulently taking or enticing a child and was remanded in custody for four weeks.

Does this mean he lured C away from the tent with toys?

 

[Trooper]

I am possibly going to be howled down for this so I am going to pick my words carefully ..I hope.
Are there 2 types of law dealings with crime in Australia? Do the Indigenous have their own laws in a Court room? I am trying to be sensitive and pick my words but am sounding like a snowflake Are Indigenous people ruled by non Indigenous laws too ?

I congratulate you on your sensitivity. And I welcome it.

There are, in certain circumstances, not as a general rule , some indigenous laws that are sometimes activated, in only some very particular circumstances. Recently, these laws are being trialled for use among minors in isolated communities.. I don't know the results, as yet.

There have been in times past where Indigenous laws were enacted outside the non indigenous court system.

Indigenous people are subject to the same laws as non indigenous people in Australia. That's the law, as they are no less subjects of the crown, as non indigenous, so it naturally follows.

<modsnip: Info stated as fact must have links to support>

 

[PinkPower]

forcibly or fraudulently

No, it doesn't mean that. The 'or' is very important.

 

[Trooper]

<modsnip> accused’s Facebook deactivated

Kelly has since been charged with forcibly or fraudulently taking or enticing a child and was remanded in custody for four weeks.

Does this mean he lured C away from the tent with toys?

It could mean he presented himself as something other than what he was.. hence 'fraudulently'. .

or.. he made her accompany him .... hence, 'forcibly'..

 

[Gotta have Faith]

I congratulate you on your sensitivity. And I welcome it.

There are, in certain circumstances, not as a general rule , some indigenous laws that are sometimes activated, in only some very particular circumstances. Recently, these laws are being trialled for use among minors in isolated communities.. I don't know the results, as yet.

There have been in times past where Indigenous laws were enacted outside the non indigenous court system.

Indigenous people are subject to the same laws as non indigenous people in Australia. That's the law, as they are no less subjects of the crown, as non indigenous, so it naturally follows.

<modsnip: Info stated as fact must have links to support>

Trooper that was what I was trying to ask, are Indigenous people subject to the same laws as non Indigenous people. <modsnip>

 

[Awakening]

Thank you for the removal of your hat

I have moments where I ask my self “what the hell are you doing wasting all this time. This is a pointless exercise that is going nowhere”, and then I notice a new name I had not seen before and I’m off again down that hole! So now I’ve started, I have to finish and hope to create a visual representation I can share.

I'm loving your dedication to this and your excellent summaries.

You are providing great details. You are giving us a clear delineation between facts, your personal thoughts, opinions & questions.

<modsnip>

 

[Andreee]

Sorry, I disagree. I believe he is bàd, not mad.

I want to hear more before I form an opinion on if this guy is 'mad', bad or could be both?!

 

[Gotta have Faith]

Meanwhile, WA Police have repeatedly urged the public to avoid commenting on and speculating about the case on social media.

On Thursday, lead investigator Detective Superintendent Rod Wilde told reporters people shouldn’t “speculate” or share “wild theories” online.

“There’s been a lot of it through this investigation. It’s unhelpful, we see that it’s untrue, it only damages people,” he said.

“We’ve got a legal process that we’ll need to go through — that’s where the facts will come forward.

“Everyone please keep those theories to yourself and don’t go sticking them on social media — it’s very unhelpful.”

According to local media reports, Kelly will be transported from a padded cell in Carnarvon to a Perth prison today, although it in not yet known whether the journey will be made by road or by plane.


This is a fair enough request as the Police don't want a mistrial because of a jury being contaminated by public opinion and the accused saying he won't receive a fair trial

 

[alj65]

It would be the first govt house that I have seen with cornice all around the ceiling.

Just adding that cornices are common in Houso houses in N.S.W...well, ones built from the late 60s onward. For many decades, Government built housing had cookie cutter designs nationwide.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Meanwhile, WA Police have repeatedly urged the public to avoid commenting on and speculating about the case on social media.

On Thursday, lead investigator Detective Superintendent Rod Wilde told reporters people shouldn’t “speculate” or share “wild theories” online.

“There’s been a lot of it through this investigation. It’s unhelpful, we see that it’s untrue, it only damages people,” he said.

“We’ve got a legal process that we’ll need to go through — that’s where the facts will come forward.

“Everyone please keep those theories to yourself and don’t go sticking them on social media — it’s very unhelpful.”

According to local media reports, Kelly will be transported from a padded cell in Carnarvon to a Perth prison today, although it in not yet known whether the journey will be made by road or by plane.


This is a fair enough request as the Police don't want a mistrial because of a jury being contaminated by public opinion and the accused saying he won't receive a fair trial

I think that will be difficult for people to refrain from doing, the search touched many hearts.
JMO