Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

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Just listened to episode 2 of the podcast.. Crazy about the phone being at cozy corner at 12:05am! Also the fact the gps map shows Theo or whomever had the phone running through Milne st, onto the Milne st track, but up the fire trail instead of the actual Milne track.....

I just gotta say. I walked that exact path and even put pictures up on here. I noted then the fire trail would be the track to take cos it is a lot more open then the Milne track that veers off. I also noted that even during the day it was a little off putting, cos at the end of the fire trail there is a T junction, where there are 4 ways to go. Left takes you to tallows beach road, there’s a really small trail straight ahead but was kinda hard to see which I think leads to the tallows beach car park, then there was right, which leads directly to the beach, but at the time I noted it was a trail that looked like it had been purposefully made to be the least inviting. I took the right trail cos that’s what the original map on MSM said he did to get to the beach, well I ended up getting to a kind of open little clearing where the path seems to stop, that when I could really start hearing the water to. Its still under the canopy of the trees and after looking around for a minute I found a little path which I though might lead out, but then I saw an in use camp set up about 30-40 yeards off from the clearing so I just turned back.. this was during the day, it was afternoon and in places was a bit dark, I cannot imagine what it would be like at night, even with a full moon deep in the trail it’s covered with a canopy so would be blackness! I also cannot imagine someone without intimate knowledge of that trail taking it at night and being able to get through quickly walking, let alone running! It just doesn’t make sense to me!

I was also at cosy corner at sundown and it gets so dark there quick! I imagine it would be tough to get around there at night cos it was tough for me as the light faded, I had maps open but still, got me a little nervous hoping my gps was accurate but I got to the car park thankfully lol.

It’s just all very strange the phone running through there, remember the phones up at cosy corner sending msgs in French to known people of Theo past midnight so it’s not like whomever got lost in that scrub. it’s not a small hike by any stretch either.

Just to add Standing on Milne street at the entrance of the trail you wouldn’t know a trail was there unless you knew there was, cos even though google maps was showing me there was a track, and I’d been down that track earlier, if I didn’t know there was a track I wouldn’t go there looking for it, you couldn’t see it at night ( I wouldn’t go down there at night anyway).

I just can’t figure why he was running?
 
If Theo was on his phone right after leaving CM...what did that show he was looking at?

What if he was stitched up to be kicked out if CM...someone who befriended him prior may have said they'd meet him at such and such...
He's 'walked' there...met person, the atmosphere is friendly and playful maybe? Then person meeting him snatches his cap and 'runs'. Theo chases after them, cos they have his cap.

Theo loses chase...then starts maybe googling how to get back to hostel....hears ocean or sees lighthouse light and heads toward either or....ends up on the beach...thinks not much of the shenanigans....answers his messages...

The person who perhaps lured him there appears...and then who knows?

Just a theory.....AMOO

Why did he watch a Belgium game show though?
 
All quite possible. I reckon his journey to Tennyson Street (at least) was deliberate, given the cctv footage outside CMs. Remember too that the guys bought a cask earlier at the Great Northern bottle shop, which was consumed at Wake Up.
Hypothetically, if his drink was spiked at the bar, the person who did it would need to be there too. They may have left first and kept in touch. More likely though, if you’re spiking a drink you’d stay nearby to watch & catch the fallout. Wonder if anyone was caught on cctv following him after he left.
I agree, the footage needs to be looked at prior and after him leaving....
 
Search for Belgian backpacker Theo Hayez missing in Byron Bay was in the wrong place | Daily Mail Online
Here is a new map in this article, differs on the Milne Track route from the first one published.
It says : "This information proved to Michael that search and rescue groups had been searching in places that Theo never was."
Where did the searches take place then?
78238ac2b7845a8deee7223437389c07

Theo's route based on his google account:
20758130-7663823-image-a-2_1573209829436.jpg
 
feralflowers. I understand very clearly what you meant in your previous post. And yes, why not ? There must be a way for vehicles to reach the beach (ex for emergency). Will have to wait for someone to comfirm this.
Thanks again
 
Does it say somwhere at what date Michael found out the information and then discovered they had searched places Theo had never been to ?
 
feralflowers. I understand very clearly what you meant in your previous post. And yes, why not ? There must be a way for vehicles to reach the beach (ex for emergency). Will have to wait for someone to comfirm this.
Thanks again
Does it say somwhere at what date Michael found out the information and then discovered they had searched places Theo had never been to ?
Just a few weeks in ie mid June.
 
Theres another backpacker involved here, or young person he met at Wake Up or Cheeky Monkeys. Someone he connected with, liked and trusted. He may have been having fun with them at the bar (laughing, dancing, chatting), and they left before him and he went to find them in Tennyson Street. If so, he would be in contact through messages and would have gained their contact details. He had known Antoine the Belgium backpacker he was in the bottle shop with, for mere hours yet had friended him on Facebook in that time. He was probably friending many quickly. He would’ve felt safe going up Kingsley and Tennyson. He possibly felt safe running to the beach. Maybe a promise of a car ride home was waiting in the Tallow car park. Maybe he became separated from his companion and sat at Cosy Corner working out how to get back to Wake Up and biding time texting and watching YouTube alone.
My point is he seemed safe until after midnight and there’s indicators that he felt safe on the journey to Cosy Corner.
 
We can definitely say Theo was not drunk if he was running. Drunk people don't run. Brings it back to why was there attention on him at Cheeky's? Stating he was intoxicated just doesn't cut it. If that was my 18 year old daughter put out on the street at night on her own I would be fuming, why did this happen to a young fellow in a strange country and for a reason which doesn't seem to exist. Their silence is deafening. Not one post shared on their FB page about the fact that a young person went missing, last seen at their venue. It is just wrong no matter what angle you look at it from.
 
We can definitely say Theo was not drunk if he was running. Drunk people don't run. Brings it back to why was there attention on him at Cheeky's? Stating he was intoxicated just doesn't cut it. If that was my 18 year old daughter put out on the street at night on her own I would be fuming, why did this happen to a young fellow in a strange country and for a reason which doesn't seem to exist. Their silence is deafening. Not one post shared on their FB page about the fact that a young person went missing, last seen at their venue. It is just wrong no matter what angle you look at it from.
The manager said it’s common to ask patrons to leave and happens weekly. It’s irresponsible though as you say and needs to part of their risk mitigation to some extent. Theo nevertheless went on his way and maybe would have done the same if he left voluntarily. I’d like to know more too.
 
Theo taking the bush route, another possibility comes to mind, was there perhaps someone else walking along the track back from Tallows, someone he was wary of? A rowdy group maybe he heard coming so decided to go bush to avoid any trouble? Though I still think he was with at least one other person, maybe they went bush because they heard others walking up the track and wanted to avoid them? Just trying to think of reasons why he or they went off the track completely, to avoid someone else walking towards him/them.
 
Regarding the hostel... I personally don’t find any behaviour suspicious.

I’ve stayed and worked at a few hostels. Backpackers prefer dorms. It’s the point of staying at a hostel, otherwise they’d book a hotel, air bnb or tent site. In fact, it’s extremely rare for a young, single male backpacker to book a private room. They usually prefer to spend the cash on experiences or gifts for loved ones, because to foreigners, it’s an outlandish fortune to spend on a bed for a night. Theo may have stayed in a private room, but that in itself would be against the norm.

Also know that hostel guests consistently fail to check out properly or on time, and it is never cause for alarm. It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for the hostel to assume Theo left for good but didn’t check out properly, and didn’t even realise his stuff was still in the room.

In dorms, it’s not immediately apparent who’s bags belongs to whom. On any given day, there are a bunch of bags thrown across the floor and in lockers that housekeeping, rightfully, don’t know or care to which guest they belong to.

The only way they would have noticed, is if the entire dorm checked out one morning yet someone’s belongings remained.

Even then, guests do accidentally leave bags behind and call to claim them when the can. On the odd occasion, a guest will leave belongings behind that later becomes evident they intended to leave behind, things they no longer need.

Even if a bag is left behind, it’s against policy for hostel staff to go through it. In my experience, bags with no evident owners are usually put in a safe place by the manager. Only if it is still there days later, might it be briefly opened (but not rummaged through in detail) to check for identification and a contact number. If still there, police are called in.

Given Theo was supposed to check out on 3 June and already reported missing by family on 6 June, there was no time for hostel staff to become concerned.

A guest disappearing off the face of the earth is practically non-existent. It’s not like there was a precedent for it.

I don’t at all blame the hostel for not immediately realising something was wrong with Theo.

I am also not immediately suspicious of other backpackers staying at the same hostel as Theo. Hostel staff can often tell when a guest isn’t ‘quite right’, out of place or likely to cause trouble.

If there were any obvious characters staying in the hostel at that time, staff would likely have mentioned it to police and they would have been investigated or brought to light as persons of interest who might be able to assist investigation.

It doesn’t rule out theory of involvement of other guests, but to me it is less likely than say… patrons of CMs.
 
Regarding the hostel... I personally don’t find any behaviour suspicious.

I’ve stayed and worked at a few hostels. Backpackers prefer dorms. It’s the point of staying at a hostel, otherwise they’d book a hotel, air bnb or tent site. In fact, it’s extremely rare for a young, single male backpacker to book a private room. They usually prefer to spend the cash on experiences or gifts for loved ones, because to foreigners, it’s an outlandish fortune to spend on a bed for a night. Theo may have stayed in a private room, but that in itself would be against the norm.

Also know that hostel guests consistently fail to check out properly or on time, and it is never cause for alarm. It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for the hostel to assume Theo left for good but didn’t check out properly, and didn’t even realise his stuff was still in the room.

In dorms, it’s not immediately apparent who’s bags belongs to whom. On any given day, there are a bunch of bags thrown across the floor and in lockers that housekeeping, rightfully, don’t know or care to which guest they belong to.

The only way they would have noticed, is if the entire dorm checked out one morning yet someone’s belongings remained.

Even then, guests do accidentally leave bags behind and call to claim them when the can. On the odd occasion, a guest will leave belongings behind that later becomes evident they intended to leave behind, things they no longer need.

Even if a bag is left behind, it’s against policy for hostel staff to go through it. In my experience, bags with no evident owners are usually put in a safe place by the manager. Only if it is still there days later, might it be briefly opened (but not rummaged through in detail) to check for identification and a contact number. If still there, police are called in.

Given Theo was supposed to check out on 3 June and already reported missing by family on 6 June, there was no time for hostel staff to become concerned.

A guest disappearing off the face of the earth is practically non-existent. It’s not like there was a precedent for it.

I don’t at all blame the hostel for not immediately realising something was wrong with Theo.

I am also not immediately suspicious of other backpackers staying at the same hostel as Theo. Hostel staff can often tell when a guest isn’t ‘quite right’, out of place or likely to cause trouble.

If there were any obvious characters staying in the hostel at that time, staff would likely have mentioned it to police and they would have been investigated or brought to light as persons of interest who might be able to assist investigation.

It doesn’t rule out theory of involvement of other guests, but to me it is less likely than say… patrons of CMs.

Thanks Peralta. That’s good inside info that calms that line of inquiry!! :)

Fellow foreigners wouldn’t know the locale so intimately either, so any companion/s are looking to be locals familiar with the area and it’s shortcuts. Maybe someone he met at the bar who left before him and was in contact afterwards...?
 
It says : "This information proved to Michael that search and rescue groups had been searching in places that Theo never was."
Where did the searches take place then?
Initial focus assumed he went back to Wake Up! and focused on the route there with attention around the railway tracks going into Belongil and that general area.
 
Regarding the hostel... I personally don’t find any behaviour suspicious.

I’ve stayed and worked at a few hostels. Backpackers prefer dorms. It’s the point of staying at a hostel, otherwise they’d book a hotel, air bnb or tent site. In fact, it’s extremely rare for a young, single male backpacker to book a private room. They usually prefer to spend the cash on experiences or gifts for loved ones, because to foreigners, it’s an outlandish fortune to spend on a bed for a night. Theo may have stayed in a private room, but that in itself would be against the norm.

Also know that hostel guests consistently fail to check out properly or on time, and it is never cause for alarm. It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for the hostel to assume Theo left for good but didn’t check out properly, and didn’t even realise his stuff was still in the room.

In dorms, it’s not immediately apparent who’s bags belongs to whom. On any given day, there are a bunch of bags thrown across the floor and in lockers that housekeeping, rightfully, don’t know or care to which guest they belong to.

The only way they would have noticed, is if the entire dorm checked out one morning yet someone’s belongings remained.

Even then, guests do accidentally leave bags behind and call to claim them when the can. On the odd occasion, a guest will leave belongings behind that later becomes evident they intended to leave behind, things they no longer need.

Even if a bag is left behind, it’s against policy for hostel staff to go through it. In my experience, bags with no evident owners are usually put in a safe place by the manager. Only if it is still there days later, might it be briefly opened (but not rummaged through in detail) to check for identification and a contact number. If still there, police are called in.

Given Theo was supposed to check out on 3 June and already reported missing by family on 6 June, there was no time for hostel staff to become concerned.

A guest disappearing off the face of the earth is practically non-existent. It’s not like there was a precedent for it.

I don’t at all blame the hostel for not immediately realising something was wrong with Theo.

I am also not immediately suspicious of other backpackers staying at the same hostel as Theo. Hostel staff can often tell when a guest isn’t ‘quite right’, out of place or likely to cause trouble.

If there were any obvious characters staying in the hostel at that time, staff would likely have mentioned it to police and they would have been investigated or brought to light as persons of interest who might be able to assist investigation.

It doesn’t rule out theory of involvement of other guests, but to me it is less likely than say… patrons of CMs.
From memory, I think the podcast stated "his room"...
Though, if he had been reported missing earlier, it makes no difference IMO...they started searching in the wrong area to begin with...
 
Initial focus assumed he went back to Wake Up! and focused on the route there with attention around the railway tracks going into Belongil and that general area.
Thanks, yes, I read somewhere that those initial westbound searches lasted for a week.

So Michael discovered the google-route around mid-June and was shocked having discovered this. That's more or less when the search area(s) started to move towards the East and towards the lighthouse.

But then why was Theo's family so convinced -only a week ago- that it was Theo in that footage walking towards his hostel? Dispite knowing his Google-route?
Is it because the family is questioning whether it was Theo carrying the phone (operating google)?
 
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