Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[SLouTh]

It’s a few km’s to the highway and a river crossing too, no way a child would walk that far. Unless she was meaning the Main Street of Kendall?
Either way, there would’ve been witnesses seeing a little boy alone. Perhaps even a scent the dogs may of picked up following his tracks

Was FGM referring to Batar Creek Road???? Rather than the actual highway?? That would be the closest "main road" ..... IMO

I personally think the greatest risk there would have been William being accidentally run over....

Kids can walk a phenomenal distance though, when lost, in a relatively quick time period.... IMO (based on other cases .....)

 

[SLouTh]

There has been no indication that I have seen that FGM even knew about FM's morning drive in FGM's vehicle. jmo.

True..... AFAIK there is nothing reported in the media on that particular matter .....
(unless someone has a link for that??? )

But if Rowley noticed the bonnet was "hot" surely he asked both of them who used the car????
I also suspect Rowley asked the FF if he drove the car???

All IMO

 

[Couldbe]

There has been no indication that I have seen that FGM even knew about FM's morning drive in FGM's vehicle. jmo.

JMO Do you think FFC's drive might have been concealed from FGM?

Points to consider: do you think that FGM just didn't know that FFC had taken the keys for the Mazda / didn't hear the car's movement / didn't notice FFC no longer calling out to William (for the duration of the drive)?
JMO - I think FGM would have been aware of drive by FFC.

 

[deugirtni]

JMO Do you think FFC's drive might have been concealed from FGM?

Points to consider: do you think that FGM just didn't know that FFC had taken the keys for the Mazda / didn't hear the car's movement / didn't notice FFC no longer calling out to William (for the duration of the drive)?
JMO - I think FGM would have been aware of drive by FFC.

We have seen MSM articles regarding the coroner's release of the FGM's police statement.. although MSM did not seem to publish it, they have posted parts of it, (I believe mostly in their own words?)... and I don't recall FGM ever being said to have known about FM's car ride. I know that if it were me, and I was panicked and in a huge rush, and I knew where my mother's keys were, AND it was the only vehicle to use (it is my opinion only that this drive took place however, after FD's return), I would have just taken them and sped away to look for him. Time would obviously have been of the essence.

 

[deugirtni]

True..... AFAIK there is nothing reported in the media on that particular matter .....
(unless someone has a link for that??? )

But if Rowley noticed the bonnet was "hot" surely he asked both of them who used the car????
I also suspect Rowley asked the FF if he drove the car???

All IMO

Is is possible that Rowley did not check the heat of FGM's vehicle? Why would he even suspect that anyone had gone out in that car, unless he'd been told? Did Rowley testify about feeling the FGM's engine heat/no heat during his inquest testimony? If so, I am forgetting about that.

 

[SLouTh]

Is is possible that Rowley did not check the heat of FGM's vehicle? Why would he even suspect that anyone had gone out in that car, unless he'd been told? Did Rowley testify about feeling the FGM's engine heat/no heat during his inquest testimony? If so, I am forgetting about that.

Yes that has come out recently, IIRC..... I will try and find an article about that to post here...
IMO

 

[SLouTh]

We have seen MSM articles regarding the coroner's release of the FGM's police statement.. although MSM did not seem to publish it, they have posted parts of it, (I believe mostly in their own words?)... and I don't recall FGM ever being said to have known about FM's car ride. I know that if it were me, and I was panicked and in a huge rush, and I knew where my mother's keys were, AND it was the only vehicle to use (it is my opinion only that this drive took place however, after FD's return), I would have just taken them and sped away to look for him. Time would obviously have been of the essence.

Agree with your points about panicking etc ...... that would be a normal reaction IMO

This article states the following:

Daily Mail Australia understands the Mazda Hatchback was allegedly driven by his foster mother on September 12, 2014 – the morning the three-year-old vanished.

A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall. That area is the middle of a massive forensic police search.

It’s understood the alleged unspecified object is part of the focus of forensic search underway for traces of William, about 700m from his foster grandmother’s home.

The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother’s car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

William Tyrrell's complicated family dynamic explained: From foster parents to biological family - Naija Super Fans

But again, we don't really know what is the absolute truth with media reporting ...

I also note that this article "implies" that "whatever" was thrown from a vehicle on Batar Creek Road, actually came from the same car..... That is how the article is written ..... IMO.

I don't think I have seen these statements written exactly like that in any other article????

 

[deugirtni]

From: William Tyrrell: Volunteers continue the plight to bring him home, Camden Haven Courier, 07 Aug 2015

A photo shows a group of people holding up "Where's William?" posters and the caption calls them "The William Tyrrell official campaign support group for Kendall":

View attachment 329157

Does anybody know more about this? Was it (or is it still) an actual group? If it was "official", what does that mean?

One of the "Kendall" locals in the photo, KB, was in another article reported to be living at Dunbogan:

William Tyrrell: Light candles for our missing birthday boy, Port Macquarie News, 24 June 2015

Not that there's anything wrong with that. And there are some actual Kendall locals in the photo, including the first neighbour to help FFC search: AMS.

Not mentioned in the caption but in the text, reportedly said by William's mother (who we now know as FFC):

"A special thank you to Wendy who has been coordinating on our behalf. We know that as a group you have been with us from the very beginning ..." BBM

I think the "W" would be referring to Senior Constable H, a local police officer who (I'm guessing) might not have been permitted to reply to a media report like this even if it was wrong and misleading. Even if she had replied to correct it (if in fact it was wrong), a correction would have been too late to shift the initial public perception that she was "with" the foster family.

MOO

Thank you for posting that stormbird. That information in regard to 'W' is making my head SPIN. Especially after reading about the fellow at the tennis club who overheard WH receive a phonecall around 9:45am (IIRC) regarding what he perceived to be a missing child. And on top of WH's inquest testimony regarding her interviewing the child, and etc.... even though it was her day off. There is nothing to say that WH is the 'W' being referred to by FM in the article you have linked (the first one above), however it sure begs some further examination, as I do not recall any neighbours named W. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Agree with your points about panicking etc ...... that would be a normal reaction IMO

This article states the following:

Daily Mail Australia understands the Mazda Hatchback was allegedly driven by his foster mother on September 12, 2014 – the morning the three-year-old vanished.

A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall. That area is the middle of a massive forensic police search.

It’s understood the alleged unspecified object is part of the focus of forensic search underway for traces of William, about 700m from his foster grandmother’s home.

The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother’s car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

William Tyrrell's complicated family dynamic explained: From foster parents to biological family - Naija Super Fans

But again, we don't really know what is the absolute truth with media reporting ...

I also note that this article "implies" that "whatever" was thrown from a vehicle on Batar Creek Road, actually came from the same car..... That is how the article is written ..... IMO.

I don't think I have seen these statements written exactly like that in any other article????

It is just my personal opinion that FM took the drive just after FD's return to the property, and prior to calling 000. I did get the same interpretation, that LE seem to believe that something may have been thrown from FGM's vehicle.

 

[SLouTh]

Is is possible that Rowley did not check the heat of FGM's vehicle? Why would he even suspect that anyone had gone out in that car, unless he'd been told? Did Rowley testify about feeling the FGM's engine heat/no heat during his inquest testimony? If so, I am forgetting about that.

I think Rowley may have been fairly thorough in investigating the scene.... he is also the one that felt the temperature of the cups of tea, that were discussed at length, during the inquest.....
IMO

 

[deugirtni]

I think Rowley may have been fairly thorough in investigating the scene.... he is also the one that felt the temperature of the cups of tea, that were discussed at length, during the inquest.....
IMO

Thankfully someone was on their toes!

 

[SLouTh]

Thank you for posting that stormbird. That information in regard to 'W' is making my head SPIN. Especially after reading about the fellow at the tennis club who overheard WH receive a phonecall around 9:45am (IIRC) regarding what he perceived to be a missing child.

This would certainly change the official timeline, if found to be correct...... IMO
As it would mean William was missing prior to that phone call at 9:45am?

Although this same witness seems to have "missing time" in his own timeline...... IMO

It's all very intriguing to say the least!!!
IMO

 

[drsleuth]

Again I'm catching up.........

From quoted link:

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).

'That is the last time I saw William.'

I find it interesting that the FGM felt the need to specify the "two small stairs" and "onto the grass".

We can all see there were two steps and a grassed area that followed. Why specify they were "small" and there was "grass"?

My opinion is that as opposed to "grass" is another surface not as soft as grass. Why did it matter to the FGM to state this as well as pointing out if the steps were "small" as opposed to larger steps?

In my opinion, I feel it is unusual that she used different tenses when referring to the last time she saw William:

"That" (past) "is" (present) stated instead of what I would usually expect, in my opinion:

"This is" - present tense
"That was" - past tense

All IMHO.

This is just the way police statements are taken IMO. I have no issue with her words at all.

William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

"'I can't think of anyone who would want to harm William,' she told police in the statement, dated two days after the boy disappeared."

It's my opinion, based on the above statement, the FGM believed William may had been 'harmed'. She stated this within 2 days of William's disappearance. What led her to her belief?

This belief excludes the many other possibilities for William's disappearance, including wandering off & accidental injury.

In my opinion, I find it strange that she states the above but also discussed her neighbour with Police. This person was "someone" she did think of.

She also states "I can't think of anyone" rather than "I don't know of anyone". In my opinion, given her choice of words, the FGM is only advising us, at that point in time, she couldn't "think of anyone", not that she didn't necessarily know of anyone who would want to harm William.

All IMHO.

She was asked certain questions by LE, these are her answers she gave to those questions IMO

In my opinion, there was unnecessary detail provided by the FGM in the quoted link. Why were the extra details included when not necessarily required?

In my opinion, the same information may have communicated more simply with the same results.

In my opinion, stating "he ran down the back patio stairs and around the right hand side of the house" gives the same information.

All IMHO.

Have you ever given a police statement? They are very detailed IMO . No detail is unnecessary IMO.

The FFC, MFC & FGM , really can't win can they , they either give too much details or not enough.........

In my opinion, words chosen can also indicate subtle victim blaming.

"At its core, victim blaming could stem from a combination of failure to empathize with victims and a fear reaction triggered by the human drive for self-preservation."

"No matter what we want to believe, the world is not a just place. And it takes some difficult cognitive work to accept both that bad things sometimes happen to good people, and that seemingly normal people sometimes do bad things."

The Psychology of Victim :Blaming

"In order to discredit a victim, an abuser will often blame the victim for their own actions,..."

What is Blame-Shifting? Escaping responsibility

I'm getting the impression that there is alot of victim blaming going on here with the FGM .....

The 4th tranche of the inquest ended early on Wednesday 18th March 2020.

Australia's international border slammed closed on Friday 20th March 2020. The PM made the official public media announcement (that this was happening) on Thursday 19th March 2020.

I wonder if the courts (and other officials) learned of the border closure before the public, and this affected the 4th tranche. I find the timing of the sudden end of the 4th tranche interesting, when aligning it with the scary start of the pandemic and its restrictions.

Border Restrictions | Prime Minister of Australia
Coronavirus halts William Tyrrell inquest

(We may have to wait for any inquest tranche answers from drsleuth, if they have any. I have a feeling the good drsleuth is very busy at the moment with escalating hospital cases. imo )

BBM : That's an understatment SA , up to my neck every day with Covid positive patients

I've just worked 41 hrs in 3 days

Sorry ,but I don't have the time or energy to go searching thru my notes for dates ( these can easily be found as I see stormbird has done )

So was the foster Gma 'victim blaming' when she said 'the lil devil' when FM said she couldn't hear him anymore?

Personally, I don't think that was what she was doing because she didn't even know anything bad had happened...she was just assuming the 3 yr old was up to basic 3 yr old mischief, which is endearing, not a negative attribute.


JMO

Exactly Katy

I’m not so interested in the tense as I am in her details Edgar. Following on from your quoted excerpt :

William was dressed in his "Spiderman" costume ... While he was playing out the back patio he started roaring like a tiger and told us he was the "daddy tiger".

She said her daughter took the famous last photos of William on her balcony and had been contemplating feeding him morning tea, and supposed it was about 10.30am.

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).

'That is the last time I saw William.'

'About five minutes had passed and the female foster carer said: ''Mum, he's a little bit quiet' and she walked off the back patio in the direction of where we'd last seen William.'

She next saw the foster carer standing out the front of the house speaking to a neighbour and calling out William's name.
'The female foster carer walked back to the house and told me she was calling the because she couldn't find William.

'The female foster carer called the police (and the male foster carer as well). I think the male foster carer arrived home before the police but I'm not entirely sure.

'The police didn't take long to get there and I remember the officer saying he wasn't far away when the call came in.'

What was FFG doing when FFFC was driving around ?

She was with William's sister.

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).
What is "(to the front)" meant to indicate? ........ because the last time FGM had seen William was on the grass at the bottom of the small steps and heading around the right hand side of the house; she wouldn't know that he went to the front, instead he may have veered off in a different direction.

JMO - I agree Warshawski that with what we can be privy to with regard to the content of FGM's statement, we are left to wonder "What was FFG doing when FFFC was driving around?"

He ran around in the direction to the front of the house .....

She was with William's sister, what do you think she was doing???

Hi SLouTh. These are the dates I have (from the tweets by Lia Harris):

19 Dec 2018, Wed, directions hearing, old Coroners Court, Glebe

25 Mar 2019, Mon, inquest hearing, new Coroners Court, Lidcombe
26 Mar 2019, Tue
27 Mar 2019, Wed
28 Mar 2019, Thu

07 Aug 2019, Wed, inquest hearing, Lidcombe
08 Aug 2019, Thu
12 Aug 2019, Mon
13 Aug 2019, Tue
14 Aug 2019, Wed
16 Aug 2019, Fri
19 Aug 2019, Mon
20 Aug 2019, Tue
21 Aug 2019, Wed
22 Aug 2019, Thu
23 Aug 2019, Fri
26 Aug 2019, Mon
28 Aug 2019, Wed

09 Mar 2020, Mon, inquest hearing, Taree
10 Mar 2020, Tue
11 Mar 2020, Wed
12 Mar 2020, Thu
13 Mar 2020, Fri
16 Mar 2020, Mon
17 Mar 2020, Tue
18 Mar 2020, Wed

01 Jun 2020, Mon, directions hearing, Lidcombe

06 Oct 2020, Tue, inquest hearing, Lidcombe
07 Oct 2020, Wed
08 Oct 2020, Thu

Thanks stormbird

That is exactly my point Travelling Wilbury........JMO so why would FGM say such a thing?

The FGM was talking about Batar Creek Rd & was worried that William could have made it down to there & been in danger ..........obviously

 

[Couldbe]

Again I'm catching up.........




This is just the way police statements are taken IMO. I have no issue with her words at all.



She was asked certain questions by LE, these are her answers she gave to those questions IMO



Have you ever given a police statement? They are very detailed IMO . No detail is unnecessary IMO.

The FFC, MFC & FGM , really can't win can they , they either give too much details or not enough.........







I'm getting the impression that there is alot of victim blaming going on here with the FGM .....



BBM : That's an understatment SA , up to my neck every day with Covid positive patients

I've just worked 41 hrs in 3 days

Sorry ,but I don't have the time or energy to go searching thru my notes for dates ( these can easily be found as I see stormbird has done )



Exactly Katy



She was with William's sister.



He ran around in the direction to the front of the house .....

She was with William's sister, what do you think she was doing???



Thanks stormbird



The FGM was talking about Batar Creek Rd & was worried that William could have made it down to there & been in danger ..........obviously

Dr Sleuth, your comment "The FGM was talking about Batar Creek Rd & was worried that William could have made it down to there & been in danger ..........obviously"
..........in my opinion this does not obviously explain why, with that theory of FGM, it had not been reported by a witness that William had come to harm.

 

[drsleuth]

Dr Sleuth, your comment "The FGM was talking about Batar Creek Rd & was worried that William could have made it down to there & been in danger ..........obviously"
..........in my opinion this does not obviously explain why, with that theory of FGM, it had not been reported by a witness that William had come to harm.

<modsnip>

If William had made it down to Batar Ck Rd , isn't it just common sense that he could have been in danger etc??

Maybe I'm missing something in my sleep deprived state??

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Dr Sleuth, your comment "The FGM was talking about Batar Creek Rd & was worried that William could have made it down to there & been in danger ..........obviously"
..........in my opinion this does not obviously explain why, with that theory of FGM, it had not been reported by a witness that William had come to harm.

Agreed, this could change things the way we’ve been thinking thus far. The FGM said the child could’ve gone to the “highway”, but if she meant Batar Creek rd, and then “he could be in danger”, the very area that has just been searched. The finer detail of the “object may of been thrown from the car” needs to be known to further investigate the Batar Creek Rd area IMO.

The FGM has mentioned this theory, being one of the present people at the time of his disappearance, yet the FFC has said “someone has taken him” from an early stage.

 

[Raina_the_observer]

Agreed, this could change things the way we’ve been thinking thus far. The FGM said the child could’ve gone to the “highway”, but if she meant Batar Creek rd, and then “he could be in danger”, the very area that has just been searched. The finer detail of the “object may of been thrown from the car” needs to be known to further investigate the Batar Creek Rd area IMO.

The FGM has mentioned this theory, being one of the present people at the time of his disappearance, yet the FFC has said “someone has taken him” from an early stage.

I cant see that this quote is a "theory". Just a statement of the obvious that if he wandered down to the nearest "highway", which I interpret as closest road with traffic on it he would be in danger.
Of course, by the time this statement was taken he had been missing for a few hours, so surely everyone realised the seriousness of the situation by then.

 

[drsleuth]

No one knew what happened to William ( and still don't ) that fateful morning , he was there one minute & gone the next it seems ( " 5 mins , perhaps it was longer , matter for the coroner to determine , was exactly what Mr Craddock said in his opening statement )

The FFC said she didn't think that William would go that far ( Batar Ck Rd ) the FGM thought different .........

I'm confused, what changes " the way we've been thinking thus far" ?? What have "we" been thinking?

I'm sure many "theories" we said by many people that morning , doesn't mean anything really as no one really knows what happened to William ....


He could have been abducted.............
He could have wandered off & came to harm ( either by being lost or injured etc, someone could have come across him & abducted / murdered him, he could have succumbed to the elements & hasn't been found )...........
He could have made his way to Batar Cr Rd & been hit by a car etc ( or in Benaroon Drive ) & the person responsible has done what ever with him .............
He could have had an fatal accident at the FGM's house ............


So many possibilities & I'm sure these were all thought of that morning & voiced by many

At this stage I'm willing to believe he was taken by an alien

 

[HilaryHormone]

JMO Do you think FFC's drive might have been concealed from FGM?

Points to consider: do you think that FGM just didn't know that FFC had taken the keys for the Mazda / didn't hear the car's movement / didn't notice FFC no longer calling out to William (for the duration of the drive)?
JMO - I think FGM would have been aware of drive by FFC.

I think she would have been too, not least because she would have been looking after William’s sister in FFC’s absence.

 

[Couldbe]

I think she would have been too, not least because she would have been looking after William’s sister in FFC’s absence.

Good point Hilary Hormone.