Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #18

[Fortunate]

i just had a look and sorry there doesnt appear to be a date, tried to transfer the photo here but no luck, but its 23 benaroon drive on six maps if anyone wants to check, even if its an old photo its a big coincidence for these two cars to be here, if theyre the same vehicles williams mother saw?
https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/

The date seems to be 24 March 2014 (according to page info)

 

[richieswan]

Thanks Seek. I saw the hinges in the laundry but the other side of the wall is the TV, so I'm guessing it's a Laundry cupboard along side the Family Room cupboard.
With the door to room 6, it could be near the clock like you suggest, but then that means two doors to the bedroom, and the ceiling corners didn't suggest a door length here. Could be though. Funny house really. Anyway, some uncertainty on the interior doors and hallways, and bit of guess work from me.

BBM: I couldn't edit my post, but just for clarity I think Seek viewed the floor plan version I put up then quickly replaced because I forgot any door to this room. So yes, the door is near the clock as my revised map shows. Thanks Seek.

 

[bearbear]

Hasn't this image been passed onto Crimestoppers?

yes i think someone here was going to send it to crimestoppers? not sure if they did though?

 

[frogwell]

Just a thought, could all the earth under the house be from excavation during the search/investigation for WT? Also I was thinking that the new owners at this stage were probably not going to make a profit on their home if they sold right now, and how nice it was of them to let 60 minutes film around the home and then it occurred to me, 60 minutes may well have paid them to access the property therefore they recouped any losses they may have outlayed and they could move alot quicker as they found the new home's history is just too rich at this time? I'd just like to add, I really like the 48 Benaroon property and under different circumstances I would love to live there.

 

[Andromeda13]

Maybe WT saw some thing he was not supposed to see.Drug deal or something.

 

[frogwell]

http://www.domain.com.au/for-sale/kendall-nsw-2439-2012336605?sp=2

As has been suggested with above picture, could the 2 vehicles that the FM saw on the morning WT disappeared be a real estate agent and maybe a photographer, going to another residence on Benaroon Drive, to take photos, help write up description for a house that was going on the market the next month?

 

[frogwell]

Just reviewing the pictures for the sale of the house opposite GM's. Looking at the light to see if I can tell about what time they were taken. Maybe it's just my fancy but they look like they were taken at about 8.30-9am to me. Just by the way the light looks... I'm no expert...I just think too much. ;-)
http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Kendall&sta=nsw&id=396672&address=35+Benaroon+Drive,+Kendall

 

[Found]

Could the 2 cars parked together on Benaroon drive have just been placed at the neighbors boundary, by the neighbor while he was doing his lawns that day?

Plausible theory but surely if the neighbours had the same cars and have been interviewed that would be known by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Makara]

Maybe WT saw some thing he was not supposed to see.Drug deal or something.

Welcome Andromedia13. At the age of three, which William was when he disappeared, I really don't think he would have even understood what a drug deal was.

 

[Found]

Regardless of all the house sleuthing we know WT was taken while outside....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Samantha10]

I categorically believe the foster parents are not involved. I am just curious how nobody else noticed the cars that FM saw that morning. When you listen to this link https://soundcloud.com/daily-telegr...d-luck?in=daily-telegraph/sets/william-tyrell One neighbour's statement ' She saw nothing out of the ordinary when pulling into the street minutes before the abduction. My theory is they weren't out of the ordinary for the local residents. Surely these should have been discounted easily? I know it is rehashing but it is really bugging me especially when you can see a similar car in background of latest photographs from Auctioneers website http://www.domain.com.au/ore/Public...=2012336605&pic=1&mode=Buy&AgencyID=7691&st=1 Is there a timeframe that FM saw these two cars i.e. earlier then 10.30am?

 

[frogwell]

I categorically believe the foster parents are not involved. I am just curious how nobody else noticed the cars that FM saw that morning. When you listen to this link https://soundcloud.com/daily-telegr...d-luck?in=daily-telegraph/sets/william-tyrell One neighbour's statement ' She saw nothing out of the ordinary when pulling into the street minutes before the abduction. My theory is they weren't out of the ordinary for the local residents. Surely these should have been discounted easily? I know it is rehashing but it is really bugging me especially when you can see a similar car in background of latest photographs from Auctioneers website http://www.domain.com.au/ore/Public...=2012336605&pic=1&mode=Buy&AgencyID=7691&st=1 Is there a timeframe that FM saw these two cars i.e. earlier then 10.30am?

yes, she saw them from her window when she was opening the blinds in the morning, timeframe is before breakfast. The FF left about 9 am and after he left she still saw the same cars while playing with WT in the backyard, say 9.30 - 9.45. She didn't notice them anymore when WT went missing and believed they had gone by the time she was searching for WT.

 

[sosocurious]

I categorically believe the foster parents are not involved. I am just curious how nobody else noticed the cars that FM saw that morning. When you listen to this link https://soundcloud.com/daily-telegr...d-luck?in=daily-telegraph/sets/william-tyrell One neighbour's statement ' She saw nothing out of the ordinary when pulling into the street minutes before the abduction. My theory is they weren't out of the ordinary for the local residents. Surely these should have been discounted easily? I know it is rehashing but it is really bugging me especially when you can see a similar car in background of latest photographs from Auctioneers website http://www.domain.com.au/ore/Public...=2012336605&pic=1&mode=Buy&AgencyID=7691&st=1 Is there a timeframe that FM saw these two cars i.e. earlier then 10.30am?

I am with you . I also believe the foster family are not involved.
But I would have a hard time describing my own car in such detail..
The detail of those cars has always made me wonder if LE knew to whom they belonged or more than just mum saw them.
As I have said before ... the detail was such that it even appeared the number plates had been blurred out. imo




http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-co...am-tyrrell-investigation-20150925-gjvfsy.html

 

[Puggle]

Yeah can't quite figure it out......but thinking the neighbours have been asked by Police to not mention the cars....

If police tell you..then I suppose you abide - otherwise you risk prosecution of hindering an investigation.

What we Know... (keeping in mind - they have been sitting on this information about the cars from day one)

April - Police state they are looking into the possibility of a paedophile ring operating in the area

Early September - Police state they are looking into possible connection of a paedophile ring amongst a Grandparent support group

Also Early September - police reveal via 60 minutes the details about the cars.

10 day or so later....Police seize car matching the 60 minutes program's description - from a member of one of these support groups - with a recorded history of criminal offences ...(selected)....the most current one the molestation of an 11 year old girl over a two year period.

Why a "selection"..... be interested to see if the "unselected" offences were specific paedophile activity and simply omitted as to not impair or unfairly influence any further charges brought up against him in the future.... He couldn't escape the latest one as that was what was making news...

Will have to wait and see if any further charges are brought against him and all those articles are changed to have his named removed...

ETA: If this was an abduction that was not planned ....in that the people in the cars were there for another reason (not necessarily legal)....maybe the twits...didn't factor in the CCTV from the tennis club??

 

[sosocurious]

Yeah can't quite figure it out......but thinking the neighbours have been asked by Police to not mention the cars....

If police tell you..then I suppose you abide - otherwise you risk prosecution of hindering an investigation.

What we Know... (keeping in mind - they have been sitting on this information about the cars from day one)

April - Police state they are looking into the possibility of a paedophile ring operating in the area

Early September - Police state they are looking into possible connection of a paedophile ring amongst a Grandparent support group

Also Early September - police reveal via 60 minutes the details about the cars.

10 day or so later....Police seize car matching the 60 minutes program's description - from a member of one of these support groups - with a recorded history of criminal offences ...(selected)....the most current one the molestation of an 11 year old girl over a two year period.

Why a "selection"..... be interested to see if the "unselected" offences were specific paedophile activity and simply omitted as to not impair or unfairly influence any further charges brought up against him in the future.... He couldn't escape the latest one as that was what was making news...

Will have to wait and see if any further charges are brought against him and all those articles are changed to have his named removed...

Judge Flannery stated the two charges were “representative counts” and “part of a course of conduct”.

Prosecutor Brendan Queenan submitted that the extensive publicity surrounding this case had effectively punished Jones outside the court system.

“It is above and beyond what you might expect,” Mr Queenan told the court.

Defence lawyer Stephen Wright told the court that Jones had not been taking his medication for a mental health condition and had been drinking to excess at the time of the offences.

“He is deeply ashamed of what he has done,” Mr Wright said.

Mr Wright acknowledged Jones “has an extensive criminal history but not for offences such as these”..............

The sentence was reduced to take into account that Jones’ early pleas of guilty had “utilitarian value” within the justice system.

Judge Flannery also considered that Jones has been held in protective custody for 12 months prior to sentencing. Jones has told the court “12 months felt like three years” under the strict contact conditions and only up to one hour of exercise per day.

Jones will become eligible for parole on 26 September 2016.

Judge Flannery indicated he should then be able to attend a sexual offenders program.

According to the judge .. no offences such as these.
Extensive publicity ... didn't we only learn about AJ about a week before sentencing?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/to...544057826?sv=d36f453d89e1faf18820774e1b705852

 

[Puggle]

Judge Flannery stated the two charges were “representative counts” and “part of a course of conduct”.

Prosecutor Brendan Queenan submitted that the extensive publicity surrounding this case had effectively punished Jones outside the court system.

“It is above and beyond what you might expect,” Mr Queenan told the court.

Defence lawyer Stephen Wright told the court that Jones had not been taking his medication for a mental health condition and had been drinking to excess at the time of the offences.

“He is deeply ashamed of what he has done,” Mr Wright said.

Mr Wright acknowledged Jones “has an extensive criminal history but not for offences such as these”..............

The sentence was reduced to take into account that Jones’ early pleas of guilty had “utilitarian value” within the justice system.

Judge Flannery also considered that Jones has been held in protective custody for 12 months prior to sentencing. Jones has told the court “12 months felt like three years” under the strict contact conditions and only up to one hour of exercise per day.

Jones will become eligible for parole on 26 September 2016.

Judge Flannery indicated he should then be able to attend a sexual offenders program.

According to the judge .. no offences such as these.
Extensive publicity ... didn't we only learn about AJ about a week before sentencing?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/to...544057826?sv=d36f453d89e1faf18820774e1b705852

Thanks soso....

Maybe....a kidnapping was his final act of defiance against society before he went away on such a long and lengthy stretch....you can see his antisocial behaviour from the previous offences.... and the freakin hogwash moans of how he has been subjected to punishment enough...ohh cry me a river!!!.....obviously no remorse or consideration for his victim...

 

[Bohemian]

Regardless of all the house sleuthing we know WT was taken while outside....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's true but I don't think that means the 'house sleuthing' is irrelevant. It informs us where each of William's family members were at different times during the morning he disappeared from outside, therefore, their possible fields of vision of the surrounding street and properties, given information supplied via MSM and William's FM herself.

 

[perkerkel]

Wow! Some really interesting semantics going on! Thanks for those quotes from AJ's court appearance so so" . Love the house plan richieswan... So much easier to make sense of who was where, and the video collection. The collection of links is also great, thanks Makara. It will save me masses of my precious 15GB not having to trawl back through pages!
I've been thinking for a while about the eccentricities of the case as we are able to view it and Puggle, your post about what we do and don't know gives me the 'cojones' to share my thoughts.
This case is so tied up in the exposure of the paedophile ring. It's so valuable to the police to have the public focussing so strongly on odd behaviours and suspicious people in the area and the image of little William in people's minds is so important to it. What if.... There is some knowledge that he is okay even though not with the family that wants him back...but rather than the police going in and grabbing him, they are playing a game with the permission of the FM and FF in order to continue exposing this ring that has the potential to harm so many children over time.
What if these are two investigations going on?
It's also really hard to type my other thought...if they had evidence that William had already passed away then a similar event scenario may exist with the family allowing the investigation to continue to unpeeled the layers of evil and keep other children safe in the future.
There I said it!
My opinion only but what do you think?
Hope there's no typos cos I have to go to work!

 

[Bohemian]

Judge Flannery stated the two charges were “representative counts” and “part of a course of conduct”.

Prosecutor Brendan Queenan submitted that the extensive publicity surrounding this case had effectively punished Jones outside the court system.

“It is above and beyond what you might expect,” Mr Queenan told the court.

Defence lawyer Stephen Wright told the court that Jones had not been taking his medication for a mental health condition and had been drinking to excess at the time of the offences.

“He is deeply ashamed of what he has done,” Mr Wright said.

Mr Wright acknowledged Jones “has an extensive criminal history but not for offences such as these”..............

The sentence was reduced to take into account that Jones’ early pleas of guilty had “utilitarian value” within the justice system.

Judge Flannery also considered that Jones has been held in protective custody for 12 months prior to sentencing. Jones has told the court “12 months felt like three years” under the strict contact conditions and only up to one hour of exercise per day.

Jones will become eligible for parole on 26 September 2016.

Judge Flannery indicated he should then be able to attend a sexual offenders program.

According to the judge .. no offences such as these.
Extensive publicity ... didn't we only learn about AJ about a week before sentencing?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/to...544057826?sv=d36f453d89e1faf18820774e1b705852

When Judge Flannery talks about 'representative counts' and 'parts of a course of conduct' he's referring to the fact that there were more sexual assaults of the particular child (ie, his 11 year old female victim) by AJ than the charges brought against him, is all I can gather; but I'm no lawyer.

Australian Government, Australian Law Reform Commission, Section 25, Sexual Offences, Persistent sexual abuse of a child:

"For example, in the revised South Australian provision, reference to ‘persistent sexual abuse of a child’ was replaced with ‘persistent sexual exploitation of a child’. The offence now focuses on acts of sexual exploitation that comprise a course of conduct, rather than requiring a series of separate particularised offences."

https://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/25. Sexual Offences/persistent-sexual-abuse-child#_ftn125

Crimes Act 1900 (NSW), Section 66EA, 'Persistent sexual abuse of a child':

"(1) A person who, on 3 or more separate occasions occurring on separate days during any period, engages in conduct in relation to a particular child that constitutes a sexual offence is liable to imprisonment for 25 years.

(2) It is immaterial whether or not the conduct is of the same nature, or constitutes the same offence, on each occasion.

(3) It is immaterial that the conduct on any of those occasions occurred outside New South Wales, so long as the conduct on at least one of those occasions occurred in New South Wales.

(4) In proceedings for an offence against this section, it is not necessary to specify or to prove the dates or exact circumstances of the alleged occasions on which the conduct constituting the offence occurred."

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s66ea.html

 

[frogwell]

Another thought, a white car has been viewed in similar vicinity recently to where the FM saw the 2 cars, on a real estate campaign and by a WS member visiting the area. Could police have parked a similar vehicle there to jog peoples memories? I know they do things like that in some investigations but I am only aware of that cause they publicize it.