Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[SouthAussie]

(quote)
Charges Withdrawn

Did the Prosecution withdraw the charges?

If you have charge sheets and the prosecution have decided to withdraw all your charges then the matter is over.

If they withdraw charges rather than have them dismissed they can re-lay them at some later point. With a lot of summary matters there are time limits for charges to be laid. It is very rare that charges get laid again at a later point and our firm has not had a case where they have been. It is pretty clear when cases are being withdrawn what the real reason is (ie no proper identification evidence etc).

If the matter was a “Notice to Appear” the withdrawal of that Notice does not mean that they will not be proceeding. It may mean that the charges are withdrawn, but if an Informant is busy they might withdraw the Notice and issue charges at a later point

Normally a withdrawal of charges is an acknowledgement that they can not prove you guilty of the charges.
Withdrawing charges

Charges certainly can still be laid again later, if the circumstances change .. whether that is the 'norm' or not, according to the lawyer quoted in your post.

The matter will now go into Vic Police records (only) and can be used for informational purposes or for additional charges in the future, perhaps depending on the findings of the Victorian strike force that was established to look into Victorian matters further.

As we previously noted, a strike force was established to investigate in Victoria, not just one or two detectives. That indicates that this could be a matter of some larger significance, involving a prolonged and detailed investigation. imo

Charges not proven or withdrawn
These types of unproven offences will be noted on the internal system of the Victorian Police department, but will not be formally included in your criminal record that potential employers may request access to.
A Guide to Criminal Records in Victoria - Intercheck

The court was told police expected to lay more charges, and a Victorian strike force has been set up to investigate further allegations south of the border.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[Karinna]

Charges certainly can still be laid again later, if the circumstances change .. whether that is the 'norm' or not, according to the lawyer quoted in your post.

The matter will now go into Vic Police records (only) and can be used for informational purposes or for additional charges in the future, depending on the findings of the Victorian strike force that was established to look into Victorian matters further.

As we previously noted, a strike force was established to investigate in Victoria, not just one or two detectives. That indicates that this could be a matter of some larger significance, involving a prolonged and detailed investigation. imo

Charges not proven or withdrawn
These types of unproven offences will be noted on the internal system of the Victorian Police department, but will not be formally included in your criminal record that potential employers may request access to.
A Guide to Criminal Records in Victoria - Intercheck

The court was told police expected to lay more charges, and a Victorian strike force has been set up to investigate further allegations south of the border.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

I think i will just go with what the lawyers say thanks.
Unless you are privy to what goes on behind the scenes i don't think its known to the public.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think i will just go with what the lawyers say thanks.
Unless you are privy to what goes on behind the scenes i don't think its known to the public.

No worries. I just don't want others to get the impression that future charges cannot or will not be laid, in this regard. Because they can and could be, for all we know. We just don't know.

 

[frogwell]

RSBM
As we previously noted, a strike force was established to investigate in Victoria, not just one or two detectives. That indicates that this could be a matter of some larger significance, involving a prolonged and detailed investigation. imo

Charges not proven or withdrawn
These types of unproven offences will be noted on the internal system of the Victorian Police department, but will not be formally included in your criminal record that potential employers may request access to.
A Guide to Criminal Records in Victoria - Intercheck

The court was told police expected to lay more charges, and a Victorian strike force has been set up to investigate further allegations south of the border.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

BBM

I wasn't aware a strikeforce was established in relation to BS Victorian charges. Taskforce Sano was already established to generally deal with historical child sexual assault complaints. As far as I remember.
Victoria Police - Royal Commission into Institutional Response to Child Abuse

 

[frogwell]

Dropped for VIC, no MSM article with the NSW outcome published...so I guess time will tell, once a suppression order is sorted IMO

I don't understand, ACA, mentioned both the Victorian and NSW charges are dropped. I think we can infer from what the journo says, it includes all the charges. IMO. It is MSM and if there is a suppression order ACA are not following it.
https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-a...wfbf8z1p/17c0fae3-ef48-4307-87ca-f2b6883b9759
3.14 to 3.30

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM

I wasn't aware a strikeforce was established in relation to BS Victorian charges. Taskforce Sano was already established to generally deal with historical child sexual assault complaints. As far as I remember.
Victoria Police - Royal Commission into Institutional Response to Child Abuse

Yes, according to the Telegraph a strike force was set up ... directly relating to charges against Spedding (and perhaps involving others imo - otherwise, why a strike force?)

The article does not mention Taskforce Sano, so I cannot presume that as an already-established strike force it is the same one that is spoken of in the article. Sano was formed to investigate child sex abuse involving Religious and Non-Government Organisations.


On Wednesday a team of detectives arrested Spedding at his Bonny Hills home and charged him with five counts of child sexual assault and two counts of common assault.
He was denied bail at a brief hearing in Port Macquarie yesterday.

The court was told police expected to lay more charges, and a Victorian strike force has been set up to investigate further allegations south of the border.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
April 23, 2015

 

[frogwell]

Yes, a direct quote from Magistrate Saines says that the Vic charges were withdrawn. I have no idea what SM is rumouring ... but a direct quote from the ruling magistrate is definitely the accurate way to go.

Also, ACA doesn't state which charges were dropped. They just said that 'the' charges were dropped. They do not state which case that happened in, or which charges were dropped.
There were multiple charges in each of the cases. There is no accuracy to be gained from the ACA video. imo


But prosecutors withdrew the 67-year-old’s charges in the Ballarat Magistrates’ Court today.
“I will mark all charges as withdrawn,” Magistrate Ronald Saines said.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
August 9, 2018

ACA at the 3:04 min mark:
"Mr Spedding .. the charges, now that the charges have been dropped you must be a relieved man, you must be willing to clear your name?"
https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-a...wfbf8z1p/17c0fae3-ef48-4307-87ca-f2b6883b9759

BBM
3.14 - 3.30 of the ACA segment

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't understand, ACA, mentioned both the Victorian and NSW charges are dropped. I think we can infer from what the journo says, it includes all the charges. IMO. It is MSM and if there is a suppression order ACA are not following it.
Victoria Police - Royal Commission into Institutional Response to Child Abuse
3.14 to 3.30

Oh sorry ... it is further into the video. I heard it on the 3rd listen. The voiceover did say "since charges in NSW and Victoria were sensationally dropped".

However, we know that the ones in Vic were withdrawn. I wonder what the proper disposition of the NSW ones are - as no charges are actually dropped, they are withdrawn, dismissed, or upheld/prosecuted - and if ACA have any accuracy?

 

[frogwell]

Oh sorry ... it is further into the video. I heard it on the 3rd listen. It did say since charges in NSW and Victoria were sensationally dropped.

However, we know that the ones in Vic were withdrawn. I wonder what the proper disposition of the NSW ones are, and if ACA are accurate?

So sensational, that people following this case have pretty much missed it. I always thought when they showed footage of BS and MS leaving court without talking to them that it was a way of indicating that the NSW charges had been dealt with.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[SouthAussie]

So sensational, that people following this case have pretty much missed it. I always thought when they showed footage of BS and MS leaving court without talking to them that it was a way of indicating that the NSW charges had been dealt with.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Perhaps. Margaret did look pretty smug. Spedding, not so much.

Probably missed it because I was listening more to the ACA journo than to the voiceover. And it was the voiceover that stated that, not the journo.

 

[Blues Clues]

Oh sorry ... it is further into the video. I heard it on the 3rd listen. The voiceover did say "since charges in NSW and Victoria were sensationally dropped".

However, we know that the ones in Vic were withdrawn. I wonder what the proper disposition of the NSW ones are - as no charges are actually dropped, they are withdrawn, dismissed, or upheld/prosecuted - and if ACA have any accuracy?

Further on at 3.19 Marshall says

"this is the first time the new look Spedding has been seen since child sex charges against him in NSW and Vic were sensationally dropped"

https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-a...wfbf8z1p/17c0fae3-ef48-4307-87ca-f2b6883b9759

 

[SouthAussie]

Further on at 3.19 Marshall says

"this is the first time the new look Spedding has been seen since child sex charges against him in NSW and Vic were sensationally dropped"

https://www.9now.com.au/a-current-a...wfbf8z1p/17c0fae3-ef48-4307-87ca-f2b6883b9759

Yes, thanks ... got it. I had already changed my post to reflect that.
I wasn't paying too much attention to the voiceover, was trying to hear what the journo was saying while the voiceover was speaking.

So, were they withdrawn in both instances, I wonder. We know they were in Vic. Perhaps keeping their options open in both states?

 

[Blues Clues]

Yes, thanks ... got it. I had already changed my post to reflect that.
I wasn't paying too much attention to the voiceover, was trying to hear what the journo was saying while the voiceover was speaking.

So, were they withdrawn in both instances, I wonder. Keeping their options open?

And my post was too slow, I didn't see your acknowledgement until after I had hit reply

 

[frogwell]

Yes, according to the Telegraph a strike force was set up ... directly relating to charges against Spedding (and perhaps involving others imo - otherwise, why a strike force?)

The article does not mention Taskforce Sano, so I cannot presume that as an already-established strike force it is the same one that is spoken of in the article. Sano was formed to investigate child sex abuse involving Religious and Non-Government Organisations.


On Wednesday a team of detectives arrested Spedding at his Bonny Hills home and charged him with five counts of child sexual assault and two counts of common assault.
He was denied bail at a brief hearing in Port Macquarie yesterday.

The court was told police expected to lay more charges, and a Victorian strike force has been set up to investigate further allegations south of the border.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
April 23, 2015

Taskforce Sano brought the charges against BS and have been mentioned in a number of articles relating to the Vic charges. Interestingly to me, when i put "Spedding" and "Taskforce Sano" into google I can't find 1 article. I do know it is in previous threads and will find a link to one or discussion about it from those threads tomorrow.

 

[SouthAussie]

Taskforce Sano brought the charges against BS and have been mentioned in a number of articles relating to the Vic charges. Interestingly to me, when i put "Spedding" and "Taskforce Sano" into google I can't find 1 article. I do know it is in previous threads and will find a link to one or discussion about it from those threads tomorrow.

Yes, I found this post by soso, saying that Sano was the prosecuting agency.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

It is very interesting ... considering that Sano were established to investigate Religious and Non-Government Organisation child sex crimes.

One would think that a straight historical child sex crime charge brought on by a now-adult person(s) would not require Sano's input.
Was Spedding linked to some religious or non-government organisation in Victoria? I sort of remember speculation that he could have been an associate of now-Cardinal Pell .... same time, same place, that kind of thing.
Why were the Vic charges withdrawn?
Was there an out-of-court settlement in the Vic case ... as so frequently happens with these types of crimes .... so the charges were then withdrawn?

 

[Karinna]

Yes, I found this post by soso, saying that Sano was the prosecuting agency.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

It is very interesting ... considering that Sano were established to investigate Religious and Non-Government Organisation child sex crimes.

One would think that a straight historical child sex crime charge brought on by a now-adult person(s) would not require Sano's input.
Was Spedding linked to some religious or non-government organisation in Victoria? I sort of remember speculation that he could have been an associate of now-Cardinal Pell .... same time, same place, that kind of thing.
Why were the Vic charges withdrawn?
Was there an out-of-court settlement in the Vic case ... as so frequently happens with these types of crimes .... so the charges were then withdrawn?

Doesn't Spedding go back to Court on the 20th. of this month for a costs hearing? Is that inclusive of any monetary settlements?

 

[SouthAussie]

Doesn't Spedding go back to Court on the 20th. of this month for a costs hearing? Is that inclusive of any monetary settlements?

There are no monetary settlements in a criminal case. Just in civil court cases where a person is suing another. I put some links up about that somewhere earlier.

If approved, he would only receive back any specific costs that were incurred due to the criminal proceedings. And if he had hired a Legal Aid lawyer, any legal cost reimbursement would go to Legal Aid, not him.

 

[sosocurious]

Yes, I found this post by soso, saying that Sano was the prosecuting agency.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

It is very interesting ... considering that Sano were established to investigate Religious and Non-Government Organisation child sex crimes.

One would think that a straight historical child sex crime charge brought on by a now-adult person(s) would not require Sano's input.
Was Spedding linked to some religious or non-government organisation in Victoria? I sort of remember speculation that he could have been an associate of now-Cardinal Pell .... same time, same place, that kind of thing.
Why were the Vic charges withdrawn?
Was there an out-of-court settlement in the Vic case ... as so frequently happens with these types of crimes .... so the charges were then withdrawn?

Court documents show the charges were laid after NSW police referred evidence to their Victorian counterparts last year, prompting an investigation that was codenamed Operation Overgrazing.

“There is evidence of other adult offenders who are complicit in similar child sex offences,” the court documents state.

Nocookies
William Spedding in court on sex charges

So operation overgrazing resulted in charges being made by Sano against BS and who?
BS charges have now been withdrawn. Has who's?

 

[Karinna]

There are no monetary settlements in a criminal case. Just in civil court cases where a person is suing another. I put some links up about that somewhere earlier.

If approved, he would only receive back any specific costs that were incurred due to the criminal proceedings. And if he had hired a Legal Aid lawyer, any legal cost reimbursement would go to Legal Aid, not him.

Ok, Thanks for clarifying.
I found this article in regard to Costs in Criminal matters
(quote)
Costs in criminal matters
[83-000] Introduction
Costs may be awarded to successful parties in criminal proceedings in the local court pursuant to four statutes: Criminal Procedure Act 1986, Costs in Criminal Cases Act 1967, Crimes Act 1900 and the Suitors’ Fund Act 1951. As a matter of policy, the Police Service, and Commonwealth and State Directors of Public Prosecution do not ordinarily apply for professional costs against unsuccessful defendants, although witness expenses and court costs may be sought. Private informants, and bodies such as councils, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals NSW and the Roads and Traffic Authority, however, will usually seek professional costs against unsuccessful defendants.

For non-criminal matters (proceedings by way of application notice), the power to award costs is found in s 69 Local Court Act 2007.
Costs in criminal matters

 

[Warshawski]

Thanks I’m Very much aware of this.

My thoughts posted intended no offence to you or your knowledge TBL.

They were just the thoughts that came to my mind .. a conversation attempted as if sitting around a table with friends... all working toward a common goal.