Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

[Bohemian]

The Registrar of the Coroners' Office has confirmed to a friend the Inquest dates are set at 25 to 29 March and 5 to 30 August. All dates are inclusive.

They are contacting Law Link to ascertain why the listing was changed. The dates given today are set.

Thank you for passing this information on, papertrail.

 

[iailwa]

It seems as if using a phone as a listening device without a warrant is a fairly serious accusation to make against a police officer, especially one of Jubes’ rank, to have one removed as the lead detective/OIC of an active investigation which is about to go to inquest. And, in reality, if (and that’s a very big if as Jubes has denied the allegation) it has happened, I can understand why. Not only would workplace rules have been broken but the law AFAIK. Let’s hope this isn’t the case. From what I’ve read, I believe Jubes’ pushes the envelope but I don’t think he is ignorant of the law or corrupt.

No me either (not corrupt, nor ignorant) & for a moment i forgot he denied the allegations, which i did read yesterday! So it's a matter of whether he had a warrant that enveloped what he heard perhaps, or not? Maybe that is the issue & he gathered more info than the warrant directed? Or maybe the warrant did not include a listening device? just thinking out loud. It just seems ludicrous they could take a top cop off the case

 

[JLZ]

I imagine this is a quiet time in the investigation of what happened to William. If strong leads were being actively pursued, the inquest wouldn't be happening now (in my opinion). I think it's a good thing that complaints are investigated and probably a good time to be doing it. I'm not awfully happy that this has been publicized; it would have been sufficient to do that after the outcome.

 

[iailwa]

The Registrar of the Coroners' Office has confirmed to a friend the Inquest dates are set at 25 to 29 March and 5 to 30 August. All dates are inclusive.

They are contacting Law Link to ascertain why the listing was changed. The dates given today are set.

let us know please PP if anything changes..

 

[iailwa]

No me either (not corrupt, nor ignorant) & for a moment i forgot he denied the allegations, which i did read yesterday! So it's a matter of whether he had a warrant that enveloped what he heard perhaps, or not? Maybe that is the issue & he gathered more info than the warrant directed? Or maybe the warrant did not include a listening device? just thinking out loud. It just seems ludicrous they could take a top cop off the case

Actually a warrant on a listening device cannot predict the info gathered. Do you think perhaps the listening device was perhaps a breech of the warrant - but possibly contentious, given what the warrant dictated? That could be the case... perhaps the warrant was a little elusive? or subclusive even? Ambiguous? And that is why Jubes has a case...?

 

[JLZ]

Undelete. I was saying that I wonder if Jubelin could argue that he made the recording in a private capacity, not as a police officer. Because people do use their phones to record stuff, without a warrant and without consent, seemingly with impunity.

 

[Bohemian]

I imagine this is a quiet time in the investigation of what happened to William. If strong leads were being actively pursued, the inquest wouldn't be happening now (in my opinion). I think it's a good thing that complaints are investigated and probably a good time to be doing it. I'm not awfully happy that this has been publicized; it would have been sufficient to do that after the outcome.

I agree with you that complaints should be investigated, especially amongst those who are sworn to uphold the law. Yes, it’s probably the publicising of the allegations that bother me most but also the timing. Someone needs to put their finger very firmly in the big leak emanating from SFR; especially given that earlier allegations about Jubes and Lambert having a dust-up made it to print last year.

 

[sosocurious]

It seems as if using a phone as a listening device without a warrant is a fairly serious accusation to make against a police officer, especially one of Jubes’ rank, to have one removed as the lead detective/OIC of an active investigation which is about to go to inquest. And, in reality, if (and that’s a very big if as Jubes has denied the allegation) it has happened, I can understand why. Not only would workplace rules have been broken but the law AFAIK. Let’s hope this isn’t the case. From what I’ve read, I believe Jubes’ pushes the envelope but I don’t think he is ignorant of the law or corrupt.

I agree.
The timing of this drama and the online glitches wow. When exactly was Jubes supposed to have used his phone as an illegal listening device? Recently or in years previous?
It seems to me if the allegations are so serious and there is any concrete proof, you would think Jubes would have been stood down from all homicide cases not just Rosann.
Misconduct is misconduct. Regardless of what case you are investigating. (well alleged misconduct).
imo

 

[Bohemian]

I agree.
The timing of this drama and the online glitches wow. When exactly was Jubes supposed to have used his phone as an illegal listening device? Recently or in years previous?
It seems to me if the allegations are so serious and there is any concrete proof, you would think Jubes would have been stood down from all homicide cases not just Rosann.
Misconduct is misconduct. Regardless of what case you are investigating. (well alleged misconduct).
imo

BBM. Which makes me wonder if this is just an internal HR issue, peculiar to SFR. One one hand, it seems like that to me.

On the other, has he been stood down as lead detective of other cases and that just hasn’t reached our shell-likes? Surely not.

 

[iailwa]

I agree.
The timing of this drama and the online glitches wow. When exactly was Jubes supposed to have used his phone as an illegal listening device? Recently or in years previous?
It seems to me if the allegations are so serious and there is any concrete proof, you would think Jubes would have been stood down from all homicide cases not just Rosann.
Misconduct is misconduct. Regardless of what case you are investigating. (well alleged misconduct).
imo

That is a great question SoSo, when did this misconduct occur???? It gives thought to the possibility that someone didn't want him there

 

[iailwa]

Undelete. I was saying that I wonder if Jubelin could argue that he made the recording in a private capacity, not as a police officer. Because people do use their phones to record stuff, without a warrant and without consent, seemingly with impunity.

I'm not sure a police officer can wear different hats? But yes that could be so.. in a social situation? what if hey?

 

[JLZ]

BBM. Which makes me wonder if this is just an internal HR issue, peculiar to SFR. It seems like it to me.

He said in the book Soso linked that working for him you'd be up for 48 hours at a time and miss a few family functions (but he's empathic, mind!) Also that he made 10 mistakes before 10 o'clock but that was okay because they weren't mistakes due to laziness. I thought it sounded nightmarish. You wouldn't want to be breastfeeding, for a start. If the complaint is about his management style, and staff were having nervous breakdowns and losing their marriages due to overwork, it's understandable that he's been sidelined from supervision while that's examined.

 

[iailwa]

I think either the neighbour or scrap metal guy did it - can't wait for whoever it was - to be convicted!!!! with a long term in prison! I so want justice for little William.. i hate these people, all of the suspects even!
Just venting, sorry! He needs justcie!

 

[Bohemian]

He said in the book Soso linked that working for him you'd be up for 48 hours at a time and miss a few family functions (but he's empathic, mind!) Also that he made 10 mistakes before 10 o'clock but that was okay because they weren't mistakes due to laziness. I thought it sounded nightmarish. You wouldn't want to be breastfeeding, for a start. If the complaint is about his management style, and staff were having nervous breakdowns and losing their marriages due to overwork, it's understandable that he's been sidelined from supervision while that's examined.

Are you saying that his standards for himself and others may border on the impossibly high? That’s possible, I s’pose. I’d say Homicide is not for the faint of heart.

 

[iailwa]

He said in the book Soso linked that working for him you'd be up for 48 hours at a time and miss a few family functions (but he's empathic, mind!) Also that he made 10 mistakes before 10 o'clock but that was okay because they weren't mistakes due to laziness. I thought it sounded nightmarish. You wouldn't want to be breastfeeding, for a start. If the complaint is about his management style, and staff were having nervous breakdowns and losing their marriages due to overwork, it's understandable that he's been sidelined from supervision while that's examined.

Oh i never heard that, but i know he's very dedicated... Not everyone is as dedicated understandably

 

[Bohemian]

Found a plain language version of the Act dealing with listening devices in NSW:

Legal Guide to Surveillance Legislation in NSW

At first glance, it seems to me that it’s illegal to use your phone as a listening device; police officer or no.

 

[JLZ]

Are you saying that his standards for himself and others may border on the impossibly high? That’s possible, I s’pose.

I don't know. If that's the subject of the investigation, the outcome might be that certain things are expected in the homicide team and people who aren't up to it--the staff who are complaining, that is--should get out. But I would think that with a serious complaint of that nature, perhaps from multiple people, it's reasonable that the supervisor of whom complaints have been made should be removed from a position of potentially doing further harm until the matter has been assessed.

 

[sosocurious]

Deleted

 

[Bohemian]

I don't know. If that's the subject of the investigation, the outcome might be that certain things are expected in the homicide team and people who aren't up to it should get out. But I would think that with a serious complaint of that nature, perhaps from multiple people, it's reasonable that the supervisor of whom complaints have been made should be removed from a position of potentially doing further harm until the matter has been assessed.

If there are officers off on stress leave, that would be an OH&S requirement, I s’pose. Think of the bottom line.

 

[iailwa]

I've never been a Bill Spedding advocate for committing this crime, although i don't like his history. It could be him of course... but now that it's so close i just wanna say - i don't think so. What's your thoughts anyone ? I reckon we'll be all surprised... if it was someone else... but i reckon it is sad face it's someone else beside this beast