Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[purpleandgreen]

bbm
Agreed, but plenty have on his behalf. IMO

Do you have a link for that, please froggy. I haven't seen that article.

 

[k-mac]

BBM - May I ask what Court you are talking about? I'm not understanding.

Bowraville specifically as discussed few posts before.

 

[frogwell]

Having been the lead detective on this case for about 4 years, will GJ take the stand at some stage of the inquest to outline the investigation? How do you think it is determined, what is relevant to be examined and questioned in front of the coroner and what is self explanatory by statements alone?

 

[frogwell]

Do you have a link for that, please froggy. I haven't seen that article.

If you read back through the last 3 pages of posts there are links in plenty of members posts and also the opinions of members themselves.

 

[SouthAussie]

I notice that the Australian Missing Persons Register is also throwing their full weight behind Jubes. An unusual stance for them to take. imo

I wont put the link up, in case anyone thinks it is not allowed, but it can easily be found if anyone is interested in their fight for Jubes.

 

[purpleandgreen]

If you read back through the last 3 pages of posts there are links in plenty of members posts and also the opinions of members themselves.

Yes I'm up to date, but haven't seen the articles. Never mind. It's not really relevant anyway. And the truth will no doubt come out - eventually. Even if we have to wait for a bio pic or a book. IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Bowraville specifically as discussed few posts before.

Just bouncing off your post ....

And, as I am sure most are aware, Bowraville was not Jubes case to begin with. There were years of questionable police work done (and work not done) on this case, prior to Jubes taking it over.

I feel that it is difficult to pin any court's decision on Jubes ... when the prior police work by others was seriously lacking, and by the time that Jubes got the case - years later - much evidence would simply be irretrievable.

A sad statement on the lack of adequate positive attention our indigenous people used to receive from the authorities. imo

 

[sleepinoz]

bbm
Agreed, but plenty have on his behalf. IMO

It's a bit like people defending BS for his historical charges prior to any court hearing. Many were pleading "Innocent until proven Guilty". Some of those same people are now crucifying GJ even though the same should apply - "Innocent until proven Guilty". And I add for much less horrific actions than what BS was charged for.

People will have differences, but it amazes me that if you have a moral reason for stating innocence of some, how those morals and opinions can change because of personal likes or dislikes - or even personal history and agenda's.

All my own opinion.

 

[sleepinoz]

Bowraville specifically as discussed few posts before.

Thank you for responding.

As SA has pointed out, both Bowraville and Matthew Levesons cases were not initially GJ's cases - for that matter either was Williams. They seem to throw him the hard cases due to his tenacity and record or getting results.

 

[sleepinoz]

Having been the lead detective on this case for about 4 years, will GJ take the stand at some stage of the inquest to outline the investigation? How do you think it is determined, what is relevant to be examined and questioned in front of the coroner and what is self explanatory by statements alone?

That will only be determined by the Coroner.

As she is asking for video etc of the initial search, it's obvious to me that she is painstakingly going through the Police brief presented.

 

[k-mac]

Although, as I am sure most are aware, Bowraville was not Jubes case to begin with. There were years of questionable police work done (and work not done) on this case, prior to Jubes taking it over.

I feel that it is difficult to pin any court's decision on Jubes ... when the prior police work by others was seriously lacking, and by the time that Jubes got the case - years later - much evidence would simply be irretrievable.

A sad statement on the lack of adequate positive attention our indigenous people used to receive from the authorities. imo

this post is tagged at me as if I am questioning his worth.
quite the opposite as my original post stated.
someone else questioned his previous value.

 

[SouthAussie]

this post is tagged at me as if I am questioning his worth.
quite the opposite as my original post stated.
someone else questioned his previous value.

Sorry, k-mac. I have gone back and prefixed my post so it is understood I wasn't disputing your words.
My apologies.

 

[frogwell]

It's a bit like people defending BS for his historical charges prior to any court hearing. Many were pleading "Innocent until proven Guilty". Some of those same people are now crucifying GJ even though the same should apply - "Innocent until proven Guilty". And I add for much less horrific actions than what BS was charged for.

People will have differences, but it amazes me that if you have a moral reason for stating innocence of some, how those morals and opinions can change because of personal likes or dislikes - or even personal history and agenda's.

All my own opinion.

I agree, it's exactly the same, and you agree BS was crucified for years? Or to put it another way, many want innocence until proven guilty to apply to GJ when it was not extended to POI who has not been charged for anything in WT's case and actuually appears to have had other charges brought against him dealt with so he is walking around as a free man, through the media for years. Most posters on here display hypocrisy about players in this case, myself included. It's human. Dare I say that particularly in relation to the example you have given of GJ and BS that it might even be karmic? If a police person has resort to illegal activity to try to secure a conviction then surely the conviction will always be in doubt and may even point to being incompetence in their profession if found guilty?IMO

 

[k-mac]

Sorry, k-mac. I have gone back and prefixed my post so it is understood I wasn't disputing your words.
My apologies.

appreciate that.
we all know how easy it is to get misquoted and misread around here!

 

[JLZ]

It's a bit like people defending BS for his historical charges prior to any court hearing. Many were pleading "Innocent until proven Guilty". Some of those same people are now crucifying GJ even though the same should apply - "Innocent until proven Guilty". And I add for much less horrific actions than what BS was charged for.

People will have differences, but it amazes me that if you have a moral reason for stating innocence of some, how those morals and opinions can change because of personal likes or dislikes - or even personal history and agenda's.

All my own opinion.

I will give some people more doubt-benefit because of who they are. When Ristevski was charged, I gave up hope that he was innocent. Jubelin's charged, I'll wait and see. That's speaking at a social level. If I was on a jury, it would be different, and I'd apply the presumption of innocence to everyone.

 

[sleepinoz]

I agree, it's exactly the same, and you agree BS was crucified for years? Or to put it another way, many want innocence until proven guilty to apply to GJ when it was not extended to POI who has not been charged publically through the media for years. Most posters on here display hypocrisy about players in this case, myself included. It's human. IMO

No I don't actually agree that he was crucified for years, not here anyway - maybe by MSM.

You say a "POI who has not been charged publically through the media for years" - yes he was a named POI and also charged with Historical Sexual Abuse. No he hasn't been charged in regard to Williams case, but he's not off the hook either is he? According to MSM he is to be called up at the Inquest and even has legal representation. And as many are quoting WS TOS allows members to give opinions on named POI's.

I do think some are trying to justify their hatred they are showing towards GJ by changing their opinions/morals in regard to innocent until proven guilty. I think some will be surprised by what information the Task Force have - led by GJ.

 

[SouthAussie]

I will give some people more doubt-benefit because of who they are. When Ristevski was charged, I gave up hope that he was innocent. Jubelin's charged, I'll wait and see. That's speaking at a social level. If I was on a jury, it would be different, and I'd apply the presumption of innocence to everyone.

I will go even further than this and say that whether not guilty or guilty of said charges, it will be important to see if the said illegal recordings are used by the Coroner to benefit William's case/inquest.

If Jubes is taking the fall, rightly or wrongly, for these recordings, it well may be a risk he was willing to take for the benefit of William and his families.

As someone said earlier, I think it was Warsh, it is not as if an officer can say "Is it okay if I record this convo? Now go ahead and confess or give me some clues as to your potential involvement in William's disappearance and demise".

If there was not enough for a warrant for secret recordings, then the frustration of the police just grows and grows. They cant force a person to speak, they cant force 'someone who knows' to speak. They can only do their best to appeal to them, to appeal to their families, and if that doesn't work .. then what? The person just goes unchecked/free, perhaps abusing other little children and continuing to get away with it?

Jubes has always seemed very victim-focused. This does not always fit within the police rules or the law.
So while we (not you) can say he may have done wrong, crucify him, ignore his prior works, just focus on the negative, many people 'socially' and with 'public strength/strength of the masses' are right behind him - because of that focus on delivering for the victims.

imo

 

[sleepinoz]

I agree, it's exactly the same, and you agree BS was crucified for years? Or to put it another way, many want innocence until proven guilty to apply to GJ when it was not extended to POI who has not been charged for anything in WT's case and actuually appears to have had other charges brought against him dealt with so he is walking around as a free man, through the media for years. Most posters on here display hypocrisy about players in this case, myself included. It's human. Dare I say that particularly in relation to the example you have given of GJ and BS that it might even be karmic? If a police person has resort to illegal activity to try to secure a conviction then surely the conviction will always be in doubt and may even point to being incompetence in their profession if found guilty?IMO

Oh you added some extra points whilst I was responding.

Karmic? why would you say that? Are you saying that GJ deserves these charges for the way BS was treated? That's a bit over the top IMO. GJ wasn't on the case when BS properties were searched, background investigation brought up the historical charges. Now if he wasn't charged for the historical charges would people be saying that it's GJ's fault that he wasn't charged? Hypocrisy at it's best.

GJ is not the only person on the Task Force, I'm sure that he is not the one that personally goes around and collects evidence. Many officers would be doing most of the leg work.

Incompetent in their profession if found guilty? Exactly what I'm talking about in my original post.

 

[JLZ]

I will go even further than this and say that whether not guilty or guilty of said charges, it will be important to see if the said illegal recordings are used by the Coroner to benefit William's case/inquest.

If Jubes is taking the fall, rightly or wrongly, for these recordings, it well may be a risk he was willing to take for the benefit of William and his families.

As someone said earlier, I think it was Warsh, it is not as if an officer can say "Is it okay if I record this convo? Now go ahead and confess or give me some clues as to your potential involvement in William's disappearance and demise".

If there was not enough for a warrant for secret recordings, then the frustration of the police just grows and grows. They cant force a person to speak, they cant force 'someone who knows' to speak. They can only do their best to appeal to them, to appeal to their families, and if that doesn't work .. then what? The person just goes unchecked/free, perhaps abusing other little children and continuing to get away with it?

Jubes has always seemed very victim-focused. This does not always fit within the police rules or the law.
So while we (not you) can say he may have done wrong, crucify him, ignore his prior works, just focus on the negative, many people 'socially' and with 'public strength/strength of the masses' are right behind him - because of that focus on delivering for the victims.

imo

No, I think I'm more in alignment with Frogwell on the hypothetical. Police officers need to work within the law regardless of feelings of frustration. But I hope it won't come to that, or if it does, that the breach was minor and unintentional.

 

[SouthAussie]

No, I think I'm more in alignment with Frogwell on the hypothetical. Police officers need to work within the law regardless of feelings of frustration. But I hope it won't come to that, or if it does, that the breach was minor and unintentional.

It is a sad statement for our laws that our officers are not more protected and given more tools to catch the uncooperative perps.
Just as it is a sad statement that our courts let crims go with a slap on the wrist, when they have completely devastated someone else's life.

Speaking of tools to assist and a little O/T , but as an example..... I saw yesterday that, in Japan, officers fire paintballs at a fleeing perp's car, bright orange paint that is hard to remove. They do this so the perp cant hide away very well and people will know they are a perp.
No-one can sue them for damaging the car's paintwork. It is part of their protection and part of doing their job.