Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[caroline]

I think if Caylee was at one time buried in the sand box, there would be sand, even if it were a very small amount, mentioned in the autopsy. She might have laid her body on top of the sandbox for a short period of time, but long enough so that the dogs would pick up the scent of decomp.

Do we know that at age 2 years 10 months that Caylee weighed 40 lbs? I have a foster daughter this age that weighs in at 27/28 pounds and appears the same size as Caylee.

 

[Devon]

But i'd think at this point a year later, she'd drop the lie, knowing her life is depending on her telling the truth.

It's too late for that! She is now known to have lied about almost every aspect of her life, so who would believe anything she might say now? IMO, if it was an accident, she burnt all her bridges the minute she placed Caylee in the trunk and drove away from Hopespring Drive!

 

[Reznor]

I think if Caylee was at one time buried in the sand box, there would be sand, even if it were a very small amount, mentioned in the autopsy. She might have laid her body on top of the sandbox for a short period of time, but long enough so that the dogs would pick up the scent of decomp.

Do we know that at age 2 years 10 months that Caylee weighed 40 lbs? I have a foster daughter this age that weighs in at 27/28 pounds and appears the same size as Caylee.

Bad guess on weight on my part. Looking up all facts before posting is somewhat troublesome. Sorry! 30lbs would be a big hole to dig in the sand too.

Do we know there wasn't sand in the black plastic bag? I don't know? Would there be sand mixed in with the plastic bag? I would think so. Isn't sand all over Florida? Also, I think she carried a dead Caylee out of the house in the clothes hamper. I don't think she buried Caylee in the sand box. She put her in the sandbox while in the clothes hamper.

 

[JBean]

It's too late for that! She is now known to have lied about almost every aspect of her life, so who would believe anything she might say now? IMO, if it was an accident, she burnt all her bridges the minute she placed Caylee in the trunk and drove away from Hopespring Drive!

Funny you should mention. We have local case where a young 19yo went missing.She was last seen with a no goodnick from Craigslist and as in this case all evidence pointed to this POI. He had all kinds of incriminating behavior.
He ran to Florida and was caught coincidentally on another charge.

he finally copped a plea and told the parents what happened. he said he injected her with a speedball and when they woke up the next morning she was dead. he panicked and took her body out to the ocean and dumped it. he scrubbed all her DNA from everywhere he could think of, painted his truck, etc, etc. and went to great lengths to cover it up.

he got 5 years for involuntary manslaughter because he told them when backed in a corner that it was an accident. So while the cases are very different , he did get to cop a plea even though he covered his tracks and by all appearances, imo, it was just out and out murder and he made up his story. His sentence is an insult to the family.

My point is that he hid the body, covered his tracks, disposed of evidence, lied through his teeth and was still able to get off with declaring it an accident followed by panic!

Probably too much info and fftopic: but this is a fresh case and I still can't make sense of it. Did I mention he was an RSO?

 

[Trailerparkgirl]

I feel the exact same and agree 100% with your suggested scenario. I had no strong opinon on the chloroform before today...well, now I do. As horrid as it is, the evidence of chloroform gives me comfort. I have to believe that Caylee was unconcious when that tape was placed on her face. I can't bear it any other way. Right now, I'm going to believe that. I have to.

i agree with you...
and to think (in the beginning) i actually thought it might have been accidental death...!!!

well im thinking she chloroformed her, duct taped her and (as someone else said) let the duct tape do the dirty work of killing caylee....

it's getting clearer now...but im still trying to put some pieces together...ie. the cadaver dog hitting in the back yard??

 

[USARDOG]

I'm not sure about the chloroform. I think I need more tox reports to add this to my conclusion but ITA with everything else you said.

The dogs hit in the back yard for decomp. Do you think she kept her in the sand box a few days? Maybe borrowing the neighbor's shovel to bury her in the back yard. You would need a big hole to bury 40 lbs. The sand would complicate digging a large whole. She couldn't do it. Put the child in the trunk of the car and tossed her in the wooded lot?

i would think Caylee was only in the back yard a very short time. like a dog burying a bone, KC thought first of her back yard, but as you state, she would have had to work to bury her, and kc is not about work. Besides, the back yard was the kingdom of GA, who would soon have fond something disturbing in his back yard.

You will never get the tox report you are looking for from the remains, the conclusion must be drawn from the content of the trunk and the very high chloroform level there.

 

[Reznor]

i would think Caylee was only in the back yard a very short time. like a dog burying a bone, KC thought first of her back yard, but as you state, she would have had to work to bury her, and kc is not about work. Besides, the back yard was the kingdom of GA, who would soon have fond something disturbing in his back yard.

You will never get the tox report you are looking for from the remains, the conclusion must be drawn from the content of the trunk and the very high chloroform level there.

Yes, I guess your right about what I want from the tox report. Is there comfort to be found in thinking she was chloroformed before her fate with the duct tape? I think so and so did Casey if it was used. IMO she just wanted rid of the child.

 

[Jolynna]

I read nothing in the report that suggests a struggle of any kind. As I read it, and putting other evidence together, it looks this way to me. Caylee was Chloroformed to knock her out, then duct tape was placed over her mouth and nose to suffocate her. This would have been very easy to do after the chloroform was used.

If this happened the night of the 15th and caylee stayed in her bed, with KC sleeping in her bed with the deceased Caylee in the same room or she was killed on the 16th in the morning, I do not know.

I would suggest many of the small bones were not found because they would have been of high cartilage content, and were likely consumed by small animals. in addition it would appear that some larger animal drug the lower portion of the skeleton off some distance and consumed some amount of the soft tissue.

Link to the complete report:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/caylee.anthony.autopsy.pdf

That is the thing, we don't really know that Caylee did not struggle. There was no flesh remaining to show bruises on the arms or neck. Caylee did not have eyes to show petechiae hemorrhages.

I hope she WAS drugged and unconscious when she died. But, I think Casey used the duct tape for a purpose.

 

[Shear22]

I agree 100% with this. The autopsy only concludes the tape was placed before decomposition began, not premortem (perimortem? am still having my morning cofee...).

I said months ago I think she may have died in bed with KC. Being on several 'crunchy parenting' boards myself and learning, a risk for death during co-sleeping is the parent's alcohol and/or drug usage. That they may roll over and suffocate the child being unaware. KC may not be a very large girl, but she was 3-4x Caylee's weight.

I believe the trunk, the duct tape, and the chloroform are all staging agents from someone desperate not to be blamed for Caylee's death. Even if the death was not from cosleeping, or even intentional I still think these were staging because they all are CLASSIC associations with kidnapping. I think it's overthinking to believe she attempted to kill Caylee with duct tape over her nose&mouth, then used or previously used chloroform, then drove around with her in the trunk as seperately come up with plans. Kidnapping-scenario makes a much more reasonable explanation including the placement in the trunk. It's all staging and I know nothing more now after reading the report than I did before.

If she had wanted to stage a kidnapping she would have ditched the car with Caylee in it immediately, rather than driving around with her in it for a few days and then commenting to Amy about the poor squirrels. Plus, there would be no reason for the multiple layers of duct tape. All the movies and TV shows that I've seen with kidnappings, there is one piece of duct tape over the mouth to keep the victim quiet. Lots of tape over both nose and mouth to me means deliberate suffocation.

As for co-sleeping, I've never heard of a child over the age of 16 months dying because of it. At nearly three years old I don't believe for one second that Caylee could have just randomly suffocated in bed.

 

[USARDOG]

I have pretty long hair myself and I know I it looks in the morning. I think that maybe Caylee was murdered while she was asleep by being smothered. That might explain the matting of the hair.

They have not reported any chloroform on that paper towel, the duct tape, or any of her clothing, or the winnie the pooh blanket in that report today. I am curious if there is more tox reports to come or if they tested any of that stuff for chloroform.

We all know they found chloroform in the trunk of the car on the liner. Well, wouldn't evidence of the chloroform be in her clothes, the blanket, duct tape?

Matting of a dead person's hair is I believe, quite natural and does not indicate any particular state or time the person passed.

Any material exposed to the atmosphere would readily have lost any and all traces of chloroform by evaporation, i.e. the pooh blanket etc. The chloroform in the trunk area was preserved by being in a closed and confined space.

 

[Spacegirl]

Most people would have called for help, but this is a girl who has been 'covering up' the reality of her entire life for a long time. She hid the truth of her own existence under an elaborate web of lies, deceit and fantasy, so what was most likely to be her first instinct if she found her child (the centre of her parent's world) dead because she had not been watching her properly? If this is what happened, I can quite imagine that her first coherent thoughts after the initial shock were 'my mother will NEVER forgive me', followed by 'I've got to hide the truth, get out of here, act normal and lie, lie, lie'!

Bold by me. I have never thought of the possibility that her lifetime of lies may actually help her in this case. I do not believe this theory for a second, and I hope to god no one on the jury does. She deserves no mercy. Someone who accidentally kills someone does not carry on in the way that she did. Partying like a rock star, getting tattoos (that say "life is beautiful" no less) and renting movies would be the very last thing on your mind. Any person with an ounce of decency would want to stay inside, close the blinds, shut out the world, sulk and beat themself up about it. I can almost see trying to act like everything is normal, but she acted like she had finally been set free. Not to mention, her photobucket icons tell me everything I need to know about her and more. She is a cold blooded killer.

I also do not believe the duct tape was a part of any sort of staging. This is a woman who commits check fraud in broad daylight, knowing there are surveillance cameras all around her. This is a woman who drove around with a dead child in her trunk for days. This is an arrogant young woman who believes no one is ever going to catch up to her games. And in the off chance they did, she wouldn't be held accountable anyway. G&C had always covered for her in the past. She probably thought they were easy to play, and would never actually pick up the phone and call 911. And knowing what they know now, I bet they wish they hadn't. My point is, she has no plans. She's never had any plans, and it always worked before.

Anyway, I am not convinced she had used chloroform on her in the past, but I do believe she had it on hand, knocked her out with it on the 16th, duct taped her little nose and mouth shut and let it suffocate her. I hope Caylee never woke up for this. This possibility also brings me comfort.

 

[Jolynna]

It's too late for that! She is now known to have lied about almost every aspect of her life, so who would believe anything she might say now? IMO, if it was an accident, she burnt all her bridges the minute she placed Caylee in the trunk and drove away from Hopespring Drive!

Multiple layers of duct tape mean duct taping for purpose not staging.

Putting tape over Caylee's mouth AND nose was literally overkill.

 

[Devon]

Funny you should mention. We have local case where a young 19yo went missing.She was last seen with a no goodnick from Craigslist and as in this case all evidence pointed to this POI. He had all kinds of incriminating behavior.
He ran to Florida and was caught coincidentally on another charge.

he finally copped a plea and told the parents what happened. he said he injected her with a speedball and when they woke up the next morning she was dead. he panicked and took her body out to the ocean and dumped it. he scrubbed all her DNA from everywhere he could think of, painted his truck, etc, etc. and went to great lengths to cover it up.

he got 5 years for involuntary manslaughter because he told them when backed in a corner that it was an accident. So while the cases are very different , he did get to cop a plea even though he covered his tracks and by all appearances, imo, it was just out and out murder and he made up his story. His sentence is an insult to the family.

My point is that he hid the body, covered his tracks, disposed of evidence, lied through his teeth and was still able to get off with declaring it an accident followed by panic!

Probably too much info and fftopic: but this is a fresh case and I still can't make sense of it. Did I mention he was an RSO?

I don't suppose he had a published history of having lied through his teeth about almost every other aspect of his life though?

 

[Jolynna]

Funny you should mention. We have local case where a young 19yo went missing.She was last seen with a no goodnick from Craigslist and as in this case all evidence pointed to this POI. He had all kinds of incriminating behavior.
He ran to Florida and was caught coincidentally on another charge.

he finally copped a plea and told the parents what happened. he said he injected her with a speedball and when they woke up the next morning she was dead. he panicked and took her body out to the ocean and dumped it. he scrubbed all her DNA from everywhere he could think of, painted his truck, etc, etc. and went to great lengths to cover it up.

he got 5 years for involuntary manslaughter because he told them when backed in a corner that it was an accident. So while the cases are very different , he did get to cop a plea even though he covered his tracks and by all appearances, imo, it was just out and out murder and he made up his story. His sentence is an insult to the family.

My point is that he hid the body, covered his tracks, disposed of evidence, lied through his teeth and was still able to get off with declaring it an accident followed by panic!

Probably too much info and fftopic: but this is a fresh case and I still can't make sense of it. Did I mention he was an RSO?

Before Caylee's remains were found, KC could have said she panicked, led LE to the body and copped a plea. She would have gotten a better deal than I think she'll get now.

I think she did not do that because she KNEW the way Caylee was left would look exactly like what it is.

 

[Jolynna]

I don't suppose he had a published history of having lied through his teeth about almost every other aspect of his life though?

JBean said he's a RSO.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I don't think you can realistically connect multiple layers of duct tape over the nose and mouth to anything other than cold blooded murder. An accidental death is ruled out very plainly with her behavior after the fact, the duct tape and the disposal of the body. I don't think this is going to be a hard one for a jury, there is truly a mountain of evidence in this case and it ALL points to Casey.

 

[MissJames]

That is the thing, we don't really know that Caylee did not struggle. There was no flesh remaining to show bruises on the arms or neck. Caylee did not have eyes to show petechiae hemorrhages.

I hope she WAS drugged and unconscious when she died. But, I think Casey used the duct tape for a purpose.

I agree with you.If Caylee was unconcious KC could have smothered her. I think KC wanted Caylee to suffer.:furious: In my head I imagine Caylee calling for Cindy and KC slapped tape over mouth. Then,well,it's just heartbreaking.

 

[impatientredhead]

i agree with you...
and to think (in the beginning) i actually thought it might have been accidental death...!!!

well im thinking she chloroformed her, duct taped her and (as someone else said) let the duct tape do the dirty work of killing caylee....

it's getting clearer now...but im still trying to put some pieces together...ie. the cadaver dog hitting in the back yard??

Before the reports were released I didn't believe she knocked her out first but now I do. I think it was 100% intentional and premeditated. Here is my take on the dogs, if you accept that the 18th was the shovel day and recall that the dogs hit in three places in the yard, one outside the slider to yard, near the pool and the one near the play area I think she was planning to bury her in the yard (also recall there was a small area of disturbed earth, like 6 inches by 11 or something)... I think she had her in the trunk 16-18th, backed into the garage, borrowed the shovel, carried the body out the slider, set her down, went to one spot to bury her then the other, and managed two scoops with the shovel (very Caseylike) before realizing this plan was not going to work. She only had the shovel for 45 minutes. The dogs would be able to pick up those spots if the body had only been their briefly. The three spots are literally the physcial manifestation of Casey's thought process that day. Get her in the yard, I'll bury her here, no digging is too much work, the sandbox area, no they will find her here, back in the trunk, shovel back to the neighbor.

I believe Caylee was knocked out because of there being no indication of a struggle, no nailmarks on the tape, not one friend said Casey was clawed up, AND the multiple pieces of tape layered over her face but not wrapped fully around her head..... well I think if you think about applying it in that manner, tearing the pieces of tape, positioning them it seems to me the victim is stationary and facing up not fighting for her life as she suffocates.

 

[impatientredhead]

I used to think it was staging as well until I read that the tape was also over the nose. A kidnapper would cover the mouth only, a murderer would cover both.

I have never understood the staging (or the fluid leakage) theory for the duct tape. The staging looks nothing like a kidnapping to me and to leave the "evidence" of the kidnapper out in the elements while you are arrested and possibly going to be executed sitting in jail makes no sense to me. If she did do this as staging to go hand in hand with her nanny story wouldn't she have told someone where to "find" the body.

We certainly know she is not opposed to spinning outrageous lies like they got a call, they warned her not to call the police, check this location, OMG look it's Caylee's body.

The reality is the evidence all came from the Anthony home, ties directly back to Casey, and she had no intent of those remains being found. That just doesn't seem like staging to me. That sounds like tossing unwanted "garbage" in the woods and hoping to never see it again. MOO

 

[JBean]

I don't suppose he had a published history of having lied through his teeth about almost every other aspect of his life though?

I would imagine as an RSO he had some pretty well documented whoppers. I am just going to guess that honesty was not his strong suit.

Don't want to go OT and I am not even saying the cases are similar in any respect except one. This dude murdered a young woman, disposed of her body, covered his tracks and lied about it.He was able to get a 5 year involuntary manslaughter charge and sentence and that is just wrong.