Autopsy

[raisincharlie]

so fill me in rc-- cause this is the only place i look- you guys all know what is going on at the other places--- what struck your mind on the page you are referencing?

Close was pointing out a post that the fellow who went to view Michelle's autopsy photos made - he was a tad surprised that a detective tried to get in touch with him about viewing the autopsy photos. I was curious why he would be surprised since he has zero connection to the case, not a family member, supposedly not in LE and not academia - of course LE is going to want to know who he is and why he went there to view those photos.

 

[j2mirish]

I'll answer your last question on this post J2. This is why I'm wondering right now - MYs wounds were deep and gaping. It was a very viscious attack. With the Vitale case, I was one of those thinking it was Dan - just programmed here, I guess. I was shocked to find out it was Dyleski. That case now gives me pause for consideration.

I was well on my way to thinking it was JY - still do in a sense but I would not be surprised at this point to learn it was someone else.

Since Close is not here I'll answer the question you have for her. RPD a poster at CTV, went to the ME's office to look at the autopsy photos. Today, I guess, LE paid a visit to his home and according to RPD, it "freaked" his wife. I guess the MEs office would report anyone.

thanks for your reply-( I'M THINKING I WOULD BE FLIPPING TOO IF LE SHOWED UP AT MY HOUSE !!!lol)

Just from what I have read, and pics I have seen of jy- I have to agree with you- by no means of the imagination am I defending him-- if he did it then I hope he rots in hell--I am just not sure he had it in him to do it--- but I have certainly been wrong before-

 

[Taximom]

Well, I still thank RPD for giving us a little more insight into the autopsy results. Although they were as horrid as I'd imagined. Not good bedtime reading.

Does anyone know if RPD was alone while viewing the pics? Could he have taken pics of the pics with a camera or cellphone camera? I hope not, but you never know.

I pray that she felt no pain shortly after the brutal attack. I also pray that sweet Cassidy will not remember any of what she saw that morning of her precious mommy. The little boy was only about 12" long and maybe about 1 lb in weight. He had no chance at all.

 

[Samiya]

Question 1: From the autopsy info do you know if it's possible that Michele was choked enough to cause unconsciousness first. No matter in that scenario to me if the first blow was to the mouth or that the throat bone (forgot what it's called, hy something) was broken. I just know that I was strangled into that degree one time, a long time ago.

Hi Strach....I made it in I've been very busy lately.

It is possible that Michelle may have been close to unconciousness, but unfortunately the AR suggests that her attempt to remove the cause was successful, hence the hit to the mouth most likely occurring directly afterwards. I do not believe that it was a fist that caused that amount of damage. The tongue may have been damaged due to that hit and began to swell...also see question 3

Question 2: This one is from a post on ctv about your opinion from the autopsy report that is posted here. If Michele was in a prone position is it a fact that her head would rest left or right side and not flat forward with the nose and forehead touching the floor? That's what someone else said and the blows to the back of the head would've caused trauma to the nose etc.

Yes, Scout is right, if a body is 'standard' prone on the floor the head will lean to one side. There are factors which change those 'leanings' of the head. They are when the arms (or an object) interfere with the normal positioning if a person was laying prone on the floor. One such position is where the arms are still in a defensive position with the arms on either side of the face. To write up everything and explain different positionings would take weeks.

Question 3: Just remembered, what do you think about the swollen tongue and protruding from her mouth? Also any ideas come to you from that or mention of it being bitten? I don't remember anything in the AR about it but any technical terms that may have indicated that I may not have understood.

That is hard to say as many things could have caused the tongue swelling. Most possibly the combination of injury blows, front and side with some cause by the attempted strangulation. The tongue is a large organ has large blood vessels and it is easy to cause swelling in that area of the mouth. If the swelling of the tongue caused/contributed to death, it would have been noted in the AR as either a major or minor factor.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Scout has every right to post his/her opinion on anything I have written here in WebSleuths, as do others, and I'm certainly not one to argue on basis of opinions as you've seen here, as all opinions/speculations are valid in considering we have no idea of the crime scene or positioning of Chelle upon her death. My opinions are based on my interpretations of what I read from the AR and are explanations of how different wounds can occur, other than the 'normal means', hence a later post to RaisinCharlie in regards to it possibly being a double injury site. This is also one of the reasons that, I post my AR opinions here and not at ctv. No not because of Scout, lol. But because here is where I want them to be so I am not running around from forum to forum posting my opinions as far as the AR is concerned. I find that people here discuss things rather than accept someone's opinions as 'fact'. My opinions here are not facts in regards to the case of Chelle. They are a talking point for discussion by everyone here, just like other opinions. To post my opinions over in ctv in part leads to a non complete 'assessment' by 'others' (again, Im not referring to Scout) of everything I've written.

OMG, I have to apologise as it sounds like I'm telling you off, but I'm not doing that.

Hugs
Sami

 

[Samiya]

Yes the ME would report to LE anyone who came to look at those photos. No wonder LE wants to talk to him, they want to know why the heck. That ought to answer alot of questions for several - LE is still actively investigating this case. Maybe he'll lawyer up...

Unfortunately I saw that one coming from miles away. When people go to view autopsy photos, whether LE or whomever, details are taken down of that person and kept on record. As this is an unsolved murder, regardless of the written 'bill', anyone viewing who is not a public official would be suspect as to "why did they want to see them". If RPD was reported by the ME office, then he will have some explaining to do as basically members of the public do not normally want to view autopsy photos of someone they are not related to unless they're media reporters getting a 'better understanding' of the victims suffering. Even then, reporters are not allowed to comment on what they actually saw in the photos. They can give a general 'story' on how much the victim suffered, but not many reporters will view Autopsy photos.

Sami

 

[Samiya]

Can you imagine the ME calling LE about someone coming to look at the photos! They would have to realize he is a student of criminology.

Hi Scandi,

Usually it is not the 'students' who access autopsy photos, it is the teachers and they usually only request photos from closed cases. Not sure about over there, but here ONLY the teacher/professor can access photos for teaching purposes and it is a lengthy application which involves concrete identification of the teacher and his/her credentials and place of employment.

Sami

 

[strach304]

Thanks Sami, I suppose it would take forever to actually go through various scenarios to pick at my particular interests for my questions on this thread and the other. They make it look so easy on tv

 

[Samiya]

Thanks Sami, I suppose it would take forever to actually go through various scenarios to pick at my particular interests for my questions on this thread and the other. They make it look so easy on tv

Lol you're welcome,

Scenario work alone is a process that could take weeks to months of work depending on the situation. It is faster if you have access to the crime scene first hand to be able to view everything but can still take the same amount of time. Yep, they do make it look easy on tv. I don't watch those shows as I tend to sit and criticise with "Oh yeah right", lol and my hubby just sits there and say "if you aint' gonna shut up P off".

To give a slight example of why it can take a long time...

You see something, say a beautiful bird which is yellow orange and green.
Seeing it is the easy part. Then you email me and say "I saw a yellow, orange and green bird today". Now, I imagine how beautiful this bird was but I can't because I didn't see it. You saw it.

So I email back and begin asking questions. From one question comes a series of more questions and so on. So by the end of it I have come from "I saw a beautiful yellow, orange and green bird" to "what made that bird appear to be yellow, orange and green" and how come it was yellow, orange and green and not green orange and yellow.

I haven't fully checked ctv, just did quick scroll throughs because lately the boards have been moving darn fast, lol. I blink and there's 5 more pages! I usually take notes of things that catch my eye in posts but with some removals, they're never usually on the page that I saw them on, lol. I do try to answer things as best I can when I see them, so if I've missed something feel free to send a pm as that will make sure I don't miss anything. And I'd be happy to give you my email address too. You just have to remember that they are opinions because if I 'knew' all the factual answers I can guarantee I'd be in deep doggy doo doo's for posting them here

Hugs for ya
Sami

 

[raisincharlie]

Well, I still thank RPD for giving us a little more insight into the autopsy results. Although they were as horrid as I'd imagined. Not good bedtime reading.

<snip>

Taximom,

I mean no disrespect to RPD, they felt the need to do what they did and perhaps it was kind to share with others, perhaps not. I recall for example with the Dyleski case, my SIL went to the courthouse and got a copy of that AR and sent it to us. Of course many following the case wanted to know what was in it. So I tried to provide to fellow posters by providing written sections word for word. To make a long story short, since I couldn't interpret or properly explain the information contained, things were misinterpreted. People had parts of PV's brain laying here and there. I took this as a major lesson - sometimes it is indeed best to either not do anything or to keep mouth shut no matter how hard it becomes. Case in point, reporting someone has been arrested when in fact you have no first hand knowledge of it and it never happens. I am sure one can say they are sorry and truly be sorry - but it makes no difference as the damage was done and cannot be undone.

I am all for people being able to present their views on a forum, however there comes a point when one's lack of training and expertise over rides the good side of opinion. What I see in a photo is what I see, may be true and may not be. What I tell you I see in a photograph may well be very different in your perception. I have no doubt these photos were very difficult to view, but I suspect for the untrained eye - they are equally as hard to interpret properly and significantly more difficult to understand by the third hand. Case in point was it an H or an I or the Cross of Lorraine carved into PV's back ? Or was it simply better to know the evil creep carved a symbol into her back ?

Much like the snowball rolling down hill... did a visual interpretation of these photos actually resolve anything for anyone or just send them off into wider speculation ?

JMO

 

[close_enough]

Very interesting to say the least. I think you are right on that they are actively investigating the case but give me your gut feeling about showing up at his house. Could be that they are ruling out any other possible perps or possible that they don't have squat on Jy. Got to be getting close to having forensic evidence back by now if not already. Would we know if the forensics were back, public info?

you know, i hate to admit this, but this has really got me to thinking Pack.....sure they're actively investigating, but IMO most if not all lab results should be back by now, i would ASSume.....i'm with you...they COULD still be ruling out other suspects OR they don't have squat on JY..... :banghead:

 

[close_enough]

I'll answer your last question on this post J2. This is why I'm wondering right now - MYs wounds were deep and gaping. It was a very viscious attack. With the Vitale case, I was one of those thinking it was Dan - just programmed here, I guess. I was shocked to find out it was Dyleski. That case now gives me pause for consideration.

I was well on my way to thinking it was JY - still do in a sense but I would not be surprised at this point to learn it was someone else.

Since Close is not here I'll answer the question you have for her. RPD a poster at CTV, went to the ME's office to look at the autopsy photos. Today, I guess, LE paid a visit to his home and according to RPD, it "freaked" his wife. I guess the MEs office would report anyone.

ETA Thank you RC and Panthera for answering my questions re Dyleski.

yes, the deep & gaping wounds to the back of the head (lacerations that didn't fracture the skull) make me think that a flashlight wasn't used....i keep flip flopping on the weapon...at first i didn't think it was a flashlight, then i did, & now i'm not so sure anymore.....

i still think JY did this, BUT i also think there's a possibility of us all being shocked in the end too....

 

[close_enough]

oops, almost forgot i was here, lol.....been at ctv for most of the day so far...whew! ...that JTF is a 'character' for sure, lol.....

put a roast in the crock pot & it's just beginning to smell up the place

cold here, but we didn't get even a flake of snow :banghead:

3 months since Michelle was murdered....ugh

 

[5bigfish5]

oops, almost forgot i was here, lol.....been at ctv for most of the day so far...whew! ...that JTF is a 'character' for sure, lol.....

put a roast in the crock pot & it's just beginning to smell up the place

cold here, but we didn't get even a flake of snow :banghead:

3 months since Michelle was murdered....ugh

I saw the JTF post. What an idiot! They should change their nic to "I wanna change the subject".

Jelly beans & The Lion King, Indeed.

 

[scandi]

Hi 5BigFish5,

I couldn't believe that! I just listened to the tape again and Meredith said 'There's blood everywhere'. Cassidy had enough blood on her to ask for a washcloth which tells me this is a big fat lie. She hadn't been sitting there with anyone else all morning. She had enough time to assess the situation in her mind, and knew what had happened.
She named her daddy as doing it, said her mom had 'boo boos' everywhere and that she was dead. How would she know all that if someone else was there. I wouldn't think they'd let her go and walk around her dead mother!
Ridiculous :banghead: :banghead:

I really resent this person coming there to plant false info about the case. We all take sleuthing very seriously, and it is like it is a game with us to see how far he can throw us off. I am 99% sure it is JY.

ETA: One of the rules at CTV is you can't put out new info without a link to back it up. I am surprised CW lets this person get away with all the falsities he puts out there.

 

[raisincharlie]

:laugh: :laugh:

I saw the JTF post. What an idiot! They should change their nic to "I wanna change the subject".

Jelly beans & The Lion King, Indeed.

Yes

 

[jilly]

I think the poster (Karisaikura?) over at CTV made a good point though about Cassidy, LK & JB - she could very well have been doing that on her own -because afterall she was by herself a long time there. She could have just given up thinking mommy was having a long sleep and went and amused herself.

With this JTF, I think every second word (so to speak) may have some truth. Why s/he would throw in Meredith sitting there with her though is beyond me. Unless, maybe, when LE arrived and they wanted to question Meredith they asked Cassidy to just sit & watch the movie for a bit and gave her some jellybeans.

Perhaps Cassidy told her dad afterwards what she had been doing and her perspective got a little muddled.

 

[scandi]

Oh, Oh, Oh Jilly! I just had a thought reading your post. It felt so good. LOLOLOL

I'd lay ya odds that JTF is JY himself, and I know why he said that. Because I think while he was in the act of bashing the side of his wife's head when little Cassidy came walking over to him {plagerizing another posters thoughts here ;} and he was snapped back to reality.

And before he left I think he laid out jelly beans and the movie for her to watch on the love seat or davenport so she would have something to do for the long wait ahead. He'd figure she might just fall asleep there and it would mean he had done good in making sure she was taken care of.

I think he might be going a bit over the edge right now for him to mention this, especially on a public forum where he knows LE is most likely reading the CTV forum now that the detectives knocked on RPD's door.

Wouldn't that mean he would have to go down the stairs to the kitchen to get the jelly beans? Maybe he left a footprint in the kitchen and it didn't even dawn on him until days later!

What a case!

 

[raisincharlie]

I think the poster (Karisaikura?) over at CTV made a good point though about Cassidy, LK & JB - she could very well have been doing that on her own -because afterall she was by herself a long time there. She could have just given up thinking mommy was having a long sleep and went and amused herself.

With this JTF, I think every second word (so to speak) may have some truth. Why s/he would throw in Meredith sitting there with her though is beyond me. Unless, maybe, when LE arrived and they wanted to question Meredith they asked Cassidy to just sit & watch the movie for a bit and gave her some jellybeans.

Perhaps Cassidy told her dad afterwards what she had been doing and her perspective got a little muddled.

Jilly

She, Cassidy, could have been doing it on her own. LE would have wanted to talk to Meredith ASAP - this may be the reason. Personally I find JTF to be a person in some serious denial as their posts are becoming increasingly irrational IMO. First they screamed about all the media attention, well now the media has released several warrants, a copy of the NTO issued against Jy (which IMO was very pointed and incriminating) people mag has done a national story and then there is the autopsy which clearly demonatrates the brutality of the crime. IMO JTF is in a state of denial which is getting rocked with each passing day.

The claim about all the missing jewelry is a good point - JTF assumes and further claims boldly that because LE is asking people about jewelry that MYs jewelry was stolen. JTF does not care to acknowledge that JY hasn't bothered to go into that house with LE and identify what may or may not be gone. You bet LE is going to ask about jewelry if they have no idea what may have been there in the first place - the reason is simple - alerting and watching the pawn shops. Every move LE makes is seen by JTF as pointing to this or that - but the assumptions show little knowledge about actual LE investigative processes. The spinning is definitely dizzying (is that a word?). JMO

ETA - if MYs jewelry is missing - it is sitting in the bottom of some gorge or river along with the murder weapon IMO.

 

[pack_fan]

Jilly

She, Cassidy, could have been doing it on her own. LE would have wanted to talk to Meredith ASAP - this may be the reason. Personally I find JTF to be a person in some serious denial as their posts are becoming increasingly irrational IMO. First they screamed about all the media attention, well now the media has released several warrants, a copy of the NTO issued against Jy (which IMO was very pointed and incriminating) people mag has done a national story and then there is the autopsy which clearly demonatrates the brutality of the crime. IMO JTF is in a state of denial which is getting rocked with each passing day.

The claim about all the missing jewelry is a good point - JTF assumes and further claims boldly that because LE is asking people about jewelry that MYs jewelry was stolen. JTF does not care to acknowledge that JY hasn't bothered to go into that house with LE and identify what may or may not be gone. You bet LE is going to ask about jewelry if they have no idea what may have been there in the first place - the reason is simple - alerting and watching the pawn shops. Every move LE makes is seen by JTF as pointing to this or that - but the assumptions show little knowledge about actual LE investigative processes. The spinning is definitely dizzying (is that a word?). JMO

ETA - if MYs jewelry is missing - it is sitting in the bottom of some gorge or river along with the murder weapon IMO.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

give me a couple minutes and check your pm.

 

[pack_fan]

Oh, Oh, Oh Jilly! I just had a thought reading your post. It felt so good. LOLOLOL

I'd lay ya odds that JTF is JY himself, and I know why he said that. Because I think while he was in the act of bashing the side of his wife's head when little Cassidy came walking over to him {plagerizing another posters thoughts here ;} and he was snapped back to reality.

And before he left I think he laid out jelly beans and the movie for her to watch on the love seat or davenport so she would have something to do for the long wait ahead. He'd figure she might just fall asleep there and it would mean he had done good in making sure she was taken care of.

I think he might be going a bit over the edge right now for him to mention this, especially on a public forum where he knows LE is most likely reading the CTV forum now that the detectives knocked on RPD's door.

Wouldn't that mean he would have to go down the stairs to the kitchen to get the jelly beans? Maybe he left a footprint in the kitchen and it didn't even dawn on him until days later!

What a case!

It is much easier for a close friend or family member to point the finger at someone else. All the things he says MF did, you could easily replace her name with JY and it would still make complete sense (other than staying at the house of course). But food left out or movies, whatever.

I don't know if any of this is true or not, doesn't sway my opinion either way. Realistically, I think she would be capable of doing all of this on her own. I don't think children that age understand death and probably thought that mommy was sleeping. She could have been distraught over not being able to "wake up mommy" but I doubt she understands what really happened.

And by the way, I don't think Jy would post on any of these boards for any reason. If he was smart, he would have learned his lesson when his laptop and home computer were taken, but jmo of course.