That's the magic key, in my opinion.......what was found under her nails (fingers crossed).
Autopsy
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That's the magic key, in my opinion.......what was found under her nails (fingers crossed).
momto3kids
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I will go get her book again and see what I can find that I might have missed. The photo showing petechiae under the tongue is impressive, but of course hard to describe not seeing the picture.
Fingers crossed for what? Do you really hope that he did it?
momto3kids
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I never thought of that. Less length to have to deal with. Is that what you are thinking?
No No No No No.............I wish nobody had done it !
I do hope the person that did it left their DNA (tissue/blood) under her fingernails though.
raisincharlie
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I have no definite thought actually. I do wonder why the childs clothing would have been taken and can only figure the item was observed by LE on Saturday and there was something about it that caught their attention. We have two things to think about with that - one, Brad says they were up at 4 am with Katie and two, supposedly Nancy slept with the girls according to some. The green dress , if it was what was worn to the party, I can see LE collecting that but the childs clothing has me curious.
Also one other thing, based on the autopsy the only clothing on Nancy was a sports bra/halter and it was pulled up. If one thinks about that, and Nancy was attacked from behind, were she in the act of either putting it on or taking it off - her hands may have been above her head at the time of the attack. It could have been used for strangulation as well. She could well have reached back and caught the back of her attacker's neck leaving only small marks due to her vulnerable position. Possible
momto3kids
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So far what I see.. this is a hb book, but not a text she will be using. It is more pictures and descriptions.
If the strangler has kept the pressure up for some time, the characteristic congestion and petechiae will be seen in the face of the victim. If, on the other hand death takes place within a few seconds, they do not appear.
jmflu
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I think it makes perfect sense.
Yeah, just I don't know, seems so unlikely with someone who was so physcically fit...almost like she was already out of breath from running and someone struck her with a force strong enough to break the hyoid? I just don't know....it is all so vague....
momto3kids
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One of the thoughts I had about the kids clothing was it had been stated per affidavits how much of a slob BC was living like. He most likely had 1 of the 2 bathrooms upstairs. NC and the girls used the other bathroom.
Any parent that needs to bath their child won't do it in the filth his was supposedly like. Maybe it was an item left in the bathroom after they were bathed?
This would answer just a bra on, not even totally removed or on NC. She was in the bathroom changing.
Also maybe the braided rung that was on the floor as a scattered rug?
Bathroom the scene. Also the cleaning products were found in there as well.
RC............two responses to your post.
I've come to believe there is some truth in BC's affidavit........I think the "encounter" started after Katie had woken up at 4 am ish. They possibly got her back to sleep but they didn't go back to sleep. I don't know if NC had really planned to run that morning but believe, if her and BC were arguing, she may have begun to dress to go for an unplanned run.
The thing with the sports bra/halter......and this is just my point of view as a woman (who hates bras).......a sports bra is not something I would wear under "street" clothing......especially a nice dress. It's not something I would sleep in either.......too constrictive. The only time I would wear something of that nature would be to run in......keep the bouncing to a minimum. So, possibly, there is some element of truth in him saying she was getting ready to go run.
I've come to believe there is some truth in BC's affidavit........I think the "encounter" started after Katie had woken up at 4 am ish. They possibly got her back to sleep but they didn't go back to sleep. I don't know if NC had really planned to run that morning but believe, if her and BC were arguing, she may have begun to dress to go for an unplanned run.
The thing with the sports bra/halter......and this is just my point of view as a woman (who hates bras).......a sports bra is not something I would wear under "street" clothing......especially a nice dress. It's not something I would sleep in either.......too constrictive. The only time I would wear something of that nature would be to run in......keep the bouncing to a minimum. So, possibly, there is some element of truth in him saying she was getting ready to go run.
Maybe the reason they were up so early is because one of the children had wet the bed and the article of clothing had urine on it? Took it for testing? Perhaps that was the source of the unidentifiable stain on the linens where NC slept, obseved by the LE.
One other thought.............Nancy was not a small petite woman......she was quite tall and very fit it sounds like.......I just can't imagine her going down without a major fight. Even if she was caught off guard I still think she would have put up a big time fight.
{bolding is mine}
RC,
You beat me to the punch, I was about to suggest this as a possibility. I have studied several different martial arts in the past, and it would be difficult to achieve a good choke hold on someone who had their hands above their head, although the best results would be from the front in this case.
Try as I might I cannot clearly see how [the perp] could use the sports bra to choke if she was actually putting it on. With her arms in the contraption, it would be difficult to get the leverage on it that would be needed, and the victim could reduce the pressure by moving her arms downward, thereby pulling the bra away from the throat. If [the perp] merely grabbed the bra for use as a weapon, it would be easier, since it would not be entangled with arms, etc. An attack from behind would be more difficult to defend against if the bra was already around the throat before she had a chance to react, and that could easily result in small scratches on the back of [the perps] neck. Also fairly easy to slip the bra on partially.
Caveat, I have never worn a sports bra, so I will defer to those who have and have indicated that they fight back against putting them on.
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raisincharlie
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Thanks for the explanation of the sports bra thing - I'm clueless. :crazy:
But I must admit that I thought it would be a bizare thing for her to have worn under a dress, actually I don't think we really know she wore a dress to the party. I also believe there is some truth to what BC told LE and I do think there was a reason for him to admit to LE they were up at 4 am that Saturday. I believe it was Clea Morwick who indicated that Nancy did tell her at the party that she planned to run Saturday morning so the sports bra does indeed make sense. Another item I think BC told the truth about was the time that Nancy had planned to run on Friday morning - 5:45 am - supposedly with Carey Clark - this was canceled according to Brad. Since we know for sure that Carey Clark spoke with LE - they know if this aspect was true or not. But the clothing and the planned running time and the 4 am wake up time I think is all possibly true.
rwe,
The Hyoid bone is normally difficult to break, unless someone manually strangles someone else. This is a fairly typical indication of cause of death, and as far as I have ever read or researched is not normally broken under any other condition.
I posted earlier about previous martial arts training. It is very easy to cause death to someone by asphyxation by striking them in the throat, but this is due to a fractured/ruptured larynx, and associated swelling, which was not indicated in the autopsy, and would not usually break the Hyoid bone.
The 1.3" mark could be indicative of a ligature mark, or could have been caused by a thin solid rod pressed against the throat, but I would lean more toward a ligature.
A "karate chop" to the throat could cause death, but it would likely look much different in the postmortem report.
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raisincharlie
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How big is iron man Brad - anyone know ?
Mahmoo - now you did it. If the friends are correct and Nancy did indeed keep her keys handy even when she slept, the only time really she would be without contact to those keys would be during times she was changing clothes - you think ?
SleuthyGal
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Nancy was 5'9" and based on pictures of the two of them together, I'm guessing Brad is about 6'3".
raisincharlie
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He looks pretty sizable - your guess is probably close enough. I just don't think we should lose sight of the fact he is rather large and once trained for the iron man thing. Pound for pound I just don't see Nancy being much of a contest against him in a fight if he is in an angry fit, even if she was a fit runner.
momto3kids
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Two things...
1- NC was wearing an athetic bra when she was found, BUT one was taken during the SW with a red shirt in the same evidence bag. It appears sports bras was what she might normally wear. The price of bra's it could be she wore one the night before if it was cut in the manner she needed to be hidden under her dress. Sometimes you have to wear one you don't want to, but because of it color or style you are forced to.
2- left dark discoloration of strap muscles. Also marked congestion of the supraclavicular tissues on left. Sounds like he got her from behind, and whatever he used to strangle her with he did with the his right hand for the marks to be on her left.
Was she trying to get out of her bra and he used that to strangle her?
1- NC was wearing an athetic bra when she was found, BUT one was taken during the SW with a red shirt in the same evidence bag. It appears sports bras was what she might normally wear. The price of bra's it could be she wore one the night before if it was cut in the manner she needed to be hidden under her dress. Sometimes you have to wear one you don't want to, but because of it color or style you are forced to.
2- left dark discoloration of strap muscles. Also marked congestion of the supraclavicular tissues on left. Sounds like he got her from behind, and whatever he used to strangle her with he did with the his right hand for the marks to be on her left.
Was she trying to get out of her bra and he used that to strangle her?
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