Autopsy

[hroark2112]

A few people have mentioned the phone call while he was at HT from the family residence. I'm not a technogeek by any means, and am having a hard time coming up with a way to make your home phone call your cell phone when you're not in the house. Wouldn't he need the cell phone records to show a received call from his house for his story (the NC called when he was at HT) to be viable? If there was a call from the house to the cell, wouldn't that mean that either NC was alive & calling him, or that one of the girls called daddy?

 

[jumpstreet]

A few people have mentioned the phone call while he was at HT from the family residence. I'm not a technogeek by any means, and am having a hard time coming up with a way to make your home phone call your cell phone when you're not in the house. Wouldn't he need the cell phone records to show a received call from his house for his story (the NC called when he was at HT) to be viable? If there was a call from the house to the cell, wouldn't that mean that either NC was alive & calling him, or that one of the girls called daddy?

A speculated explanation on this is that something along the lines of (a), he left is mobile phone (set to auto-answer) at HT somewhere (in a bush), then went back home and called it... or (b) he set something up at home (PC or fax machine) to originate a call to his mobile over the landline at a certain time, and he answered it while at HT (or nearby).

It's either something along those lines... OR... he's telling the truth. Unfortunately, even the phone records won't be conclusive as to which...

 

[hroark2112]

The problem with the "leaving the phone at HT" theory is that your cell phone records normally don't show missed calls (unanswered calls) because you're not charged minutes for those. You've got to physically answer the phone for the call to show on the records.

The fax machine calling at a pre-set time is more plausible, I just wouldn't have the patience to listen to that stupid beeping sound from the fax machine for very long!!

 

[ncnative]

Red fluid and what appears to be onion in the stomach of someone who is decomposing on the ground in the hot July sun with insects and predatory birds, etc... A decomposing digestive system seems like it would be difficult to autopsy. How much of that stomach content is from decomposition? How does a stomach in a deceased, decomposing body "behave" on the contents? Would its contents continue to be asborbed, such as the food and drink NC had prior to her death? I don't know. Sure, I could Google. I don't feel like reading lots of technical unpleasantries. Does anyone know?

 

[jumpstreet]

The problem with the "leaving the phone at HT" theory is that your cell phone records normally don't show missed calls (unanswered calls) because you're not charged minutes for those. You've got to physically answer the phone for the call to show on the records.

The fax machine calling at a pre-set time is more plausible, I just wouldn't have the patience to listen to that stupid beeping sound from the fax machine for very long!!

Note I mentioned "left phone set to auto-answer". That gets it in the phone records (it wasn't a missed call). Some phones allow you to have it auto answer as soon as it rings (or shortly thereafter).

 

[maconrich]

BC didn't stage anything IMO - he simply disposed of her as she was murdered - he didn't try to dress her, didn't try to make it look like and attack - nothing - he just dumped her and ran. He went to the store so he could prove where he was in case anyone saw his car that morning. He went the second time to have a phone record of supposedly Nancy calling him at the store for juice. He bought detergent because he had things to clean. He's big on paper records.

I absolutely agree. And the first part combined with the autopsy report...well it might be best if I paraphrase Mr. R and say he's a coward. There are so many words that I'd rather use but can't put on a family friendly site.

A surprise attack while N was dressing or undressing with her hands essentially 'tied' due to putting on the top makes sense and could account for BC not having his eyes ripped out in self defense.

I could see the bathroom (mentioned in another post) as the potential crime scene, but I so hope it was bedroom instead (due to the pillow and sheet that were removed). And since this person couldn't even manage to put a t-shirt on her before dumping her, (and given the amount of time it would have taken to kill her), I tend to doubt that it was a face to face attack. But I'll brace myself just in case...

I've intentionally tried to distance myself from this case for awhile because it's hit me so hard from day one. So, I've been reading more in the Caylee thread(s). I thought that might help prepare me for things here (like the autopsy report), but despite the general lack of civility and the fact a beautiful little child was (most likely) murdered, it hasn't hardened /helped me at all. Knowing that he threw her out there, face down and wearing nothing but that top makes me physically ill (and forget about even trying to sleep because the mental images are much to strong for that).

So IMO the state can take it's time and not file charges until they have him trapped like a rat in a very, very small cage. Because this is one rat I want to see nailed. Big time.

 

[Singlovelaugh]

http://wake.mync.com/site/wake/news%7CCommunity%7CSports%7CLifestyles/story/10021/autopsy-report-shows-cary-woman-strangled

An autopsy report released by medical examiners in Chapel Hill states that Nancy Cooper was strangled to death.

Police had already said the 34-year old mother of two had been murdered, but until now, they had never given a cause of death.

Is this posted somewhere else? I looked but could not find it. Released yesterday so I thought it would be here somewhere...please remove this if it doesn't belong here. Thanks!

 

[SleuthyGal]

Hi SingLove,

There are several 'sticky' threads at the top where such things are placed. One is the media thread, and the other place is a legal documents thread. This would probably fit best in the media thread.

 

[rwesafe]

There were a few things I found odd about the autopsy report. It could be a result of the decomposition of the body, but it seemed to contain very little detail. I lost a family member in February of this year to an accidental overdose. I was just looking at the autopsy report and it has every mole, insect bite and location of the electrode burns marked on the body shot. Another thing I found interesting is that the gastro section indicates that the intestines were intact. No mention of inflammation consistent with Crohns disease was observed, but again, this could be do to decompisition? My father had a severe case of Crohns disease. I know that it causes fistulas or open sores to form somewhere on or near the anus in men and women, but primarily in the vaginal are for women. I wondered if Nancy had such a wound, when I read that the LE noted an unidentifiable stain on the bed linens.

It is difficult to believe that she was attacked and stangled by BC when there are no other instances of trauma related injuries noted. She was a very tall physically fit woman who I imagine would have fought her attacker tooth and nail which would have caused defense marks or wounds. A 1.3" faint mark on the neck at the location of the hyoid bone.....I don't know how that could even be the extent of the markings if it was a strangulation. But, I know little about forensics so that is not saying much!

It does not seem unreasonable that an attacker would take her shoes or shorts. Perhaps she had an opportunity to kick the crap out of her attacker and he/she knew that genetic evidence would be on them...perhaps the perv ejaculated on the shorts and again, not wanting to leave DNA behind took them with. As for the missing earring....you don't have to watch to many episodes of Law and Order SVU to note that a lot of rapist/killers take an item from their victim(s) as a trophy item.

I know, I'm still not convinced BC did it. I will take my text based verbal spanking now..........

 

[raisincharlie]

There were a few things I found odd about the autopsy report. It could be a result of the decomposition of the body, but it seemed to contain very little detail. I lost a family member in February of this year to an accidental overdose. I was just looking at the autopsy report and it has every mole, insect bite and location of the electrode burns marked on the body shot. Another thing I found interesting is that the gastro section indicates that the intestines were intact. No mention of inflammation consistent with Crohns disease was observed, but again, this could be do to decompisition? My father had a severe case of Crohns disease. I know that it causes fistulas or open sores to form somewhere on or near the anus in men and women, but primarily in the vaginal are for women. I wondered if Nancy had such a wound, when I read that the LE noted an unidentifiable stain on the bed linens.

It is difficult to believe that she was attacked and stangled by BC when there are no other instances of trauma related injuries noted. She was a very tall physically fit woman who I imagine would have fought her attacker tooth and nail which would have caused defense marks or wounds. A 1.3" faint mark on the neck at the location of the hyoid bone.....I don't know how that could even be the extent of the markings if it was a strangulation. But, I know little about forensics so that is not saying much!

It does not seem unreasonable that an attacker would take her shoes or shorts. Perhaps she had an opportunity to kick the crap out of her attacker and he/she knew that genetic evidence would be on them...perhaps the perv ejaculated on the shorts and again, not wanting to leave DNA behind took them with. As for the missing earring....you don't have to watch to many episodes of Law and Order SVU to note that a lot of rapist/killers take an item from their victim(s) as a trophy item.

I know, I'm still not convinced BC did it. I will take my text based verbal spanking now..........

No spanking deserved

Just a comment - this lack of detail with autopsies coming from Chapel Hill is consistent with every other autopsy report I have seen them publish. It seems to me that because of the FOA requirements, the report is kept necessarily short for publication and reveals as little as possible for public consumption. The real details of the autopsy are contained in the ME's notes, which are not subject to public dissemination.

One other comment, the autopsy report does reference that Nancy's toe nails were painted pink. If you review the inventory from the search warrant of the house you will note item #11 to be a pink colored object, thought to be a nail. Just something I noted that caught my attention.

 

[SleuthyGal]

The amount of decomp + bug infestation and animal activity may have obscured some of these details.

 

[rwesafe]

No spanking deserved

Just a comment - this lack of detail with autopsies coming from Chapel Hill is consistent with every other autopsy report I have seen them publish. It seems to me that because of the FOA requirements, the report is kept necessarily short for publication and reveals as little as possible for public consumption. The real details of the autopsy are contained in the ME's notes, which are not subject to public dissemination.

One other comment, the autopsy report does reference that Nancy's toe nails were painted pink. If you review the inventory from the search warrant of the house you will note item #11 to be a pink colored object, thought to be a nail. Just something I noted that caught my attention.

Yes, I understand that this one may have been left intentionally short. My brother had the same ME and I just thought the difference in details of his report was odd.

I did note the toenail thing, but competitive runners often have the most fragile toenails or at least my husband does. He can stump his toe on the carpet and that dang toenail splits and falls off.....I don't know how he stands it....clearly, I'm not a runner

My brother had had Mexican food approximately 4 hours prior to his death and a margarita...there was not food content in his stomach at the time of his autopsy, but there was greenish liquid. Strange that liquid stays longer than food....

Maybe the red liquid was a redbull or one of those high energy drinks. My hubby drinks a redbull before he runs or does his workouts. Possible?

 

[raisincharlie]

Yes, I understand that this one may have been left intentionally short. My brother had the same ME and I just thought the difference in details of his report was odd.

I did note the toenail thing, but competitive runners often have the most fragile toenails or at least my husband does. He can stump his toe on the carpet and that dang toenail splits and falls off.....I don't know how he stands it....clearly, I'm not a runner

My brother had had Mexican food approximately 4 hours prior to his death and a margarita...there was not food content in his stomach at the time of his autopsy, but there was greenish liquid. Strange that liquid stays longer than food....

Maybe the red liquid was a redbull or one of those high energy drinks. My hubby drinks a redbull before he runs or does his workouts. Possible?

I'm thinking Chapel Hill has a variable protocol - one type of report for deaths due to non-criminal causes, and one for deaths due to criminal activity. I first noticed this "lack of detail" with the Michelle Young autopsy -although the wounds were definitely defined. Then again her body was found in a controled environment and within hours of her murder. Dunno but lots of them seem to be short on substance.

I'm not sure what to think about the red liquid actually. I think it is possible it could be any number of things to be honest and I certainly think it could have been an energy drink of some sort as easily as anything else. I just don't have enough brainpower to figure out what that is saying and not enough ancillary facts to even guess. Seems to me the only substance in the report is the actual cause of death, but even that is a soft decree - "asphyxia most likely due to strangulation" doesn't exactly leave me 100% convinced.

 

[jmflu]

Seems to me the only substance in the report is the actual cause of death, but even that is a soft decree - "asphyxia most likely due to strangulation" doesn't exactly leave me 100% convinced.

But they were SURE it was homicide. If it is "likely due to strangulation," it is possible it is not due to strangulation. So, therefore, do we then have cause to wonder if it was even a murder?

I doubt any of us wants to go THERE.

 

[raisincharlie]

But they were SURE it was homicide. If it is "likely due to strangulation," it is possible it is not due to strangulation. So, therefore, do we then have cause to wonder if it was even a murder?

I doubt any of us wants to go THERE.

I have no doubt the manner of death was homicide. No need to go there for me. The condition of the hyoid bone strongly suggests strangulation but the words "most likely" are not 100% in my mind.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Asphyxia seems to be certain, and homicide is absolutely 100% certain, but the part they are assuming is strangulation. A pillow over the face would also cause asphyxia, but there is that fractured hyoid bone to consider.

Therefore:

Manner of Death: HOMICIDE

Cause of Death: ASPHYXIATION

Means (or mechanism) of Death: likely from strangulation

 

[jmflu]

Asphyxia seems to be certain, and homicide is absolutely 100% certain, but the part they are assuming is strangulation. A pillow over the face would also cause asphyxia, but there is that fractured hyoid bone to consider.

I guess I'm still confused. If they KNOW she was murdered, how can they be sure if they are not certain of the HOW part? Is asphyxia the same thing as strangulation?

 

[raisincharlie]

I guess I'm still confused. If they KNOW she was murdered, how can they be sure if they are not certain of the HOW part? Is asphyxia the same thing as strangulation?

Asphyxia is the cause of death. Asphyxia is the production of an oxygen deficient condition within the body. The mechanisms of asphyxia can be caused by choking (on food for instance), strangulation, suffocation, sticking a plastic bag over your head for a while and so on.

The hyoid bone being fractured suggests some type of manual force strangulation may have occurred.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I guess I'm still confused. If they KNOW she was murdered, how can they be sure if they are not certain of the HOW part? Is asphyxia the same thing as strangulation?

No they are not the same thing.

Asphyxia is a condition of severely deficient supply of oxygen to the body that arises from being unable to breathe normally. An example of asphyxia is choking (choking would be an accident). When someone is found hanging they have died from asphyxia.

Strangulation implies pressure to the neck to achieve asphyxia which can be done via 'manual' (like with one's hands), 'ligature' and 'choke hold.'

 

[jmflu]

Thank you both. So if she died of asphyxia, that means she was murdered?