AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[katydid23]

But she's the only daughter. My sister in law had her own bathroom and walk in closet and the two older boys shared a smaller room. Seems normal to me. JMO

Well then I got ripped off. My two brothers shared a room but they had the bathroom in theirs, and I had to use the guest bathroom down the hall.

 

[Patty G]

If there is a full window in there, I will agree with you that is a 4th bdrm but they use it as a den. Usually those small high windows are bathrooms.

I definitely see a door in the den leading to the porch and outside. You can walk from the den to the mbrm through the porch area.

I agree about the small high windows being bathrooms, but not sure that is the case with this house.

On Isa's side of the house there are the two small high windows on the side of the house, then Isa's bedroom window, then a small wider window (bathroom) then two small windows towards the front still on side.

I do see that doorway that everyone is calling a Den. I think what confused me is the area the door opened into. I thought that the door opened into a possible family room. However, it appears you are saying that door opens to the backyard?

 

[marazul]

There's no doubt all of us here would too, Ada. But if I had just arrived home after my DH called to say one of my children was missing and I was handed a phone with LE asking me if I had looked for her ~ You can better believe I'm gonna tell them I've looked everywhere and now they better get here PDQ and do some serious searching.

Becky sounded authentically frightened to me. I believe she would have told them she'd even already looked on the roof if she thought it would get them there quicker.

agree! I feel as though she took the question as " are you sure she is not hiding in the house?" and her response was a denial of that possibility, and an affirmation that her daughter is definitely missing and she needs 911, she does not need to look again and call back.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think mothers are more likely to kill by means of water but as far as disposing, I'll call it even. Whatever is the most convenient is usually the case.

Usually the water site is a mom thing.

Men (fathers) tend to take the child's body many many miles from home to dispose of their body and fathers are more likely to bury their victim than mothers.

Mothers tend to dispose of body close to home and will put them in plastic bag or blanket and put them above ground or in water. AKA shades of Casey Anthony.

I learned all this during her case.

IMO

 

[Prof]

I went searching on the internet for this info. today, but I couldn't find any info other than family members will hide the body better than random killers/serial killers or they completely destroy the body. Does anyone else have info on this? TIA

http://findthekids.org/pdf/casemanag.pdf

Okay this is what I have initially found. This report is 15 years old. I will keep looking,... these are short exerpts I have taken from a long report that have to do with child abductions that end up in murder. This is still too broad to answer the question about the difference between a stranger abduction/murder and a parent murder disguised as an accident, but it is a start.

The word “abduction” means different things to different people. For purposes of this research, it means
1) The victim was kidnapped.
2) The victim was detained and his/her freedom of movement was restricted.
3) A victim of domestic violence was reported by the family (or someone else) as a missing child.
4) The police were initially of the opinion that the victim was taken or held against her will, whether or not that turned out to be the case in the end.
The major criterion for case

The victims of child abduction murders are very different that other murder victims, who are typically young adult males killed by someone they know. Child abduction murder victims are much more likely to be female children killed by strangers.

1. After the victim has been killed, 52 percent of the bodies are concealed to prevent discovery (than murderers in general (14%).)
2. In only 9% of cases is the body openly placed to insure its discovery.
3. A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. The initial contact site is within ¼ mile of the victim’s last known location in 80% of cases.
4. Conversely, the distance between the initial contact site and the murder site increases to distances greater than 1/4 mile (54%).
5. The distance from the murder site to the body recovery site again decreases, to less than 200 feet in 72 percent of cases.

 

[Jules71]

Re: where in the home Sergio was at when he refers to his watching the late night game and falling asleep..

Should be easy to spot on the floor plan of the home.. He states that the room within where he watched the game and fell asleep on the couch.. This room actually shares a wall with Isa's bedroom.. So we should be able to easily distinguish exactly what/where the room is in the Celis home.

Jmo


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

He says "I even was in the living room watching uh, the Diamondbacks game at midnight. And I fell asleep and I never heard anything weird. So I was like just on the other side of the wall from her." The living room is in the front of the house and shares a wall with the front bedroom and part of the 2nd bedroom. I do believe the room in the far back on that side is a den with no closet. The front room appears to have a regular closet and the middle room appears to me to have maybe a walk in closet.

 

[Prof]

Time stamped after conversation dont know if this is what your looking for
http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf

That is not the 911 call time stamps. Those are the date and time of the transcribing from the audio tape.. in May

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He does have a long rap sheet!
Ward Cleaver hes not!

As far as I am aware he has nothing in his criminal history that involves violence.

Isnt it mostly the one case about drugs when he was 22 years old then traffic offenses?

I have read a lot worse criminal records on this site than what Sergio has by far.

 

[Patty G]

So we do the two boys sleep? I would have thought that each child had their own room. This is a fairly large house. Maybe the Den is used as a bedroom for one of the boys.

 

[cakegirl0905]

So I am way late to the party y'all, sorry! But regarding the 911 call:
I at first thought everyone was picking on the father and being unfair. And then this afternoon I HEARD the call for he irst time. And wow, that man was not in the right frame of mind at all. Also, the things he was saying sounded like he was immediately giving himself an alibi and trying to be, I don't know, proving his case already that he couldn't have done it.
My husband is one of those people that doesn't always have the "right" reactions to things. But I think if he woke up and found out daughter missing, his breathing would be fast, his voice would be shaky, he wouldn't be laughing and talking about sports games on tv and saying he told me to get my butt home. The tape is a HUGE red flag to me. Huge! I don't know what happened to this little girl, but I'm betting he does.

 

[Madame_X]

Mothers tend to dispose of body close to home and will put them in plastic bag or blanket and put them above ground or in water. AKA shades of Casey Anthony.

And yet, they found her not guilty. Still makes me queasy when I think about it.

 

[gliving]

So we do the two boys sleep? I would have thought that each child had their own room. This is a fairly large house. Maybe the Den is used as a bedroom for one of the boys.

I wondered if the boys ever slept out on the covered patio. Does Tucson have mosquitoes?

 

[Prof]

As far as I am aware he has nothing in his criminal history that involves violence.

Isnt it mostly the one case about drugs when he was 22 years old then traffic offenses?

I have read a lot worse criminal records on this site than what Sergio has by far.

I know, right? In comparison, he looks squeaky clean.
OT but I am so happy TPS in AZ was found guilty of forgery. The Gabriel case gave me a lot of experience in AZ court records.

 

[taagean]

Do we know for sure that Isabel was in her room that night? Was the info from Sergio?
I can't remember.

ETA: I seem to remember something about a reporter asking if her bed was slept in but LE wouldn't answer.

 

[Micheline]

He says "I even was in the living room watching uh, the Diamondbacks game at midnight. And I fell asleep and I never heard anything weird. So I was like just on the other side of the wall from her." The living room is in the front of the house and shares a wall with the front bedroom and part of the 2nd bedroom. I do believe the room in the far back on that side is a den with no closet. The front room appears to have a regular closet and the middle room appears to me to have maybe a walk in closet.

-bolded by me-

So if SC fell asleep there, with the tv on (and some lights on probably) would that not be an indication to anyone who wanted to kidnap Isabel that night that someone in the house was awake?

 

[pieper4]

I wondered if the boys ever slept out on the covered patio. Does Tucson have mosquitoes?

Yes. But nothing like much of the rest of the US. But we also have bats, tarantulas, camel spiders,scorpions, snakes... so not a lot of kids sleep outdoors that I know about. Even though a yard is walled, these critters still can and do get in. I want to get a trampoline to sleep on here. Figure not much will climb up 4+ foot legs.

 

[Jules71]

Right now I really think Mom and Dad are both in on it. I think Mom got Isa up and they went into the garage, got in Mom's car and drove off. Then they met up with someone else who took Isa and Mom continued on to work - getting there "very early" for her shift. If you just *read* the 911 transcripts - neither parents words seem right to me. I think after they left the house, Dad staged the window thing and woke up the boys and told them the story of going in to wake up Isa and he told them to go look around - and made sure one of them found the screen off. I think he then sent the 14 yo to look around the neighborhood and the 10 yo to wait in the garage for Mom so he could call 911 and not have them listening in on his call.

There is also a RUMOR I read on another site that says the owner of the party store said parents and kids from Isa's school have been in to the store and have said Isa was not at school on Friday. Not sure if that means anything but could.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tu.../comments?type=story&id=16210060#.T7cFiVJja1g

Comment is by ECollins2010

 

[cluciano63]

For me, it is easier in a way to believe the parents are involved, as that is really the only way, IMO, that Isabel could be alive. I do not believe a random pervert would maintain and keep a 6-year old girl alive for more than a few hours, much less a month.

Maybe LE's seeming belief that Isabel could be alive stems from their investigation that seems to show that this was an "inside job." From my viewpoint, they are focusing on the family and they would know that the chances of her being alive if someone had come in the night to steal her would be very slight indeed.

JMO

 

[elmomom]

I would wonder only because LE used the words "custody dispute" almost at once, which seemed very strange for what seemed to be an "intact" family.

On another note, obviously many people who commit horrible crimes do not "present" as being capable of such things. Even Scott Peterson looked and behaved pretty normally up until he decided to commit a double murder, and he is just one example. So while I am not convinced that Sergio is guilty, I sure wouldn't say he couldn't be because he doesn't seem to fit a profile. For the murders or crimes against persons within the family there seems to be less of a "profile" or "type". We've seen respected doctors murder their wives, suburban wives arranging to have their husbands killed, etc...

JMO

Thanks - reading this is helping me sort out how to verbalize my thoughts. He doesn't fit the profile. No previous criminal history for violence. No domestic abuse that led to charges. No obvious drug problem. No obvious financial problem. I agree completely that he IS the most likely suspect in this case, based on statistics as well as he had the best opportunity. But if he is guilty he will be regarded like a Scott Peterson - an unlikely but obviously guilty party who doesn't fit the profile. I think SOME people are trying too hard to make him fit a "bad guy" profile, but he doesn't have to fit it to still be the bad guy in this case. sometimes, seemingly good guys do very bad things.

I just wish there was some actual bona fide evidence and not just a whole mountain of innuendo coming out of LE.

 

[liz b.]

Do we know for sure that Isabel was in her room that night? Was the info from Sergio?
I can't remember.

At the beginning it was reported that she was "tucked into bed by her family " but then it changed when Sergio said that he last saw her as she walked past him,when he offered her food.. The answer to your excellent question is : who knows where she was that night ? IIRC, Sergio never followed up with where she went after she walked past him... MOO

I wonder why it changed, that first it was reported that her family tucked her in, but later it became something very different... MOO