AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[Stash777]

Was it ever specifically stated that ONLY SC, RC, Isa and 2 boys were the only ones in the house that night? I remember hearing 'family' but not specific family members.

I'm still trying to catch up, but this had me thinking...

MOO and speculation - Posters had been asking about how JM was at the scene so early and speculating that he had, perhaps, been staying there that night. We haven't seen any more of JM since the first day(s?). Also, it was speculated that JM had been staying/living with the family back in Dec (time of CPS contact). JM, IIRC, has prior drug charges. If JM was in fact staying/living there in Dec, this may have contributed to the CPS visit. AFAIR, the Celis' inferred that they were the only ones there that night, but LE has not specifically named the persons there that night. LE stated that during the investigation, information came up that led to conferring with CPS. What if one of the boys "slipped" and said that JM was there that night, and SC had been coaxing them not to mention that detail? MOO

I'm not sure if this is even the case or way off base, but want to hear what others have to say about this and if they can find any MSM references that poke holes in this. I am on my phone right now, so it's hard to search for the articles and previous posts... again just MOO and speculation

 

[elmomom]

No, in his case he's lazy and greedy, sad to say. He sells. That has always been his aspiration -- livin' the gangsta life hustling herb. Oh, and buying a pimped out Escalade.

Lol sounds like weed is not really the problem, and that stupidity is. No offense meant...

About the cartel and the Hispanic thing... I am holding my breath for more about the F&F thing to see if that pans out. I can see the possibility in it, and remain hopeful it could lead to a live Isa being recovered, so that is especially attractive.
But I do think that the general use of the word "cartel" got a little out of hand in the rumor mill - I am not talking about on here at WS but out in the public mostly. And I do think that people have a tendency to too eagerly run with that concept when it involves a person with Mexican heritage living in the Southwest.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Oceaneyes? I also think a lot of last nights talk earlier today was because people were not here. The night crew seem to have an understanding of fellow osters - not once did banging head against the wall offend me because this is a frustrating case. Also we have to be mindful that there are alot of new sleuthers that have joined for this case alone. I lurked for 3 years before I joined lol So there are some that don't know the rules, have yet to find who they do and don't trust etc

People being scared to post because of an little picture is silly - we are all here to try and figure stuff out

 

[azmary]

Seriously? I think most people know about Arizona's problem with kidnappings due to cartel issues. This is why MY suspicions of a cartel related incident sparked up right away.

The cartel was mentioned in this video from phx and retired police detective.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/okelle...weighs-in-on-Isabel-Celis-case-149250945.html

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Thank you! After reading all the posts giving Sergio and Becky every shred of doubt, a post that I agree with.

Tucson police said this week that the case was considered an abduction. Some family members, along with most of the sex offenders in the area near the Celis home in the 5600 block of East 12th Street, have been eliminated as suspects, police said. Others, including Isabel's parents, have not been ruled out.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/sergio-celis-sister-urges-compassion-for-isa-s-family/article_df9cc706-5f2d-5cd5-9a3c-2f4f045407ad.html

TPD has ruled out some family, most of the RSO's but not Sergio and Becky. LE tries to rule out the family ASAP, so they can concentrate on ever widening circles away from the family. The fact that TPD has been unable to do so in this case speaks volumes. I am not on the fence on this, never have been, I believe that Sergio is guilty of a crime against his daughter. I believe that Becky is helping to cover said crime. No fence sitting for me.

Sad for me to say it, but as it stands right now I have to agree.

 

[mamamia54]

I'm still trying to catch up, but this had me thinking...

MOO and speculation - Posters had been asking about how JM was at the scene so early and speculating that he had, perhaps, been staying there that night. We haven't seen any more of JM since the first day(s?). Also, it was speculated that JM had been staying/living with the family back in Dec (time of CPS contact). JM, IIRC, has prior drug charges. If JM was in fact staying/living there in Dec, this may have contributed to the CPS visit. AFAIR, the Celis' inferred that they were the only ones there that night, but LE has not specifically named the persons there that night. LE stated that during the investigation, information came up that led to conferring with CPS. What if one of the boys "slipped" and said that JM was there that night, and SC had been coaxing them not to mention that detail? MOO

I'm not sure if this is even the case or way off base, but want to hear what others have to say about this and if they can find any MSM references that poke holes in this. I am on my phone right now, so it's hard to search for the articles and previous posts... again just MOO and speculation

This is about the ............. um, glad that you posted my thoughts. Something is amiss and there is much much more to this than we are aware of. And I will do some looking.

 

[elmomom]

I'm still trying to catch up, but this had me thinking...

MOO and speculation - Posters had been asking about how JM was at the scene so early and speculating that he had, perhaps, been staying there that night. We haven't seen any more of JM since the first day(s?). Also, it was speculated that JM had been staying/living with the family back in Dec (time of CPS contact). JM, IIRC, has prior drug charges. If JM was in fact staying/living there in Dec, this may have contributed to the CPS visit. AFAIR, the Celis' inferred that they were the only ones there that night, but LE has not specifically named the persons there that night. LE stated that during the investigation, information came up that led to conferring with CPS. What if one of the boys "slipped" and said that JM was there that night, and SC had been coaxing them not to mention that detail? MOO

I'm not sure if this is even the case or way off base, but want to hear what others have to say about this and if they can find any MSM references that poke holes in this. I am on my phone right now, so it's hard to search for the articles and previous posts... again just MOO and speculation

I don't think anything you have said sounds illogical or nonsensical. But the idea that JM was living with the family in Dec has been a persistent yet unsubstantiated WS rumor. I don't remember if it had been totally laid to rest and disputed, but it may have been. there has been no credible evidence that JM lived with the family, in Dec, or at any other time as far as I have seen. So we just don't know, and he may really be just a blip and have no significance to this case other than he was interviewed by the press the day Isa went missing.

 

[Lark2]

snipped
I am so flipping sick of every question that anyone has about this family being attacked!

I am out of here. Just disgusted.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, Frayed, and have felt this way from the beginning of this case.

It's not as if we are pulling this stuff out of thin air. The reason we suspect family involvement is because that is where signs are pointing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Seriously? I think most people know about Arizona's problem with kidnappings due to cartel issues. This is why MY suspicions of a cartel related incident sparked up right away.

Is it happening in Tuscon too. I thought that was mostly happening in Phoenix but honestly I dont know about drug cartels. I live on the other side of the US and that is never in our news.

 

[Lark2]

I'm still trying to catch up, but this had me thinking...

MOO and speculation - Posters had been asking about how JM was at the scene so early and speculating that he had, perhaps, been staying there that night. We haven't seen any more of JM since the first day(s?). Also, it was speculated that JM had been staying/living with the family back in Dec (time of CPS contact). JM, IIRC, has prior drug charges. If JM was in fact staying/living there in Dec, this may have contributed to the CPS visit. AFAIR, the Celis' inferred that they were the only ones there that night, but LE has not specifically named the persons there that night. LE stated that during the investigation, information came up that led to conferring with CPS. What if one of the boys "slipped" and said that JM was there that night, and SC had been coaxing them not to mention that detail? MOO

I'm not sure if this is even the case or way off base, but want to hear what others have to say about this and if they can find any MSM references that poke holes in this. I am on my phone right now, so it's hard to search for the articles and previous posts... again just MOO and speculation

JVM and NG have both stated that JM used to live with the family, but I don't know the time frame, and the links are back-thread.

Also, a poster on the HufPo site said the CPS charge in Dec. was about JM's drug use because he was living there at the time. Link back-thread.

His voice could have been one of the two male voices heard at 6:30 a.m.. Just my opinion and throwing it out there.

 

[mamamia54]

JVM and NG have both stated that JM used to live with the family, but I don't know the time frame, and the links are back-thread.

Also, a poster on the HufPo site said the CPS charge in Dec. was about JM's drug use because he was living there at the time. Link back-thread.

His voice could have been one of the two male voices heard at 6:30 a.m.. Just my opinion and throwing it out there.

Seriouly........again............flop

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oceaneyes? I also think a lot of last nights talk earlier today was because people were not here. The night crew seem to have an understanding of fellow osters - not once did banging head against the wall offend me because this is a frustrating case. Also we have to be mindful that there are alot of new sleuthers that have joined for this case alone. I lurked for 3 years before I joined lol So there are some that don't know the rules, have yet to find who they do and don't trust etc

People being scared to post because of an little picture is silly - we are all here to try and figure stuff out

And I am so glad that you finally decided to join us.

Oh........I am way out of the loop. I didnt even come back on to late this afternoon. I didnt even know there was an uproar about the banghead icon. I have never thought it was offensive and I see a lot of posters that include it at times ..even I do. Were they mad with me and I missed it?:what: I sure dont use it to be snarky.

If it is offensive I dont think WS would have it on here.

But if it bothers posters I can always use another icon.

 

[Prof]

I'm still trying to catch up, but this had me thinking...

MOO and speculation - Posters had been asking about how JM was at the scene so early and speculating that he had, perhaps, been staying there that night. We haven't seen any more of JM since the first day(s?). Also, it was speculated that JM had been staying/living with the family back in Dec (time of CPS contact). JM, IIRC, has prior drug charges. If JM was in fact staying/living there in Dec, this may have contributed to the CPS visit. AFAIR, the Celis' inferred that they were the only ones there that night, but LE has not specifically named the persons there that night. LE stated that during the investigation, information came up that led to conferring with CPS. What if one of the boys "slipped" and said that JM was there that night, and SC had been coaxing them not to mention that detail? MOO

I'm not sure if this is even the case or way off base, but want to hear what others have to say about this and if they can find any MSM references that poke holes in this. I am on my phone right now, so it's hard to search for the articles and previous posts... again just MOO and speculation

Stash, by all means I want to hear theories.

Allow me to try to clear a few things up?

Feel free to disregard, but I still need to post these. I know that I have posted these ideas before.

There was an assumption that JM was on the scene early. IMO It was an assumption based on the neighbor's statement that an uncle knocked on her door at 8 am asking if she'd seen Isa. She told NG that the police who knocked a bit later to question her told her that the man who knocked before was an uncle of Isa's That was put together with the fact that JM was interviewed that Saturday, saying he came to help as soon as he heard, but that interview was in the afternoon, and at that point no other family had been interviewed, led to the assumption that the "uncle" was the same as JM. ISA has uncles, plural who are real uncles and are close.

However, that same neighbor on NG did not identify by description, or by acknowleding that the man who knocked on her door was JM the guy who was on the news. IMO it is not a good assumption. JM was interviewed twice by local reporters that day, and both the reporters identified the time. One time was obvioulsy afternoon and the other was obviously dusk.


The idea that he might have lived at the Celis home came from NG, as well. A source close to the case or something like that. I don't believe NG stated when that was at all.

I have not seen any source that said December. Where did we see that?

JM has the same kind of charges SC has....DUI ...it runs in the family it seems.

As far as I remember, LE did state that only immediate family were there that night.


JMO

 

[gliving]

I'm not surprised Becky and Sergio haven't been ruled out. How could they provide an alibi? :waitasec: I'm trying to think of a missing child case when the parent were home and they were ruled out. Anyone?


Also, to beat that poor dead horse:

Hawke said it would be inappropriate for police to discuss the state CPS case. She referred media to the state agency.

Police have gone before to the residence where the Celis family lives. Hawke said she did not know the nature of the calls. "They're very minimal. When I do a check of the residence, there virtually is no contact there prior to most recently," Hawke said.

She said she could not provide the specific dates when police responded to the Celis home.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_910228ae-c75d-52bd-b1d0-10f3ea7b14ee.html

 

[cluciano63]

Thank you! After reading all the posts giving Sergio and Becky every shred of doubt, a post that I agree with.

Tucson police said this week that the case was considered an abduction. Some family members, along with most of the sex offenders in the area near the Celis home in the 5600 block of East 12th Street, have been eliminated as suspects, police said. Others, including Isabel's parents, have not been ruled out.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/sergio-celis-sister-urges-compassion-for-isa-s-family/article_df9cc706-5f2d-5cd5-9a3c-2f4f045407ad.html

TPD has ruled out some family, most of the RSO's but not Sergio and Becky. LE tries to rule out the family ASAP, so they can concentrate on ever widening circles away from the family. The fact that TPD has been unable to do so in this case speaks volumes. I am not on the fence on this, never have been, I believe that Sergio is guilty of a crime against his daughter. I believe that Becky is helping to cover said crime. No fence sitting for me.

Okay, so this says some people have been ruled out, including some family members but still not the parents.

So LE has ruled some people out? Some RSO's etc? That is good to know.

I don't believe posters should be made to feel bad if they have suspicions about the parents in this case, as the case is being directed by LE, who clearly is not able to move on from them. So as someone else said, it is not a case of people just wanting to blame the parents; LE is showing concern about them, IMO and I tend to follow LE unless I know it to be a completely incompetent and corrupt agency.

JMO

 

[Cheyne]

<respectfully snipped>

What is proof? And what is fact? The mere fact that we can link a statement to a respected MSM article or video doesn't necessarily mean that that makes the statement true without knowing the reliability of the source.

<respectfully snipped>

I'm not sure if I am just too much of a "global thinker" or if I'm on the verge of Alzheimer's . . . as I wonder if we have any real, indisputable facts available to us at all other than that sweet Isa is missing.

(Okay, gonna push that "Submit Reply" button now and pray I don't get a TO or too many tomatoes!) :couch:

The only facts that I have read about the night of Isabel's "disappearance" are:

1. The Celis family was together at the Little League games the night of the 20th. Verified by several unrelated people at the games.

2. A 911 call was placed by Sergio Celis at approx. 8 am on the 21st of April to report his child was abducted.

3. A 911 call was placed by Jr. Celis at approx. 8:10 am on the 21st of April to report his sister Isabel was missing.

4. Isabel Celis is missing from her home.

Other than that, what are the facts? If you believe (as I do) that her parents caused her "disappearance", then you can not trust anything they say about the night/morning in question. MSM can only report what the Celises, TPD, family or neighbors tell them. Just because someone states something does not make it true. That is part of what makes this case so difficult to understand. We are not working with many verifiable facts here.

 

[elmomom]

Is it happening in Tuscon too. I thought that was mostly happening in Phoenix but honestly I dont know about drug cartels. I live on the other side of the US and that is never in our news.

Unfortunately there's quite a bit of negative stereotyping that goes on around my area regarding Mexicans. I have mentioned this case to many people (I'm kind of known for being a True crime junkie and several friends always ask what I am following whenever they see me). I cannot tell you how quick people are here to jump to use the word cartel whenever anything involves a person with a Hispanic name and a crime. It has nothing to do with what is going on in border areas, I live in PENNSYLVANIA and it has everything to do with a undeniable over exposure to the hyped fear of drug cartel violence following Mexicans wherever they migrate... And it is my personal feeling that it is much like being kidded all the time about having relatives in the Mafia when you are of Italian descent. (which I am). But as I said previously, I don't think anyone here at WS has inferred cartel involvement based on the sole fact that this is a Hispanic family. It has just been my personal experience outside of WS.

 

[FrayedKnot]

What does that have to do with it?

Are you saying all people from Tucson are connected to the drug cartel?:waitasec:

Yes. Yes it is. That is what we are all saying. Because that could not possibly be a valid path to consider unless we all think people from Tucson are drug cartel criminals.

You caught us. God, it feels so good to finally confess! Yay!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mjskit]

JVM and NG have both stated that JM used to live with the family, but I don't know the time frame, and the links are back-thread.

Also, a poster on the HufPo site said the CPS charge in Dec. was about JM's drug use because he was living there at the time. Link back-thread.

His voice could have been one of the two male voices heard at 6:30 a.m.. Just my opinion and throwing it out there.

So if JM was the reason for the CPS call in December. Why? Doesn't he have a record of distributing drugs? Didn't he rave on FB about loving Isabel and had a lot of pictures of her? Did he have pictures of the boys on FB too?

Just wondering if JM is somehow involved. Even if only indirectly by showing whomever his weakness was Isabel.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

1. no.
2. yes IMO only-I have not done a study.
3. no, cps would not get involved for that reason alone, and certainly would not say they wanted sergio to leave the house.

It just shows how states are different I guess. If a minor teen was caught smoking pot by LE here in my state DFCS would be at the parents door.