AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[pieper4]

I... feel... so... alone... here... tonight. Teach me to keep odd hours with a languishing case, eh?

Happy Birthday, Starry!!! Hope it rocks completely!

 

[azmary]

Go, Pima County Assessor! LOL. What a mess. I can just about guarantee folks that house is not 3500-3800 square feet. No way, no how. There are FARs (floor area ratios) for homes to the lot size. As far as I can see looking at any/all sources, the stated square footage for that lot size would exceed residential FARs in that area. So I don't believe that any data on that particular home (including taxes) is to be taken at face value. Ooooohhh... maybe they have an underground bunker?!? <---joke. To break your brain, there's more on Tucson FAR formulas at http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/sites/default/files/planning/Complete%20LUC.pdf .

Oh they have serious issues let me tell you. I was being charged for a beautiful AZ room and double car parking. A shack that holds my washer and dryer with my hot water heater. Have to walk outside to get to it. I can fit one car under my carport. Sorry OT but unless you go down and fill them in they are liable to list anything they want.

 

[azmary]

Saw the Sheriff and K-9 Units out and about west of town today. Always makes me wonder if they are looking for little IC

 

[pieper4]

Oh they have serious issues let me tell you. I was being charged for a beautiful AZ room and double car parking. A shack that holds my washer and dryer with my hot water heater. Have to walk outside to get to it. I can fit one car under my carport. Sorry OT but unless you go down and fill them in they are liable to list anything they want.

I agree... that site/data is a mess. Shameful, really. They have my home with 300 square feet less than it has had since 2001(but the permit for the addition is there). They show a garage that never existed. I recently did a re-fi for rates and intended to appeal my taxes... until I saw the missing 300 sq. feet. LOL. Another property I co-own off Craycroft and River shows a floorplan not even in the Heatherwood Hills development. It belongs to the homes further North. I won't mention a condo I co-own on Golf Links... that's a real treat!

So yes, it is not a reliable site in any regard. What would you guesstimate the Celis home's square footage at? I'm going to say maybe 2300 -2500 tops.

 

[azmary]

I agree... that site/data is a mess. Shameful, really. They have my home with 300 square feet less than it has had since 2001(but the permit for the addition is there). They show a garage that never existed. I recently did a re-fi for rates and intended to appeal my taxes... until I saw the missing 300 sq. feet. LOL. Another property I co-own off Craycroft and River shows a floorplan not even in the Heatherwood Hills development. It belongs to the homes further North. I won't mention a condo I co-own on Golf Links... that's a real treat!

So yes, it is not a reliable site in any regard. What would you guesstimate the Celis home's square footage at? I'm going to say maybe 2300 -2500 tops.

I would say about 2300

 

[pieper4]

I would say about 2300

Thanks for your input. Yeah, the 3500+ just makes no sense for that neighborhood's parcel sizes. None. Despite being "4" bedroom (counting the den), it's a compact home.

 

[Whisperer]

I try to find all my houses in these cases on RedFin. It is an excellent real estate site. I think I saw that the house was around 2380 or so sq. ft. I don't recall if I got RedFin on the Celis house but I knew it wasn't 3800 sq ft.

It is a 4 bdrm; 3 bath house. How strict are they with codes out there in AZ. years ago in Belmont, people were remodeling and not getting permits. The homes reflected exactly what they were supposed to be on record and they could not advertize their improvements till it was registered with the city and approved.

So some sites listings look very different from what the owners say they have.

 

[pieper4]

I try to find all my houses in these cases on RedFin. It is an excellent real estate site. I think I saw that the house was around 2380 or so sq. ft. I don't recall if I got RedFin on the Celis house but I knew it wasn't 3800 sq ft.

It is a 4 bdrm; 3 bath house. How strict are they with codes out there in AZ. years ago in Belmont, people were remodeling and not getting permits. The homes reflected exactly what they were supposed to be on record and they could not advertize their improvements till it was registered with the city and approved.

So some sites listings look very different from what the owners say they have.

The Celis home was new construction in ~2005/6. So it's probable that it totally conformed to code since it's in a small pocket of "fill" homes built at the time. It doesn't look like any permits were pulled post-build. Those lots are not very large. The videos, photos, etc. show how small the yards are. I would *guess* that property is about 1/4 of an acre at most. But once again, the online records here are not very helpful. They don't even list a block or tract number. Ugh.

 

[FrayedKnot]

LOL! That's it, pieper4!

Ima bet Sergio's won't turn red too fast! JMO

 

[FrayedKnot]

I am blessed. My lawyer in NY has been doing a layaway plan with me for over 18 years! (I have the most spiteful, ignorant EX on the planet who continued to file against me well after my youngest kids turned 21!). I only owe the layaway lawyer $8700 more. <kill me now>

But really, many/if not most people who have a first offense will take a PD. Especially if they've been told it is going to be an easy "let off"...

Hey! We can get YOU one a them thermometer thingies! PieperThon!

 

[FrayedKnot]

Lands at will.

Unless that was his residence at the time. Not saying if it was or was not, but it's certainly a possibility.

But I agree (and have since day 1). He screams loser in my mind.

Okay, dumb question alert!

But what qualifies as being an "official" residence? Just giving out an address?

Whenever I move from state to state (not on the lam, lol), I have never had to show a utility bill or mortgage info in order to get my new driver license. However, oddly enough, I did have to show proof for my library card!

If I were just flopping at a relative's house and got pinched, would the relative's address that I gave police be considered my official residence, however temporarily?

This sort of thing seems kind of arbitrary, but VERY important in this case as there has been a ton of speculation about JM ever 'living' at the Celis home.

TIA and sorry for the babbling post. I need more coffee!

 

[Patty G]

if they went to the address he had given the court reporter when he did his paperwork, then yes they would have attempted to serve him his warrant at the celis home since that is the address they had on file for him at the time.

How do you know that the Celis address is on the paperwork?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Ler's light a candle and think positive thoughts that Isa is found soon!

Speaking of lighting candles, do any locals notice yellow ribbons around Tucson in hopes of Isabel's prompt return? Many have mentioned all of the flyers/posters, but I don't recall anyone mentioning yellow ribbons.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Hey I'm just the messenger!

Hope you didn't take my post as snark at you - it wasn't meant personally. I just don't like the implication that hiring a lawyer means anything regarding guilt or innocence. Thanks for relaying the info!

I believe this family should have hired counsel a while ago - or at the very least, when CPS came to them with the voluntary no contact order. I am baffled that it's only now being floated that they are looking at counsel. I really hope that the delay in consulting with someone hasn't hurt the case.

 

[white rabbit]

http://www.knst.com/cc-common/gallery/photos.html?album_id=316892&p=19086953#/20/19086977

picture #21 shows the menu of items and suggested donations. note 'bring isa home' is the recipient of the money...so i guess as we stated yesterday, the bringisahome website is the official one. right?

 

[winterrose]

http://www.knst.com/cc-common/gallery/photos.html?album_id=316892&p=19086953#/20/19086977

picture #21 shows the menu of items and suggested donations. note 'bring isa home' is the recipient of the money...so i guess as we stated yesterday, the bringisahome website is the official one. right?

That's the official one made by the volunteers where they take donations, and the center where RC works also set up an a/c, plus the Find Isa one takes donations. The article yesterday said the Celis organization sent purple balloons for the school to send off. I'm not sure if this is another organization the family has created or one of the other two. First time I ever heard of the Celis organization.

 

[Prof]

I agree... that site/data is a mess. Shameful, really. They have my home with 300 square feet less than it has had since 2001(but the permit for the addition is there). They show a garage that never existed. I recently did a re-fi for rates and intended to appeal my taxes... until I saw the missing 300 sq. feet. LOL. Another property I co-own off Craycroft and River shows a floorplan not even in the Heatherwood Hills development. It belongs to the homes further North. I won't mention a condo I co-own on Golf Links... that's a real treat!

So yes, it is not a reliable site in any regard. What would you guesstimate the Celis home's square footage at? I'm going to say maybe 2300 -2500 tops.

They have what I believe to be a more accurate floor ...sketch ... under
"Images: PRC, Maps, Photos" on the lot entry information. It is a link at the top center of the parcel detail. Click that and then "plan" to find it.
Here's the link to the more accurate plan.
http://www.asr.co.pima.az.us/web_images/asrt/PUBLIC/APEX/DATA/12803/0990-1.JPG

 

[LisaB]

Respectfully <snipped> I can understand the noise issue, but when the Celis family moved into their home, Isabel was an infant or hadn't been born yet. Wouldn't her parents have wanted her much closer to them so they would hear her during the night and be able to get to her quickly? By the time they moved into the house, the older boy would not have needed to be close to his parents room, and he and the younger brother were old enough that they didn't require care during the night. :moo:

DH and my empty-nester abode is a ranch style home that isn't as large as the Celis'. It's possible that our hearing is going, but we can't talk to one another unless we're in the same room. If I'm in the master bedroom/bath, I can't hear DH if he's in the kitchen on the other side of the house nor can he hear me.

FYI
"When she moved in, she was in a stroller" (David Pike, neighbor)

 

[LisaB]

Maybe that wouldn't be so strange if Sergio was the one who put her to
bed in that room himself!

In an earlier thread (hope somebody else remembers this), it was said that
after the baseball game the night before--- Sergio and Isa stayed behind
to "help clean up". That, in its self, sounded strange at the time.

But if true, perhaps Becky and the boys got home, had their showers and
went to bed. Do we know what time Sergio got home with Isa?

Becky does say she braided Isa's hair that night, yet Sergio says she was
tired and went to bed. Who knows, but it could be true that the boys were
already settled down and Isa didn't have a chance to go to their room.

Mea culpa.

A LONG time ago, in a thread as old as time itself, we were bounching around the possibility that SINCE Sergio had stayed late, they MIGHT have brought 2 cars, and somehow, the boys could have ridden home with their mom, while Isa stayed with Dad, who somehow thought she had left with the others. That was a THEORY (and a wild one) suggesting that he could have arrived home to find the family asleep, gone to bed himself without looking in the bedrooms, and assumed Isabel was in bed when she had somehow been left behind or abducted from the park.

It was a silly suggestion, but there is nothing to support it. We do not know how many vehicles they took, or whether they all left together (or in what combinations) and there is no reason to believe that Isabel never made it home from the park.

 

[~n/t~]

Hope you didn't take my post as snark at you - it wasn't meant personally. I just don't like the implication that hiring a lawyer means anything regarding guilt or innocence. Thanks for relaying the info!

I believe this family should have hired counsel a while ago - or at the very least, when CPS came to them with the voluntary no contact order. I am baffled that it's only now being floated that they are looking at counsel. I really hope that the delay in consulting with someone hasn't hurt the case.

Even Marc Klaas said on NG last night that SC should get an attorney.