AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

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GutFeeling! said:
There would certainly be prints on the drawers. I was just reading and understanding people were talking about the top - may have misunderstood.
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I think you got it right.. the report said "dresser top" and "mirror attached to dresser."
 

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Just a thought about SC and CPS…with his stating initially (911 call) that this was an "abduction" and later ransom(?). Could it be that he is telling (feeding) LE that there are people after him and that if he goes around his sons they will harm them/take them too?
That could be looked at a couple of ways…that it is something he is making up to cover up, or believes to be true, or is true. Again just a random thought to throw out there and MOO.

Personally I think the boys said something to LE that lead to this no contact situation. (lots of thoughts on that too but will hold off for now!) And we won't know until that info is disclosed to the public...
 
buggsmom said:
Just a thought about SC and CPS…with his stating initially (911 call) that this was an "abduction" and later ransom(?). Could it be that he is telling (feeding) LE that there are people after him and that if he goes around his sons they will harm them/take them too?
That could be looked at a couple of ways…that it is something he is making up to cover up, or believes to be true, or is true. Again just a random thought to throw out there and MOO.

Personally I think the boys said something to LE that lead to this no contact situation. (lots of thoughts on that too but will hold off for now!) And we won't know until that info is disclosed to the public...
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BBM - No, you can't request a no contact, CPS has to have reason to put one in place. If that were the case imo his only option would be to leave voluntarily.

IMO someone spoke to LE about SC losing it - starting to break down, mentioned having yelled at the boys in a moment or lashed out. Either that or drugs found in the blood tests taken about 12 days earlier.

ETA - doesn't have to be street drugs either - prescription meds being abused is reason too
 
Along with wanting to know more information...it would be nice to have a video tour of the house... like with Lisa Irwin's in the home layout, seeing where the bed was and wine box on the counter. Also with Ayla Reynolds, home photos were found online that could be viewed and piece together what that layout was like. (since they were both reported as being taken from their rooms while the family slept)

Seems like we are left with just our searching, speculating, guessing, waiting and hoping she is found soon.
 
GutFeeling! said:
BBM - No, you can't request a no contact, CPS has to have reason to put one in place. If that were the case imo his only option would be to leave voluntarily.

IMO someone spoke to LE about SC losing it - starting to break down, mentioned having yelled at the boys in a moment or lashed out. Either that or drugs found in the blood tests taken about 12 days earlier.

ETA - doesn't have to be street drugs either - prescription meds being abused is reason too
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In my experience I have never seen a no contact order on a parent unless there was serious abuse, usually sexual abuse,but it could also include physical abuse and/or verbal abuse. Drug use/alcohol abuse does not mean a no contact order. MOO Have taken kids to visit parents in rehab. Parents would be allowed phone calls (monitored) and emails (monitored) and letters (monitored). Also,convicted murderers can have supervised visitation with their kids. As long as there is NO history of serious and sustained abuse...

This particular NCO is very strange...MOO And also extremely stressful for the two remaining kids...Just MO
 
luvmydogs said:
Turns out this is a family, the Butwins, from the Phoenix area who had been reported missing. It appears they were going through a bitter divorce.

Sometimes I feel we are starting to feel that all these point to cartel activity. I think most are, but we are starting to be quick to point to the cartel. Even the dumb sheriff of Pinal County made the claim before knowing the facts. Sickening the fear they are generating in our community!


http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/1...psies-fail-to-id-5-burned-bodies-in-az-desert

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/1...cartel-to-five-bodies-found-in-burned-out-car
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You are so right there, LMD! I saw it on the news last night, and just read your post. (I'm way behind at this point!) I actually thought I had heard the Border Patrol had been chasing them when I last posted... maybe I mixed stories!

While I agree that media, and me are perhaps too quick to blame the cartel, and it DOES make things scary, I honestly think there is a lot more cartel stuff going on that what hits the news. I am involved with the Latino community and I see things that never make the news. I don't mean I observedactual incidents, but I have spoken to people who have had scary things happen to them.

However, so much happens, so often, I think many people are a little on edge these days.

I wish Isa would turn up and justice be served SOON!

P.S. About the rosary - and this may sound defamatory, but it is not intended to be. I know no one who knows how to say the rosary - even I have forgotten much of it. Yet rosaries are still kept as religious symbols. Many people in Mexico and Latin America mix Catholicism and indigenous beliefs, and over the years, the two are melded together, often with no distinction as to what is what. Consider La Santisima Muerte, or Santa Muerte, a fictitious saint. This pagan symbol was resurrected from ancient Aztecs, yet is the so called "Patron Saint" of the Mexican cartel. Cartel burn candles, and offer liquor and food on altars built for this "saint" for protection!
 
liz b. said:
In my experience I have never seen a no contact order on a parent unless there was serious abuse, usually sexual abuse,but it could also include physical abuse and/or verbal abuse. Drug use/alcohol abuse does not mean a no contact order. MOO Have taken kids to visit parents in rehab. Parents would be allowed phone calls (monitored) and emails (monitored) and letters (monitored). Also,convicted murderers can have supervised visitation with their kids. As long as there is NO history of serious and sustained abuse...

This particular NCO is very strange...MOO And also extremely stressful for the two remaining kids...Just MO
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In all due respect, I am not giving an opinion here - I am giving a FACT. This just happened to my grandson's mother. There was no sexual abuse at all (not even thought of) No abuse, as far as physical, at all. There was NO contact by phone, no photos, no visitation at all - LIVED it, didn't think it up. No mail - nothing, zilch, zip, nada.
 
And just to add to that when she called around here with the police in toe and the paperwork saying she did have custody (because that doesn't change until a court decides - it is voluntary) CPS decided to start the 30 days again - every time he did it the date changed until she could see him.
 
After giving the matter more thought : one reason I can think of for the NCO on SC would be if one or both kids had a diagnosed mental illness, or if one or both of them were developmentally delayed, and thus unable to process the events going on around them. If SC had been yelling, and not coping well emotionally,or using drugs in front of them, CPS might well believe that it is seriously detrimental to the emotional health of the child,or children...

It still does not really make sense though, because of the not being able to even send a letter,or a card, or an email...JMO
 
IIRC, that no contact order was put in place due to something that LE learned in the course of the investigation and forwarded it to the attention of CPS. Obviously CPS had already been involved in the case from the start, but IMO it seems that LE discovered or was notified about the info first. If true, it leads me to believe it was something learned in an interview or a tip. IMO, there's a good chance that SC threatened the boys into being quiet. Perhaps while LE was interviewing them, something slipped out and out of fear, whichever boy slipped, told LE that dad had threatened him. Either that or when they returned to school, still devastated and confused about their little sister's disappearance, mentioned something to a counselor or teacher about dad.


There needs to be a break in this case very soon. I would, as well as all you, love more than anything else, for this little girl to be found alive and unharmed.
 
cluelessinNY said:
IIRC, that no contact order was put in place due to something that LE learned in the course of the investigation and forwarded it to the attention of CPS. Obviously CPS had already been involved in the case from the start, but IMO it seems that LE discovered or was notified about the info first. If true, it leads me to believe it was something learned in an interview or a tip. IMO, there's a good chance that SC threatened the boys into being quiet. Perhaps while LE was interviewing them, something slipped out and out of fear, whichever boy slipped, told LE that dad had threatened him. Either that or when they returned to school, still devastated and confused about their little sister's disappearance, mentioned something to a counselor or teacher about dad.


There needs to be a break in this case very soon. I would, as well as all you, love more than anything else, for this little girl to be found alive and unharmed.
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I thought of that too (and a dozen other things) but always came to the conclusion that that would be a police matter (for the criminal aspect) and not CPS.
 
GutFeeling! said:
LOL I give up
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I hear (not literally) what you are saying, thank you for sharing your direct knowledge
icon7.gif
 
GutFeeling! said:
In all due respect, I am not giving an opinion here - I am giving a FACT. This just happened to my grandson's mother. There was no sexual abuse at all (not even thought of) No abuse, as far as physical, at all. There was NO contact by phone, no photos, no visitation at all - LIVED it, didn't think it up. No mail - nothing, zilch, zip, nada.
Click to expand...

I hear you. I was a foster parent to children with serious emotional issues for 20 plus years. In more than 1 state." I lived " it too. And I did state " in my experience " in my post ? And, based on my experience, what I posted is almost always the case for NCOs. Respectfully, unless you have read the CPS file of your grandson's mother, you MAY not have all the facts ? Just some thought, and MOO

JMO
 
I have looked online for the video clip from KGUN 9 and am unable to locate it. The information about the graffiti was reported again this morning. They said that the police went to the Celis home because of graffiti on their car, their wall and their neighbor's home.

I have noticed lots of graffiti in the alleyway, the street signs and the trashcans near their home.
 

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